Minor things that bother you

[1995hoo]

That December 5 is not a huge 'bar holiday' here in Wisconsin.  Why December 5?  On 1933-12-05 (yea, this upcoming one will be the 91st anniversary of it) Utah (of all states) put the 21st Amendment over the top, repealing the 18th Amendment and Prohibition of beverage alcohol. 



Mike

Utah being the state is somewhat less remarkable than it might otherwise seem if you consider the historical oddity that the Twenty-First Amendment was the only one ratified by conventions in the states, rather than by state legislatures. Article V allows Congress to select either mode of ratification (see below) and repealing Prohibition was the only time they've ever selected conventions. It's generally understood that the reason for selecting conventions was to avoid dry-state legislatures that were in thrall to the temperance lobby. (Of course, Article V doesn't define "conventions." New Mexico now has a statute saying that the members of the state legislature would be the delegates to any such convention if Congress ever prescribes that method again.)

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

[hbelkins]

Why is driving the one "right" we grant at 16 and not 18?

Because that's also the legal working age most places and parents get sick of driving their kids everywhere.

Are there still states that license drivers at 14 or 15? There were when I was growing up. And I think there were states that also used to have limits of 17 or 18.

It's like the age of consent for you-know-what. Different states have different guidelines. I'd hate to see the federal government regulate the driving age or the age of consent for you-know-what the same way it did the drinking age.

[JayhawkCO]

Why is driving the one "right" we grant at 16 and not 18?

Because that's also the legal working age most places and parents get sick of driving their kids everywhere.

Are there still states that license drivers at 14 or 15? There were when I was growing up. And I think there were states that also used to have limits of 17 or 18.

It's like the age of consent for you-know-what. Different states have different guidelines. I'd hate to see the federal government regulate the driving age or the age of consent for you-know-what the same way it did the drinking age.

According to this page (not claiming it's 100% accurate) - https://www.parents.com/driving-age-by-state-8607683, no states give out full licenses under the age of 16, but a few states will allow restricted licenses (ID, MT, NM, ND, SC, SD)

[ZLoth]

For the state of California, the minimum age is 15½ for a learners permit and 16 for a provisional driving license. However, there are some additional requirements including minimum supervised driving, how long before you can have friends in the car, and so on, that some teenagers are going FTS, I'll waiting until I'm eighteen to get my license.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/educational-materials/fast-facts/provisional-licensing-ffdl-19/

[SEWIGuy]

Because we built this country to be so car-dependent, the absence of a license feels like government tyranny. Building better cities helps take a lot of the burden off, but we definitely still need stricter standards for issuing and renewing licenses, at all ages.

It would be highly unpopular, but short of forcing everyone to drive around with speed governors and semi-automated gizmos, upping the standards to something even halfway as thorough as Germany's would be a great start. Treat driving with the proper seriousness, make drivers train and test in all sorts of weather conditions and environments (not just a few suburban blocks) before even letting them think about driving off the lot.

Yeah no thanks. It was great when my kids got their liscense at 16 and I didn't have to haul them around. Only one of them got in a fender bender (with a parked car) that was their fault.

[Max Rockatansky]

For the state of California, the minimum age is 15½ for a learners permit and 16 for a provisional driving license. However, there are some additional requirements including minimum supervised driving, how long before you can have friends in the car, and so on, that some teenagers are going FTS, I'll waiting until I'm eighteen to get my license.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/educational-materials/fast-facts/provisional-licensing-ffdl-19/

That's assumes the parents are cool with getting a license being optional.  My oldest niece was told it isn't an option.

[SSOWorld]

You almost have to wrap battery powered Christmas lights around you to get noticed walking on the road at night nowadays.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've found it better to not be noticed.  There is always that whole awkward lurching forward thing people do at night if they see you in a crosswalk at stop signs.  I rather they California Stop and keep on going without knowing I'm there. 

Granted, I'm generally out in the pedestrian world while I'm out running.  That extra speed makes a significant difference versus walking (especially with Jaywalking).  I don't wear any lights or reflective devices.

[noelbotevera]

Because we built this country to be so car-dependent, the absence of a license feels like government tyranny. Building better cities helps take a lot of the burden off, but we definitely still need stricter standards for issuing and renewing licenses, at all ages.

It would be highly unpopular, but short of forcing everyone to drive around with speed governors and semi-automated gizmos, upping the standards to something even halfway as thorough as Germany's would be a great start. Treat driving with the proper seriousness, make drivers train and test in all sorts of weather conditions and environments (not just a few suburban blocks) before even letting them think about driving off the lot.

Yeah no thanks. It was great when my kids got their liscense at 16 and I didn't have to haul them around. Only one of them got in a fender bender (with a parked car) that was their fault.

I really, really hope they're taught how to drive responsibly. Yeah, it's awesome that you no longer have to drive your kids around and it's not your problem. It will be my problem (and very likely yours) if a kid views a license as carte blanche to drive like a maniac and act recklessly around pedestrians.

As Max pointed out, it's true that not all kid drivers are the cause behind bad accidents. But if you're not taught early, you'll never learn to appreciate how dangerous a car is and pick up bad habits. If you view a kid getting their license as a weight off your back and not a huge responsibility you're granting them, that is a problem.

I'm sorry, but the attitude towards "license or bust" is not healthy. Being licensed to become a HAM radio operator requires taking a 35 question exam (granted I've heard it's a vocab test), and that only grants you access to a couple of specific frequencies (because you could interfere with aviation or marine broadcasts). Being licensed to become a forklift operator requires retesting and recertification every three years (because handling a forklift means handling very heavy or dangerous things). But being licensed for a car? Shoot, you could drive a 26 foot box truck if you wanted to.

[Max Rockatansky]

You might be grossly overestimating how difficult it is to become "forklift certified." 

[SEWIGuy]

Because we built this country to be so car-dependent, the absence of a license feels like government tyranny. Building better cities helps take a lot of the burden off, but we definitely still need stricter standards for issuing and renewing licenses, at all ages.

It would be highly unpopular, but short of forcing everyone to drive around with speed governors and semi-automated gizmos, upping the standards to something even halfway as thorough as Germany's would be a great start. Treat driving with the proper seriousness, make drivers train and test in all sorts of weather conditions and environments (not just a few suburban blocks) before even letting them think about driving off the lot.

Yeah no thanks. It was great when my kids got their liscense at 16 and I didn't have to haul them around. Only one of them got in a fender bender (with a parked car) that was their fault.

I really, really hope they're taught how to drive responsibly. Yeah, it's awesome that you no longer have to drive your kids around and it's not your problem. It will be my problem (and very likely yours) if a kid views a license as carte blanche to drive like a maniac and act recklessly around pedestrians.

As Max pointed out, it's true that not all kid drivers are the cause behind bad accidents. But if you're not taught early, you'll never learn to appreciate how dangerous a car is and pick up bad habits. If you view a kid getting their license as a weight off your back and not a huge responsibility you're granting them, that is a problem.

I'm sorry, but the attitude towards "license or bust" is not healthy. Being licensed to become a HAM radio operator requires taking a 35 question exam (granted I've heard it's a vocab test), and that only grants you access to a couple of specific frequencies (because you could interfere with aviation or marine broadcasts). Being licensed to become a forklift operator requires retesting and recertification every three years (because handling a forklift means handling very heavy or dangerous things). But being licensed for a car? Shoot, you could drive a 26 foot box truck if you wanted to.

My kids are in their late 20s / early 30s. They're fine.

[kkt]

I wouldn't want someone driving who had to be forced to get a license.

[Rothman]

I wouldn't want someone driving who had to be forced to get a license.

Best off not knowing at all.

[Max Rockatansky]

My parents forced me to get a license at 16 and they were absolutely correct for doing so.  I found a lot of independence and self reliance in being able to drive myself.  My life would be unfathomably worse off if I didn't have access to a car.  It would be even worse if I lacked the ability to operate one.   

I'm also of the mindset that burdening children with increasing adult responsibilities is a healthy part of growing up.  Not teaching your kid the ability to operate a car more than likely is setting them up for failure in the modern world.

To be truthful, I probably had way more respect for traffic laws as a kid and young adult.  The consequences of fucking up in a car were way higher the further back in time I go.  My insurance rates were already high enough and cops definitely had a close eye on me until I was my mid-20s.

[SEWIGuy]

I wouldn't want someone driving who had to be forced to get a license.

I never forced my kids to get a license.

[Rothman]

My parents forced me to get a license at 16 and they were absolutely correct for doing so.  I found a lot of independence and self reliance in being able to drive myself.  My life would be unfathomably worse off if I didn't have access to a car.  It would be even worse if I lacked the ability to operate one.   

I'm also of the mindset that burdening children with increasing adult responsibilities is a healthy part of growing up.  Not teaching your kid the ability to operate a car more than likely is setting them up for failure in the modern world.

To be truthful, I probably had way more respect for traffic laws as a kid and young adult.  The consequences of fucking up in a car were way higher the further back in time I go.  My insurance rates were already high enough and cops definitely had a close eye on me until I was my mid-20s.

Eh, my son has a license; my daughter does not.  My daughter's doing well enough, working in a city with good public transit (cheaper than a car).  Depends on the kid.

[Max Rockatansky]

My parents forced me to get a license at 16 and they were absolutely correct for doing so.  I found a lot of independence and self reliance in being able to drive myself.  My life would be unfathomably worse off if I didn't have access to a car.  It would be even worse if I lacked the ability to operate one.   

I'm also of the mindset that burdening children with increasing adult responsibilities is a healthy part of growing up.  Not teaching your kid the ability to operate a car more than likely is setting them up for failure in the modern world.

To be truthful, I probably had way more respect for traffic laws as a kid and young adult.  The consequences of fucking up in a car were way higher the further back in time I go.  My insurance rates were already high enough and cops definitely had a close eye on me until I was my mid-20s.

Eh, my son has a license; my daughter does not.  My daughter's doing well enough, working in a city with good public transit (cheaper than a car).  Depends on the kid.

Yes, and I found out quick my high school era in Chicago that long term urban living wasn't going to suit me.  My eventual chosen mode of life just isn't possible not being able to transport myself.

That said, there was nothing quite like the crucible of navigating a 1997 Chevy CK in downtown Chicago at 16.  That certainly was not a stress free environment to learn how to drive in (especially with parking).

[jeffandnicole]

Shoot, you could drive a 26 foot box truck if you wanted to.

Or a Class A RV.

[1995hoo]

You almost have to wrap battery powered Christmas lights around you to get noticed walking on the road at night nowadays.

That issue has been on my mind because the clocks going back an hour this coming weekend means sunset will be just after 5:00 PM. I usually go out for a walk after I finish work for the day, so I'll be walking in the dark. I wear a Sugoi Zap cyclist's jacket that becomes reflective when headlight illumination hits it, but I feel like I'm still not visible enough when I cross the street. (The Zap jacket works pretty well. My brother has one and he said a cop once stopped him to ask what it was—the cop said he'd never been able to see a cyclist so well from so far away.) I've been thinking about getting what is effectively a wrap-around lighted "vest"—that's the term they use, but it's a bit of a misnomer—of the sort seen below. I've considered a strap-on headlamp as well.

I don't particularly like the sort of rainbow color that some of these things use, but if it makes you more visible when crossing the street or walking along a street that doesn't have a sidewalk....

[jeffandnicole]

You almost have to wrap battery powered Christmas lights around you to get noticed walking on the road at night nowadays.

That issue has been on my mind because the clocks going back an hour this coming weekend means sunset will be just after 5:00 PM. I usually go out for a walk after I finish work for the day, so I'll be walking in the dark. I wear a Sugoi Zap cyclist's jacket that becomes reflective when headlight illumination hits it, but I feel like I'm still not visible enough when I cross the street. (The Zap jacket works pretty well. My brother has one and he said a cop once stopped him to ask what it was—the cop said he'd never been able to see a cyclist so well from so far away.) I've been thinking about getting what is effectively a wrap-around lighted "vest"—that's the term they use, but it's a bit of a misnomer—of the sort seen below. I've considered a strap-on headlamp as well.

I don't particularly like the sort of rainbow color that some of these things use, but if it makes you more visible when crossing the street or walking along a street that doesn't have a sidewalk....

I don't think the the age-old line of thought of wearing bright colors makes you more visible is as true nowadays. Sure, a yellow or white piece of clothing is much better than black, but the visibility isn't all that great from further distances.

I don't know if this is an issue from lighting on cars and streetlights, or material used in clothing.  Or what we've become accustomed to. Even things like orange traffic cones in work zones have reflective rings innthrn to enhance visibility, with orange, itself being a fairly bright color, wasn't noticeable enough on its own.

[LilianaUwU]

With that said, even if I had powerful mindbending powers that made everyone in a radius of 2 miles aware of my presence, drivers STILL wouldn't see me.

[hotdogPi]

I've done pretty well with my reflective vest. I also use a flashlight, but at least two drivers have said they can't see it.

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe pull a Division of Highways and wear reflective green paint escalating up to vinyl? 

A place I lived in at the Florida Keys tried to get me to wear lights or something reflective.  I refused given that was way too much safety theater for a gated community and just ran outside the property (on US 1 and Old State Road 4A).

Worth pointing out since I forgot a page or two back.  I was hit by both cars between 1-3 PM in full sunlight.

[GaryV]

drivers STILL wouldn't see me

They can't see my car with headlights - that must be the reason they pull out of a side street or change lanes in front of me. So what hope does a lowly pedestrian have?

Or maybe my car has a "Cone of Invisibility" feature that I don't know how to turn off. It's got enough other electronic gizmos. When I got the car, I could understand why there was a chip shortage.

[mgk920]

I wouldn't want someone driving who had to be forced to get a license.

I never forced my kids to get a license.

I recall several decades ago reading about someone who made each of his kids solo an airplane before taking lessons to drive a car.  Well, there are a LOT fewer things that you can hit up there than there are down here.

Mike