New Jersey

[jeffandnicole]

Found this 1972 planning document with all sorts of delicious maps of never built freeways

Assuming the solid black line was just for a 2 lane roadway...

So many of the proposed widenings never occurred.  Yet, one that did wasn't planned at this point.  US 322 was dualized (with a double-double yellow center) thru the middle of the state.

[02 Park Ave]

What was that NJ 51 in Camden?

NJ 55 goes around the east side of Glassboro and Clayton instead of west.

I'd still like that US 322 freeway to be built.  That's pretty much where I put my fictional version of it.  Now I would have the SJTA build it as a toll road.  I'd call it the AC Expressway Western Spur. Kinda impressive that 50 years later it still looks feasible.

The Turnpike Authority had proposed building such a freeway decades ago but were stymied by local opposition.

[roadman65]

Wasn't US 322 just recently widened in Woolwich Township from I-295 to US 130?

[jeffandnicole]

Wasn't US 322 just recently widened in Woolwich Township from I-295 to US 130?

Yes (Logan Twp actually).  It's about a 1.3 mile segment that was widened mostly without taxpayer dollars, by a warehouse developer.  There was another spot widening another 2 miles down before and after a traffic light, again by a warehouse developer.  But the 3/4 mile between these two areas wasn't widened. 

During a public comment session by the DVRPC a few years back for NJ's TIP, I wrote that NJDOT should consider widening that area between the two widened sections, as well as a bit further east.  The DVRPC's comment was:  Their policy is no more than 4% of funding can be used on widening roadways (they didn't specify that the 4% was already allocated) and that any project needs to be also part of another document that they produce, which of course has different timings. 

So while it would make absolute sense, both in safety and continuity, to combine the two widened zones, the DVRPC which controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey makes it seem like an unattainable burden to do so.

[roadman65]

US 322 should be four lanes west of the Turnpike at least. That's in an ideal world of course

One thing NJDOT don't have urgency, though, when it comes to expansion of their roads like where I'm from.  Look at widening projects as very few do you see and when they do widen a road, it takes years hence US 206 in Somerset County.

[ixnay]

[T]he DVRPC [...] controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey.

In what way?  And does that commission restrict PennDOT in the same manner?

[jeffandnicole]

[T]he DVRPC [...] controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey.

In what way?  And does that commission restrict PennDOT in the same manner?

This pretty much sums it up: https://www.dvrpc.org/planandtip

They work with PennDOT in a similar manner.

My biggest issue is that 'long range planning'. It may be a little more rigid than it should be.  While they envision what will happen over the next 25 years, there are so many variables that can change things.  To my point earlier:  It probably wasn't envisioned that 322 would be widened in 2 spots, leaving a small single lane gap.  It should be pretty simple to see that widening that gap would be beneficial for travelers, but they claim that it can't be funded because it wasn't in the long-range planning.

US 322 should be four lanes west of the Turnpike at least. That's in an ideal world of course

One thing NJDOT don't have urgency, though, when it comes to expansion of their roads like where I'm from.  Look at widening projects as very few do you see and when they do widen a road, it takes years hence US 206 in Somerset County.

NJDOT has had a policy for a few decades now to limit widening projects.  And when there is a possibility of a widening, people that live near the area to be widened tend to be against the project.  It doesn't help that the media tends to back those against projects, making it seem that's the common viewpoint.

One current example is NJ 70 between 38 & 73. There's a 5 year project to basically renew everything along the roadway - the roadway itself, traffic lights, sidewalks, utility poles, drainage, etc.  But one thing they're not doing is widening the 2 lane (per direction) portions to 3 lanes, despite they've already paved over the former median to facilitate traffic during the construction.  This was due to residents claiming they wouldn't be able to safely get across Rt. 70 to neighborhoods on the other side.  I've traveled Rt. 70 many times, and I can't really recall anyone walking across 70, and most intersections have traffic lights to safely get people across the road.  But Cherry Hill, where most of the construction is taking place, sided with the residents and told NJDOT if they want to fix the road, they're not going to widen it, despite the obvious benefits to the township of less congestion and less traffic in the neighborhoods to bypass congestion.

[roadman65]

[T]he DVRPC [...] controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey.

In what way?  And does that commission restrict PennDOT in the same manner?

This pretty much sums it up: https://www.dvrpc.org/planandtip

They work with PennDOT in a similar manner.

My biggest issue is that 'long range planning'. It may be a little more rigid than it should be.  While they envision what will happen over the next 25 years, there are so many variables that can change things.  To my point earlier:  It probably wasn't envisioned that 322 would be widened in 2 spots, leaving a small single lane gap.  It should be pretty simple to see that widening that gap would be beneficial for travelers, but they claim that it can't be funded because it wasn't in the long-range planning.

US 322 should be four lanes west of the Turnpike at least. That's in an ideal world of course

One thing NJDOT don't have urgency, though, when it comes to expansion of their roads like where I'm from.  Look at widening projects as very few do you see and when they do widen a road, it takes years hence US 206 in Somerset County.

NJDOT has had a policy for a few decades now to limit widening projects.  And when there is a possibility of a widening, people that live near the area to be widened tend to be against the project.  It doesn't help that the media tends to back those against projects, making it seem that's the common viewpoint.

One current example is NJ 70 between 38 & 73. There's a 5 year project to basically renew everything along the roadway - the roadway itself, traffic lights, sidewalks, utility poles, drainage, etc.  But one thing they're not doing is widening the 2 lane (per direction) portions to 3 lanes, despite they've already paved over the former median to facilitate traffic during the construction.  This was due to residents claiming they wouldn't be able to safely get across Rt. 70 to neighborhoods on the other side.  I've traveled Rt. 70 many times, and I can't really recall anyone walking across 70, and most intersections have traffic lights to safely get people across the road.  But Cherry Hill, where most of the construction is taking place, sided with the residents and told NJDOT if they want to fix the road, they're not going to widen it, despite the obvious benefits to the township of less congestion and less traffic in the neighborhoods to bypass congestion.

That's my point. Too many NIMBYs.  That's why the loss of urgency.

I'm supposing US 9 from Lakewood to Tuckerton is the same. NIMBys don't want the road widened either.

I know in Flemington back in the mid eighties, the state wanted to widen Route 31 from the Flemington Circle to I-78, but the businesses in Flemington balked and it got truncated to it's current end north of the borough.  Even the realignment proposal died for environmental reasons that would have had a bypass of Flemington altogether.

NJ is going to remain unscathed with its substandard road infrastructure.  However they're not alone, as CT and RI are with them.

[roadman65]

Does the Palisades Interstate Parkway in New Jersey on its 11 miles from the GWB to the NY State Line have any motor road overpasses?

I do remember some foot bridges near Englewood Cliffs and the US 9W connector crossing over the SB lanes only. However some may consider the aforementioned as a glorified ramp to the GWB and not the Parkway itself.

From what I see only Palisades Avenue in Englewood Cliffs, Alpine Approach Road and US 9W in Alpine area are the only three roads that cross the limited access  facility from one side to the other that all pass beneath it.

If it were true it would be a feat as usually freeways have a mix of both unless you're in Florida where we have freeways with more underpasses than overpasses.

[The Ghostbuster]

I find it interesting that the Palisades Interstate Parkway has still has gas stations: one in New Jersey north of Exit 1, and one in New York south of Exit 5. Many of the Parkways in the New York Metropolitain Area has gas stations along their routes. However, the majority of those gas stations were closed and demolished. Also, the PIP is one of the few routes in New Jersey to have sequential exit numbers. Hopefully, someday, they will be converted to mileage-based.

[roadman65]

I find it interesting that the Palisades Interstate Parkway has still has gas stations: one in New Jersey north of Exit 1, and one in New York south of Exit 5. Many of the Parkways in the New York Metropolitain Area has gas stations along their routes. However, the majority of those gas stations were closed and demolished. Also, the PIP is one of the few routes in New Jersey to have sequential exit numbers. Hopefully, someday, they will be converted to mileage-based.

I was thinking about when NYSDOT gets to renumbering the PIP in their schedule. NJDOT will have to renumber their part as well. So seeing mile based numbers might be a thing.

As far as gas goes, the one in NJ maybe to the fact the commuters use it keeps it alive. Considering it's mainly Rockland County users, they may patronize that particular station to not have to pump gas themselves at home in New York.

The one near Exit 5 I don't know, but maybe the Rockland commuters stop there as convenience to also gas up even though it's out of NJ's full serve zone.

[RobbieL2415]

When I drove the Palisades last month during rush hour, I was genuinely shocked at how little traffic there was. As in, none, until I reached Fletcher Ave.

Do people not use it as an alternate route to NJ because there's no direct interchange with I-95 at Fort Lee?

[NJRoadfan]

Who actually maintains the PIP in NJ? (plowing, pothole repairs, etc.) The SLDs state the PIP Commission has jurisdiction, but NJDOT made a big stink about having to repave the road a few years back.

[storm2k]

When I drove the Palisades last month during rush hour, I was genuinely shocked at how little traffic there was. As in, none, until I reached Fletcher Ave.

Do people not use it as an alternate route to NJ because there's no direct interchange with I-95 at Fort Lee?

Other than local Fort Lee/Englewood traffic using the Hudson Terrace entrance to get to the GW, not really. It stays in the park on the Jersey side and doesn't connect to much other than 9W a couple of times. The road is more useful in New York. I used to use it to get to an office my company had in Blauvelt, but that was just because it was right on 303.

[webny99]

A sinkhole has opened on the shoulder of I-80 Eastbound near Wharton, causing a full closure and traffic diversion at Exit 34. Traffic ultimately has a very short detour, returning to I-80 at the Exit 34 on-ramps via NJ 15 or Dewey Ave. Even so, there's been a roughly 2.5 hour delay for most of the day, and Eastbound traffic is recommended to seek alternate routes.

https://pix11.com/news/see-it-sinkhole-on-i-80-opens-up-in-new-jersey/

[Roadgeek Adam]

That section of 80 is sitting on a stretch of several old mines in the area, dating back to the year 1750. They're old iron mines, and the one that finally gave is NJDEP #239, the Mount Pleasant Mine. It's not the first one in Wharton to collapse, leading to a sinkhole, The Orchard Mine gave way in 2000, leading to a 15x30 sinkhole on North Main Street. Seems inevitable that the Mount Pleasant Mine was eventually gonna give way as well. Just be thankful no one was hurt.

[webny99]

That section of 80 is sitting on a stretch of several old mines in the area, dating back to the year 1750. They're old iron mines, and the one that finally gave is NJDEP #239, the Mount Pleasant Mine. It's not the first one in Wharton to collapse, leading to a sinkhole, The Orchard Mine gave way in 2000, leading to a 15x30 sinkhole on North Main Street. Seems inevitable that the Mount Pleasant Mine was eventually gonna give way as well. Just be thankful no one was hurt.

Interesting. This is obviously a much deeper issue than a standard road repair. With no indication yet of when I-80 could reopen, I wonder how long it could take to get fixed. I think at some point they'd have to consider a temporary fix to allow one or more lanes to be reopened, similar to the I-95 bridge fire in Philly.

The backup on I-80 isn't quite as bad today since most people probably know about the closure by now, but that only means things have gotten worse on the local roads as drivers find alternates through the area.

[jeffandnicole]

That section of 80 is sitting on a stretch of several old mines in the area, dating back to the year 1750. They're old iron mines, and the one that finally gave is NJDEP #239, the Mount Pleasant Mine. It's not the first one in Wharton to collapse, leading to a sinkhole, The Orchard Mine gave way in 2000, leading to a 15x30 sinkhole on North Main Street. Seems inevitable that the Mount Pleasant Mine was eventually gonna give way as well. Just be thankful no one was hurt.

Interesting. This is obviously a much deeper issue than a standard road repair. With no indication yet of when I-80 could reopen, I wonder how long it could take to get fixed. I think at some point they'd have to consider a temporary fix to allow one or more lanes to be reopened, similar to the I-95 bridge fire in Philly.

The backup on I-80 isn't quite as bad today since most people probably know about the closure by now, but that only means things have gotten worse on the local roads as drivers find alternates through the area.

The left shoulder (about 4' wide) and the left and center travel lanes are unaffected. Originally the right lane wasn't affected as well, but they had to dig into that lane to get to the edge of the compromised area.

The roadway remains closed as they are using the unaffected lanes to assist with the preparation of the repairs, and for equipment to have good access to the area that needs to be filled.  Since it's Christmas week, overall there's less traffic especially at rush hour so the detoured routes aren't affected as much.  Basically a short-term issue to allow repairs to be completed faster.  The rains now aren't going to help though.

If the repairs were to continue behind Jan 1, they may need to reassess the traffic options.

[roadman65]

I removed my post as my phone did not allow me access to the previous posts.

I see it's been discussed now several hours later.  So my link to this is irrelevant.  Hopefully a couple of people haven't noticed and already sent me feedback where my phone hasn't got wit it yet.

Anyway removed it.


My tablet finally died and forced to now use my slow android. 

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ks9Jer4p3LSHY3za8?g_st=ac

I'm impressed with NJDOT. They actually erected directional shields on NJ ,439 at NJ 28.

[webny99]

A sinkhole has opened on the shoulder of I-80 Eastbound near Wharton, causing a full closure and traffic diversion at Exit 34. Traffic ultimately has a very short detour, returning to I-80 at the Exit 34 on-ramps via NJ 15 or Dewey Ave. Even so, there's been a roughly 2.5 hour delay for most of the day, and Eastbound traffic is recommended to seek alternate routes.

https://pix11.com/news/see-it-sinkhole-on-i-80-opens-up-in-new-jersey/

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, this stretch of I-80 reopened yesterday.

[roadman65]

Is the Atlantic City Expressway cash less yet?

I was reading that the ACE will be the first toll roads in the state to eliminate the cash tolls and already allocated millions to do so.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Is the Atlantic City Expressway cash less yet?

I was reading that the ACE will be the first toll roads in the state to eliminate the cash tolls and already allocated millions to do so.

No, but it should be cashless around May 2025.

[FLAVORTOWN]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ks9Jer4p3LSHY3za8?g_st=ac

I'm impressed with NJDOT. They actually erected directional shields on NJ ,439 at NJ 28.

I noticed that "Ave" is written on the bottom now on the sign strip on the mast arm. Is this something new from NJDOT?

The signals that were rebuilt on US-1 in Edison do not do this, but the signals being rebuilt on NJ-18 in East Brunswick do. Something odd that I noticed

[InfamousMFD478]

[T]he DVRPC [...] controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey.

In what way?  And does that commission restrict PennDOT in the same manner?

This pretty much sums it up: https://www.dvrpc.org/planandtip

They work with PennDOT in a similar manner.

My biggest issue is that 'long range planning'. It may be a little more rigid than it should be.  While they envision what will happen over the next 25 years, there are so many variables that can change things.  To my point earlier:  It probably wasn't envisioned that 322 would be widened in 2 spots, leaving a small single lane gap.  It should be pretty simple to see that widening that gap would be beneficial for travelers, but they claim that it can't be funded because it wasn't in the long-range planning.

US 322 should be four lanes west of the Turnpike at least. That's in an ideal world of course

One thing NJDOT don't have urgency, though, when it comes to expansion of their roads like where I'm from.  Look at widening projects as very few do you see and when they do widen a road, it takes years hence US 206 in Somerset County.

NJDOT has had a policy for a few decades now to limit widening projects.  And when there is a possibility of a widening, people that live near the area to be widened tend to be against the project.  It doesn't help that the media tends to back those against projects, making it seem that's the common viewpoint.

One current example is NJ 70 between 38 & 73. There's a 5 year project to basically renew everything along the roadway - the roadway itself, traffic lights, sidewalks, utility poles, drainage, etc.  But one thing they're not doing is widening the 2 lane (per direction) portions to 3 lanes, despite they've already paved over the former median to facilitate traffic during the construction.  This was due to residents claiming they wouldn't be able to safely get across Rt. 70 to neighborhoods on the other side.  I've traveled Rt. 70 many times, and I can't really recall anyone walking across 70, and most intersections have traffic lights to safely get people across the road.  But Cherry Hill, where most of the construction is taking place, sided with the residents and told NJDOT if they want to fix the road, they're not going to widen it, despite the obvious benefits to the township of less congestion and less traffic in the neighborhoods to bypass congestion.

That's my point. Too many NIMBYs.  That's why the loss of urgency.

I'm supposing US 9 from Lakewood to Tuckerton is the same. NIMBys don't want the road widened either.

I know in Flemington back in the mid eighties, the state wanted to widen Route 31 from the Flemington Circle to I-78, but the businesses in Flemington balked and it got truncated to it's current end north of the borough.  Even the realignment proposal died for environmental reasons that would have had a bypass of Flemington altogether.

NJ is going to remain unscathed with its substandard road infrastructure.  However they're not alone, as CT and RI are with them.

I can't stand driving in South Jersey, I swear. US 322 AND US 40 need to be 4 lanes straight through, no exceptions. Widen 322 from 295, to Williamstown, to have a driect route from the Commodore Barry Bridge to the AC Expressway, it's a major crossing.
Widen 40 from where it is now, and have it bypass Woodstown, Elmer, have it go on 55 in Vineland, and have that follow what 54 was in Atlantic County to the AC Expressway so it can be a direct route from the Del. Memorial Bridge to the Shore.
But no, they fix everything up in North Jersey real quick, now I know what it's like to live in Illinois. I hate it here.....