Random Thoughts

[CoreySamson]

An observation about the state of the forum:

- It feels like as I start doing more and more roadgeeking stuff the forum has gotten less interesting. Most of the new topics are seemingly off-topic. The only main topics I'm excited to read anymore are construction projects and road trips. I don't know if the perception is skewed because of Poiponen, but the forum has honestly been a little boring since he left. Not saying I want Poiponen back (certainly not!) but I do think the trend is interesting. Maybe it's just because I have just matured a bit since I joined.

Too much of the hobby is tied to Numbered Routes and limited access corridors.  Most state highway systems (especially freeways) have been farmed and cataloged numerous times over by almost every major highway page.

All the best stuff I do nowadays is outside the State Highway Systems (especially in California).  I think the Bakersfield meet was a hit because it offered several things different than just State Routes (namely Alfred Harrell Highway and Caliente-Bodfish Road).  There is always something new and interesting to find if one is adventurous enough to seek it out.

To be clear, I'm not saying that roadgeeking has become less interesting (in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth for me). I've been clinching a ton of new stuff lately and generally having a lot of fun clinching things. I'm only saying that the forum is not as fun as it used to be.

[Max Rockatansky]

An observation about the state of the forum:

- It feels like as I start doing more and more roadgeeking stuff the forum has gotten less interesting. Most of the new topics are seemingly off-topic. The only main topics I'm excited to read anymore are construction projects and road trips. I don't know if the perception is skewed because of Poiponen, but the forum has honestly been a little boring since he left. Not saying I want Poiponen back (certainly not!) but I do think the trend is interesting. Maybe it's just because I have just matured a bit since I joined.

Too much of the hobby is tied to Numbered Routes and limited access corridors.  Most state highway systems (especially freeways) have been farmed and cataloged numerous times over by almost every major highway page.

All the best stuff I do nowadays is outside the State Highway Systems (especially in California).  I think the Bakersfield meet was a hit because it offered several things different than just State Routes (namely Alfred Harrell Highway and Caliente-Bodfish Road).  There is always something new and interesting to find if one is adventurous enough to seek it out.

To be clear, I'm not saying that roadgeeking has become less interesting (in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth for me). I've been clinching a ton of new stuff lately and generally having a lot of fun clinching things. I'm only saying that the forum is not as fun as it used to be.

A lot of the traffic that was once on this forum probably has moved to other social media platforms.  For example, road groups on Facebook took off this last decade.  Those groups tend to be more varied and be more approachable for the average person to join. 

The (unavoidable) change in forum layout probably wasn't a help.  A fair amount of long time people never came back after the forum was down for so much time.  A couple others I recall not being fans of the new layout.

[hotdogPi]

Since March 20, there has been no way for new members to join other than by emailing the admins, which has cut down registrations by almost 90%. If this doesn't get fixed, the forum will slowly die.

Apparently post-upgrade any "registration problems" board would get a lot of spam, but they could still do what I did if it was enabled: register through the website and then email the admins if I don't get approved the first time (which most people wouldn't need to do).

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=mlist;sort=registered;start=0;desc

[Max Rockatansky]

Honestly I prefer a leaner forum that requires some form of entry vetting.  Since P13 and MMM were mopped up things have been pretty tidy on here.

[jeffandnicole]

An observation about the state of the forum:

- It feels like as I start doing more and more roadgeeking stuff the forum has gotten less interesting. Most of the new topics are seemingly off-topic. The only main topics I'm excited to read anymore are construction projects and road trips. I don't know if the perception is skewed because of Poiponen, but the forum has honestly been a little boring since he left. Not saying I want Poiponen back (certainly not!) but I do think the trend is interesting. Maybe it's just because I have just matured a bit since I joined.

Too much of the hobby is tied to Numbered Routes and limited access corridors.  Most state highway systems (especially freeways) have been farmed and cataloged numerous times over by almost every major highway page.

All the best stuff I do nowadays is outside the State Highway Systems (especially in California).  I think the Bakersfield meet was a hit because it offered several things different than just State Routes (namely Alfred Harrell Highway and Caliente-Bodfish Road).  There is always something new and interesting to find if one is adventurous enough to seek it out.

To be clear, I'm not saying that roadgeeking has become less interesting (in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth for me). I've been clinching a ton of new stuff lately and generally having a lot of fun clinching things. I'm only saying that the forum is not as fun as it used to be.

A lot of the traffic that was once on this forum probably has moved to other social media platforms.  For example, road groups on Facebook took off this last decade.  Those groups tend to be more varied and be more approachable for the average person to join. 

The reason I like this board is the autonomy from the rest of my life. Sure, there's no secret of who I am on here, but I can post here with like-minded people, rather than posting on Facebook where many more people that don't care about roads will see it.


I also see what's going on elsewhere with little effort, if I care to look. On FB, it's generally all or nothing, and I'm on too many groups to begin with now.

[Max Rockatansky]

I liked that too when I joined.  But back then I was trying to hide this profile from my then girlfriend who was overly paranoid about anything I did on social media.  Once that relationship ended early in my forum tenure that concern over remaining anonymous abated. 

Some of the problems with Facebook groups:

-  A lot of the big groups have a lot of fluff and hyperbole.  Things like BuceesJim stuff and the "panic" related posts pertaining to things like the Key Bridge gets old fast.
-  There are a lot of niche groups that are too small and just suck in general.  A couple set up by our page I'd argue have begun to fall into this category and probably could be deleted.   
-  The rule set tends to widely vary and range from to non-existent to overly anal.  Over moderation has killed some groups like Historic US Highway 99. 

[Rothman]

An observation about the state of the forum:

- It feels like as I start doing more and more roadgeeking stuff the forum has gotten less interesting. Most of the new topics are seemingly off-topic. The only main topics I'm excited to read anymore are construction projects and road trips. I don't know if the perception is skewed because of Poiponen, but the forum has honestly been a little boring since he left. Not saying I want Poiponen back (certainly not!) but I do think the trend is interesting. Maybe it's just because I have just matured a bit since I joined.

You have joined the matured ranks.  AARoads is developing a reputation that there's too much chaff amongst the wheat to stay actively involved on here. 

Although I make a snarky post on here or two, I do actually spend most of my time reading the good posts and discussions about ongoing construction projects.  That's why it has become so frustrating to scroll through posts outside of Fictional Highways where less-knowledgable people start spouting about how we need Interstates everywhere or five-level stack interchanges everywhere or reading control cities like tea leaves, etc., etc.  There has to be a balance between keeping gatekeeping down (despite our tendency to love gatekeeping, myself included) and maintaining the quality of the forum.

You can already see participation by expert roadgeeks on here waning over the last few years, while a few of us still endure.  It's hard for me to not see the solution as having a more rigid barrier between the real stuff and fictional/off-topic material.  That's unfortunately a symptom of the forum's design, where you have to sift through the good and the bad in the unread post list without an ability to filter out boards (e.g., Fictional).  When the complaint is that you have to plow through the chaff, then making that process easier is the solution.

And then you have the thankfully very few posters on here that treat the number of responses to their topics has a feather in their cap...

Eh, this is enough of a ramble on a lazy Sunday morning.

[Max Rockatansky]

I still maintain that this forum would be better off without the Fictional board.  I'm honestly not sure why there is a need to cater to that posting demographic when it has consistently been a failure or source of problems.

[Rothman]

I still maintain that this forum would be better off without the Fictional board.  I'm honestly not sure why there is a need to cater to that posting demographic when it has consistently been a failure or source of problems.

They'd just post threads and become a moderator's headache.

[Max Rockatansky]

I still maintain that this forum would be better off without the Fictional board.  I'm honestly not sure why there is a need to cater to that posting demographic when it has consistently been a failure or source of problems.

They'd just post threads and become a moderator's headache.

But they could actually "be moderated" on actual boards.  MMM and P13 were examples of getting away with hiding (mostly) on Fictional.

[ZLoth]

It feels like as I start doing more and more roadgeeking stuff the forum has gotten less interesting. Most of the new topics are seemingly off-topic. The only main topics I'm excited to read anymore are construction projects and road trips.

I blame this on "social media fatigue", and it extends across multiple forums and social media systems. Some of this is related to the discord related to the current politics, and I've seen too many people go FTS and subsequently go radio silent. It takes effort to participate in the forums like this, and some people aren't seeing the cost-benefit ratio that they saw in the past. Of course, life and people's circumstances change.

[webny99]

I still maintain that this forum would be better off without the Fictional board.  I'm honestly not sure why there is a need to cater to that posting demographic when it has consistently been a failure or source of problems.

They'd just post threads and become a moderator's headache.

But they could actually "be moderated" on actual boards.  MMM and P13 were examples of getting away with hiding (mostly) on Fictional.

Honestly the best solution is to just ignore their content in the fictional board. Continuously engaging with it is what causes the majority of problems.

[SEWIGuy]

To be honest, there is only so much to talk about. Some of the topics on the General board just aren't that interesting, and the state boards have conversations about projects that only deserve a handful of posts. The fictional board drives traffic, but most people aren't all that interested in anything besides their own vanity projects.

[Max Rockatansky]

I still maintain that this forum would be better off without the Fictional board.  I'm honestly not sure why there is a need to cater to that posting demographic when it has consistently been a failure or source of problems.

They'd just post threads and become a moderator's headache.

But they could actually "be moderated" on actual boards.  MMM and P13 were examples of getting away with hiding (mostly) on Fictional.

Honestly the best solution is to just ignore their content in the fictional board. Continuously engaging with it is what causes the majority of problems.

And those offending people stayed in there universally when?  FritzOwl is the only who managed to stay fully on the Fictional board.  P13 and MMM would hide there only once the coast was clear from getting in trouble on real boards. 

[vdeane]

I don't know if the perception is skewed because of Poiponen, but the forum has honestly been a little boring since he left.

That's probably because 50% of the posts on the forum were either him or responses to him while he was around - or some ridiculously large percentage.  I'm fairly happen that checking the forum now takes a lot less time with him gone (although this also means that it's not as good of a "check by when randomly bored" site as it used to be).  MMM was the same way.

Maybe it's just because I have just matured a bit since I joined.

Quite possibly.  This forum used to have a large "bored teenager" contingent that drove post volume by quite a bit.  They've since either matured or moved on.

But they could actually "be moderated" on actual boards.  MMM and P13 were examples of getting away with hiding (mostly) on Fictional.

The trouble is, how do you come up with a rule that takes out the MMM/P13 type stuff while keeping more serious fictional discussion that's actually interesting to read (like the Thruway exit 31 thread)?  It would probably have to be "no fictional", and the line between speculation and fictional is thinner than we'd like.

It takes effort to participate in the forums like this, and some people aren't seeing the cost-benefit ratio that they saw in the past. Of course, life and people's circumstances change.

That it does.  I estimate it takes me around 2-4 hours/day (combined) to do my daily forum and Facebook checks.  Not everyone has that kind of time.  It's actually one of the challengers I have when traveling - how to keep up when I have less computer time available and not leave an insurmountable mountain for when I get back.

I suspect this is why a lot of the veteran roadgeeks are gone - they've started families, gotten other hobbies, etc. and don't have that kind of time any more.

[Max Rockatansky]

To me the difference between serious posters and stuff like P13/MMM seems obvious.  That's part of the problem as I see it, there seems to be difficulty moderation in the grey area.  FWIW even though I'm not a fan of his ideas typically I would lump K12 as a serious fictional poster.

[mgk920]

And for good measure, this classic...

That ad was soooo brilliant on so many different levels.... About the same time there was also an 'NFL' themed one where in the locker room before the team went out to the field, the head coach called all of the players and assistant coaches together for a pregame prayer session.  He then said that so no possible faith would be overlooked, a separate religious leader for each would be called in to offer a prayer and then showed the line of such leaders assembling.  'Not going anywhere for a while?'.  I have not been able to find a clip of that one on line.

Mike

[formulanone]

But they could actually "be moderated" on actual boards.  MMM and P13 were examples of getting away with hiding (mostly) on Fictional.

The trouble is, how do you come up with a rule that takes out the MMM/P13 type stuff while keeping more serious fictional discussion that's actually interesting to read (like the Thruway exit 31 thread)?  It would probably have to be "no fictional", and the line between speculation and fictional is thinner than we'd like.

The serious answer is that any Original Poster should not get to constantly create new threads, fishing around for attention, until the initial thread has been "mostly satisfied" with answers. This will vary a bit, but if you're creating the thread, there should be some bit input by the OP into the discussion. If it's an open-ended discussion, simmer down and let the conversation flow before trying to create multiple new threads. So something like one a week should honestly suffice for most users and in most cases. How that's to be determined is by moderation staff; we aren't an especially large forum so something also has to keep the momentum going for new and existing user interest. Letting users constantly create new threads is like shouting at the librarian for all the answers rather than looking through the material, even with the present technology to quickly find abstracts and excerpts, and fall deep into a hobby you're supposedly interested in; whether gather answers for a few moments' time or for many years to come.

Either a user is new to the hobby, and should do some bit of research to answer most questions (some are naturally going to appear), or they're just looking for attention. The crazier the responses, the greater chance the OP will either disappear (if they were actually serious, and now has their feelings hurt) or will just keep going to the crazy well, as users just feed that constant urge from the OP. Sometimes there's a lack of restraint from just a few users which is enough to keep stoking the ego of bad actors or troublemakers.

Roadgeekteen and tolbs17 went through a massive phase of just creating multiple new threads just to get attention. The former created a few with longevity but sometimes I think he just wanted his "name" on a bunch of threads. The latter just wanted every petty grievance answered and several users just gives into that instead of ignoring it after a while. And 2-3 others that just trolled everyone with garbage. Ignore the crazies and it mostly takes care of itself; either disappearance by discontent or implosion by non-adherence to rules. If you give attention to the clowns you're guaranteed a circus.

[hotdogPi]

So something like one a week should honestly suffice for most users and in most cases.

Max Rockatansky averages slightly more than two new threads per week, but they're legitimate. Many of them have very few or even zero replies.

[formulanone]

So something like one a week should honestly suffice for most users and in most cases.

Max Rockatansky averages slightly more than two new threads per week, but they're legitimate. Many of them have very few or even zero replies.

You're angling for outliers, usable and related content is fine.

It's the "What's you're favorite type of urinal cake" followed up by "What's your least favorite flavor of urinal cake", and the subsequent "Fantasy urinal cake flavors?" threads that really stir things up, usually for the worse.

I think I need a Snickers bar...

[webny99]

Honestly the best solution is to just ignore their content in the fictional board. Continuously engaging with it is what causes the majority of problems.

And those offending people stayed in there universally when?  FritzOwl is the only who managed to stay fully on the Fictional board.  P13 and MMM would hide there only once the coast was clear from getting in trouble on real boards. 

If/when the nonsense posting does spill over to other boards, I still think the principle of ignoring it unless the discussion is worthwhile should apply.

Having been a young and immature poster in the not too distant past, I have learned the hard way that posting strictly for attention always creates drama and invites the wrong kind of attention. And I now have great respect for longtime users who simply did not engage on petty/trivial matters and made me earn their respect and engagement by making thoughtful contributions to the forum.

These days I try to ask myself "Is posting this a good use of my time, and will reading it be worth other's time?" before posting. I've made a few mistakes in judgment, to be sure, but on more than one occasion I've decided the answer to that question is "No", simply closed the post window and moved on, and I expect and invite others to do the same.

[vdeane]

These days I try to ask myself "Is posting this a good use of my time, and will reading it be worth other's time?" before posting. I've made a few mistakes in judgment, to be sure, but on more than one occasion I've decided the answer to that question is "No", simply closed the post window and moved on, and I expect and invite others to do the same.

I feel like this also works as a resolution to the "do I bump the ancient thread or start a new one" dilemma.

[SEWIGuy]

Either a user is new to the hobby, and should do some bit of research to answer most questions (some are naturally going to appear), or they're just looking for attention. The crazier the responses, the greater chance the OP will either disappear (if they were actually serious, and now has their feelings hurt) or will just keep going to the crazy well, as users just feed that constant urge from the OP. Sometimes there's a lack of restraint from just a few users which is enough to keep stoking the ego of bad actors or troublemakers.

I don't think it is a reasonable expectation that people new to the community should search out the answer rather than simply ask a question. Forums by their nature are dynamic, and many of them engage in banter back and forth. If you want to invite new people to participate, you have to realize that they are going to come with "newbie" related questions - referring them to a topic where this was discussed back in 2019 isn't always welcoming or helpful.

[Max Rockatansky]

I tend to see that as less of a big deal given the search feature isn't the most user friendly.  That said, anyone should be able to find stuff like the million control city threads we have.

[webny99]

Either a user is new to the hobby, and should do some bit of research to answer most questions (some are naturally going to appear), or they're just looking for attention. The crazier the responses, the greater chance the OP will either disappear (if they were actually serious, and now has their feelings hurt) or will just keep going to the crazy well, as users just feed that constant urge from the OP. Sometimes there's a lack of restraint from just a few users which is enough to keep stoking the ego of bad actors or troublemakers.

I don't think it is a reasonable expectation that people new to the community should search out the answer rather than simply ask a question. Forums by their nature are dynamic, and many of them engage in banter back and forth. If you want to invite new people to participate, you have to realize that they are going to come with "newbie" related questions - referring them to a topic where this was discussed back in 2019 isn't always welcoming or helpful.

That is fair too, but I think the larger point (in my understanding) was:

(1) Ask the question once and wait for it to be answered before asking it again repeatedly.
(2) If you do need to ask again, follow up, or clarify, use the existing thread and don't pepper the forum with multiple threads about the same topic.