Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[GaryV]

I was thinking Dukes of Hazard.

[74/171FAN]

On I-695 Inner at I-95 (Exit 33) as of 10/14/2024  (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10221549121197895&set=a.10221551880186868)

[1995hoo]

That dancing arrow certainly makes for an ugly sign in the second image.

[hwyfan]

The new bridge should definitely be built with more lanes.

If the MdTA sought to build a replacement Key Bridge with more lanes, that would trigger a slew of additional time consuming environmental review processes, whereas if they replaced it in-kind (meaning a facility with the same number of lanes as the destroyed predecessor), they can avoid those reviews. 

[hwyfan]

If the replacement Key bridge does indeed get reconstructed with 100% federal funding, as the current President and Maryland's Congressional delegation has sought, would this in turn mean that the MdTA could not subsequently resume charging a toll on the new span once it has been opened?   

Historically, other facilities have historically dropped tolling once they were expanded through mostly federal funding (the first expansion of the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel comes to mind).

[jmacswimmer]

If the replacement Key bridge does indeed get reconstructed with 100% federal funding, as the current President and Maryland's Congressional delegation has sought, would this in turn mean that the MdTA could not subsequently resume charging a toll on the new span once it has been opened? 

Historically, other facilities have historically dropped tolling once they were expanded through mostly federal funding (the first expansion of the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel comes to mind).

Doubtful, given the extraordinary circumstances involved. If anything, I imagine MDTA will be hiking tolls sometime in the near future between this, the potential upcoming Bay Bridge replacements, debt from the recently-replaced Nice Bridge, and ongoing ETL projects along the I-95/JFK Highway corridor. It's been a long time since the MDTA hiked tolls, in fact the last adjustment was actually a decrease for all MD E-ZPass rates and cash rates at the Bay Bridge only by former Governor Hogan in 2015.

[Chris]

The Coast Guard published the conceptual design for the new bridge:

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=90657&Source=/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=90657

Direct link to PDF: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/bridges/publicNotices/D05_PN09-24_FrancisScottKey_PatapscoRiver_MD.pdf

Some takeaways:

* the new bridge will be a cable-stayed bridge with a 1,400 ft center span (up from 1,200 ft)
* the new vertical bridge clearance will be 230 ft (up from 185 ft)
* the overall length of the bridge is significantly longer from abutment to abutment at 12,765 ft (up from 8,636 ft).
* the new bridge will feature four lanes and shoulders

[Max Rockatansky]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

[Great Lakes Roads]

I'm not that surprised that the new bridge will be a cable-stayed bridge with a longer span and a higher clearance over the water as well as the same number of lanes with shoulders...

[Rothman]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

[Max Rockatansky]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

Yes, they are cost efficient and it isn't a surprise one chosen as the quick route to a fix.  All the same the cable stayed design aesthetic has pretty much lost all the charm it once had.

[PColumbus73]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

Yes, they are cost efficient and it isn't a surprise one chosen as the quick route to a fix.  All the same the cable stayed design aesthetic has pretty much lost all the charm it once had.

Maybe if bridge designers could find a way to make the towers look like something other than a flat, solid box. Do the requirements of building a cable-stayed bridge make it more challenging to add any embellishments, or modify the design of the towers?

I understand the trend shifting to cheaper, more utilitarian bridge designs, but there should be some allowances for aesthetics since they often become landmarks for the area. Compared to suspension bridges, you can tell them apart pretty easy just by looking at them, different paint, shape / molding of the towers, but the cable-stayed bridges are falling into a rut of gray concrete and white cables, and a handful of variations to the towers.

[jeffandnicole]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

Yes, they are cost efficient and it isn't a surprise one chosen as the quick route to a fix.  All the same the cable stayed design aesthetic has pretty much lost all the charm it once had.

Maybe if bridge designers could find a way to make the towers look like something other than a flat, solid box. Do the requirements of building a cable-stayed bridge make it more challenging to add any embellishments, or modify the design of the towers?

I understand the trend shifting to cheaper, more utilitarian bridge designs, but there should be some allowances for aesthetics since they often become landmarks for the area. Compared to suspension bridges, you can tell them apart pretty easy just by looking at them, different paint, shape / molding of the towers, but the cable-stayed bridges are falling into a rut of gray concrete and white cables, and a handful of variations to the towers.

I don't know if it's a trend, but rather what today's technology allows and the costs of materials for the era.  It's not often you'll see a transportation department choose something unusually expensive just to make it a landmark bridge.

[Max Rockatansky]

Not anymore anyways.  Then again, this isn't the project to try build a signature bridge.

[longhorn]

Why not add a lane now and plan for growth?

[Big John]

Safety improvement as the old bridge didn't have shoulders.

[PColumbus73]

True, they're trying to get it fixed quickly.

But generally speaking, the cable-stayed has developed a monotonous look.

[jdbx]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

Yes, they are cost efficient and it isn't a surprise one chosen as the quick route to a fix.  All the same the cable stayed design aesthetic has pretty much lost all the charm it once had.

Maybe if bridge designers could find a way to make the towers look like something other than a flat, solid box. Do the requirements of building a cable-stayed bridge make it more challenging to add any embellishments, or modify the design of the towers?

I understand the trend shifting to cheaper, more utilitarian bridge designs, but there should be some allowances for aesthetics since they often become landmarks for the area. Compared to suspension bridges, you can tell them apart pretty easy just by looking at them, different paint, shape / molding of the towers, but the cable-stayed bridges are falling into a rut of gray concrete and white cables, and a handful of variations to the towers.

I don't know if it's a trend, but rather what today's technology allows and the costs of materials for the era.  It's not often you'll see a transportation department choose something unusually expensive just to make it a landmark bridge.

One only has to take a look at the debacle that was the replacement eastern span of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge to see why transportation departments would be spooked away from building a signature span.  The original planned replacement was to be a simple viaduct, and it ended up becoming a single-tower self-anchored suspension bridge.  It is a beautiful bridge to look at, and quite striking to drive across, especially heading in the Eastbound direction.  But it was completed years late and billions over-budget.  You can make arguments either way on whether the added time and expense was truly worth it, but it feels like we are entering another austerity era and I don't see those sorts of expenditures coming from any public agency any time soon.

[PColumbus73]

Cable stayed?...how unoriginal.

Keeps the price tag lower.

Yes, they are cost efficient and it isn't a surprise one chosen as the quick route to a fix.  All the same the cable stayed design aesthetic has pretty much lost all the charm it once had.

Maybe if bridge designers could find a way to make the towers look like something other than a flat, solid box. Do the requirements of building a cable-stayed bridge make it more challenging to add any embellishments, or modify the design of the towers?

I understand the trend shifting to cheaper, more utilitarian bridge designs, but there should be some allowances for aesthetics since they often become landmarks for the area. Compared to suspension bridges, you can tell them apart pretty easy just by looking at them, different paint, shape / molding of the towers, but the cable-stayed bridges are falling into a rut of gray concrete and white cables, and a handful of variations to the towers.

I don't know if it's a trend, but rather what today's technology allows and the costs of materials for the era.  It's not often you'll see a transportation department choose something unusually expensive just to make it a landmark bridge.

One only has to take a look at the debacle that was the replacement eastern span of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge to see why transportation departments would be spooked away from building a signature span.  The original planned replacement was to be a simple viaduct, and it ended up becoming a single-tower self-anchored suspension bridge.  It is a beautiful bridge to look at, and quite striking to drive across, especially heading in the Eastbound direction.  But it was completed years late and billions over-budget.  You can make arguments either way on whether the added time and expense was truly worth it, but it feels like we are entering another austerity era and I don't see those sorts of expenditures coming from any public agency any time soon.

Another point, a lot of the famous suspension bridges originated at the city or state level, so there may be more incentive to create something more aesthetically pleasing.

[hwyfan]

Are the proposed center span tower piers located in water whose depth is shallow enough to cause a large cargo ship to run aground if it were to have a mechanical failure similar to the Dali? 

[hwyfan]

Why not add a lane now and plan for growth?

Because doing so would be more than an in-kind replacement (meaning no more than the 4 lanes of the former bridge).   Should they seek to add lanes beyond that to the replacement span, new environmental impact studies would have to be conducted. 

[Henry]

I'm not that surprised that the new bridge will be a cable-stayed bridge with a longer span and a higher clearance over the water as well as the same number of lanes with shoulders...

Neither am I; in fact, I'm being led to believe that whoever won the contract to rebuild the whole thing would make it into a cable-stayed bridge. Hopefully, the new bridge will complement the Baltimore skyline as well as the old one did.

[Revive 755]

Because doing so would be more than an in-kind replacement (meaning no more than the 4 lanes of the former bridge).  Should they seek to add lanes beyond that to the replacement span, new environmental impact studies would have to be conducted.

Wasn't the replacement bridge for I-35W over the Mississippi wider than the original?  I thought one of the damaged bridges around New Orleans got rebuilt wider after Hurricane Katrina?

[Alex]

Because doing so would be more than an in-kind replacement (meaning no more than the 4 lanes of the former bridge).  Should they seek to add lanes beyond that to the replacement span, new environmental impact studies would have to be conducted.

Wasn't the replacement bridge for I-35W over the Mississippi wider than the original?  I thought one of the damaged bridges around New Orleans got rebuilt wider after Hurricane Katrina?

Both of which were narrow with four lanes, the I-10 bridges over Lake Pontchartrain and the I-10 bridges over Escambia Bay were both replaced with wider spans following Hurricanes Katrina and Ivan respectively. Same with the narrow four lane crossing of U.S. 90 over the Back Bay of Biloxi. Replaced with a six lane span after Katrina. Perhaps environmental studies to six lane all of those crossings were previously conducted in anticipation of eventual replacements? If so, hurricanes may have inadvertently accelerated the time lines.

[longhorn]

Why not add a lane now and plan for growth?

Because doing so would be more than an in-kind replacement (meaning no more than the 4 lanes of the former bridge).   Should they seek to add lanes beyond that to the replacement span, new environmental impact studies would have to be conducted. 

That is sad and pathetic.