Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[jeffandnicole]

I think there's somewhat of a signage and lane marking issue approaching this split, which isn't apparent by slow-rolling on GSV. 

Coming in hot at 55 mph or greater, there's a single diagram sign showing the split, tucked between two other signs.  The "1/4 Mile Ahead" sign really doesn't represent anything since you're already on 95 South (its only significance is to point out the tolling point is in 1/4 mile, which most motorists won't realize they're going under). The Exit 53 side to the right doesn't inform motorists to be in the right lane, which is necessary as the exit is just after the tunnel. https://maps.app.goo.gl/PHU7BcPFCX2BeJv2A  A solid line starts to separate the 4 lanes into 2, and then there's a slight curve to the right. 

On the NB side, the separation occurs a little earlier, and the split contains an asphalt median that makes it a bit easier to distinguish.  The overhead sign showing the split only contains that one sign. https://maps.app.goo.gl/gB149jSeK24dCPtt5

[jmacswimmer]

^

In addition to your points, the SB configuration is still relatively new following the AET conversion + toll plaza removal (previously the split was right after the toll plaza while traffic was still getting up to speed, and was more-or-less determined by which toll lane you used), whereas the NB configuration has always been that way.

Speaking of AET, from checking the same traffic cam I posted earlier it looks like the tolling equipment was indeed damaged by the fire - everything above bore #2 appears to have been removed with a short-term replacement of just 2 transponder readers (1 over each lane). So E-ZPass users are still getting captured which is probably the bulk of users, but nothing to capture toll-by-plate until the equipment is fully replaced.

[jeffandnicole]

^

In addition to your points, the SB configuration is still relatively new following the AET conversion + toll plaza removal (previously the split was right after the toll plaza while traffic was still getting up to speed, and was more-or-less determined by which toll lane you used), whereas the NB configuration has always been that way.

Speaking of AET, from checking the same traffic cam I posted earlier it looks like the tolling equipment was indeed damaged by the fire - everything above bore #2 appears to have been removed with a short-term replacement of just 2 transponder readers (1 over each lane). So E-ZPass users are still getting captured which is probably the bulk of users, but nothing to capture toll-by-plate until the equipment is fully replaced.

Good to know...   

[Henry]

Today is the sort of day on which the people of Baltimore, and long-distance traffic passing through the area, must sorely miss the bridge. It seems there was a truck fire at the entrance to the southbound left-side bore (Bore #2) at the Fort McHenry Tunnel. Reports are that it's taking two hours from White Marsh to either of the tunnels.

https://x.com/deedeverell/status/1864661870222700944

Dave Statter has video of the fire:

https://x.com/STATter911/status/1864713889469923500

Can't catch a break at these harbor crossings, with a bridge collapse and tunnel fire... 

At least it was great to see the I-895 reconstruction get done before any of the above happened.

[jeffandnicole]

Can't catch a break at these harbor crossings, with a bridge collapse and tunnel fire... 

At least it was great to see the I-895 reconstruction get done before any of the above happened.

The bridge collapse is closing I-695 for 5 years.

The truck fire closed I-95 for 2 hours.  And it didn't occur in the tunnel.

Not really in the same league of comparisons.

[roadman65]

Let's hope it's as little as five years.

[Plutonic Panda]

Looks like work to rebuild this bridge. Will begin as soon as January: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/baltimore-key-bridge-construction-january/

[jeffandnicole]

Looks like work to rebuild this bridge. Will begin as soon as January: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/baltimore-key-bridge-construction-january/

That isn't a very accurate story. You can find hundreds of projects in very preliminary planning stages, and many of those never make it to construction.

"This is a big deal for not just Maryland, but our nation's economy..."

How?  Because it shortens a trip by 45 minutes?  With the waterway navigable again, there's little else that bridge construction will do for the nation's economy.   And again - say to yourself what a bridge does to the *nations* economy. It may help the local economy, but I'm pretty sure Oregon, California and Nebraska aren't suffering due to the bridge not being in service currently.

[roadman65]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/preconstruction-work-begin-january-rebuild-collapsed-baltimore-bridge-117085043

This one admits it's pre construction. Not actual.

[epzik8]

Regardless of how far along the new bridge plans actually are, I'm just glad Congress (apparently) managed to forget about their differences for long enough to include it in a continuing resolution.

[edwaleni]

Looks like work to rebuild this bridge. Will begin as soon as January: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/baltimore-key-bridge-construction-january/

That isn't a very accurate story. You can find hundreds of projects in very preliminary planning stages, and many of those never make it to construction.

"This is a big deal for not just Maryland, but our nation's economy..."

How?  Because it shortens a trip by 45 minutes?  With the waterway navigable again, there's little else that bridge construction will do for the nation's economy.   And again - say to yourself what a bridge does to the *nations* economy. It may help the local economy, but I'm pretty sure Oregon, California and Nebraska aren't suffering due to the bridge not being in service currently.

That is what I say about the NY/NJ Holland Tunnel replacement. (Gateway)

People in NY and NJ kept calling it a "national priority" and for our "national economy".

If our national economy is solely dependent on whether a financial analyst can reach his/her office in over priced Manhattan on time so he/she can live in New Jersey, then we are in a lot of trouble.

Most companies in NYC have already duplicated many of those functions in other cities in the East (for less money)

So really it a "regional priority" in support of a "regional economy".

[vdeane]

That is what I say about the NY/NJ Holland Tunnel replacement. (Gateway)

People in NY and NJ kept calling it a "national priority" and for our "national economy".

If our national economy is solely dependent on whether a financial analyst can reach his/her office in over priced Manhattan on time so he/she can live in New Jersey, then we are in a lot of trouble.

Most companies in NYC have already duplicated many of those functions in other cities in the East (for less money)

So really it a "regional priority" in support of a "regional economy".

Gateway is not just for commuter trains.  Every single train for the Northeast Corridor goes though that tunnel.  This seems just one step removed from SP Cook's "Amtrak only serves hobbyists" arguments.

[edwaleni]

That is what I say about the NY/NJ Holland Tunnel replacement. (Gateway)

People in NY and NJ kept calling it a "national priority" and for our "national economy".

If our national economy is solely dependent on whether a financial analyst can reach his/her office in over priced Manhattan on time so he/she can live in New Jersey, then we are in a lot of trouble.

Most companies in NYC have already duplicated many of those functions in other cities in the East (for less money)

So really it a "regional priority" in support of a "regional economy".

Gateway is not just for commuter trains.  Every single train for the Northeast Corridor goes though that tunnel.  This seems just one step removed from SP Cook's "Amtrak only serves hobbyists" arguments.

I didn't question the need for it to get done, I questioned the titles placed on it.

[Henry]

The Sunshine Skyway took seven years to be rebuilt, and if it does take half that time for the Key Bridge, then it would be great.

[jeffandnicole]

That is what I say about the NY/NJ Holland Tunnel replacement. (Gateway)

People in NY and NJ kept calling it a "national priority" and for our "national economy".

If our national economy is solely dependent on whether a financial analyst can reach his/her office in over priced Manhattan on time so he/she can live in New Jersey, then we are in a lot of trouble.

Most companies in NYC have already duplicated many of those functions in other cities in the East (for less money)

So really it a "regional priority" in support of a "regional economy".

Gateway is not just for commuter trains.  Every single train for the Northeast Corridor goes though that tunnel.  This seems just one step removed from SP Cook's "Amtrak only serves hobbyists" arguments.

I didn't question the need for it to get done, I questioned the titles placed on it.

I get the "National Economy?" part.  If I were to somehow try to justify that, it would be that a significant portion of Amtrak's passenger fare revenues are earned from people utilizing trains that go thru this tunnel.  Without the tunnel, it would be either impossible or a very large time difference to utilize another crossing.  Locally, NJ Transit would lose a very large portion of their fare revenue.  Trains to and from NYC are generally the only public transit that actually makes money based on their operating expenses.

But, as in my example, would Oregon, California and Nebraska suffer if this tunnel were to be closed?  Unless those revenues are tied to national funding of other needs, probably not.

[edwaleni]

I want to see a new Key Bridge ASAP. And I hope it is magnificent in design and exceeds the prior one's utility to the greater Baltimore area. It is a major regional arterial and definitely has a strong use case.

It just isn't national in scope. I don't care that Biden/Congress agreed to pay 100% from the Federal coffers which is not the norm. Usually a disaster has to be declared by the state authority, and then the President can authorize a 100% expenditure via FEMA instead of the typical 75%.

President Biden did this in the case of the declared disaster's from hurricanes in Florida.

[PColumbus73]

I want to see a new Key Bridge ASAP. And I hope it is magnificent in design and exceeds the prior one's utility to the greater Baltimore area. It is a major regional arterial and definitely has a strong use case.

It just isn't national in scope. I don't care that Biden/Congress agreed to pay 100% from the Federal coffers which is not the norm. Usually a disaster has to be declared by the state authority, and then the President can authorize a 100% expenditure via FEMA instead of the typical 75%.

President Biden did this in the case of the declared disaster's from hurricanes in Florida.

From the Federal perspective I think the Port of Baltimore is more important than the bridge itself. It would make sense that the Feds would cover the costs of clearing the bridge and reopening the shipping channel. The bridge is important locally, but aside from disruptions at the port, it wasn't as serious as, say, I-26 & 40 being washed out after the hurricane.

[bwana39]

Regardless of how far along the new bridge plans actually are, I'm just glad Congress (apparently) managed to forget about their differences for long enough to include it in a continuing resolution.

I have to question if its importance is higher than say in Baton Rouge or even Memphis. Especially Baton Rouge needs an additional bride and it would do more to restore traffic to manageable conditions, than this seeming gift to Maryland.

[1995hoo]

I want to see a new Key Bridge ASAP. And I hope it is magnificent in design and exceeds the prior one's utility to the greater Baltimore area. It is a major regional arterial and definitely has a strong use case.

It just isn't national in scope. I don't care that Biden/Congress agreed to pay 100% from the Federal coffers which is not the norm. Usually a disaster has to be declared by the state authority, and then the President can authorize a 100% expenditure via FEMA instead of the typical 75%.

President Biden did this in the case of the declared disaster's from hurricanes in Florida.

From the Federal perspective I think the Port of Baltimore is more important than the bridge itself. It would make sense that the Feds would cover the costs of clearing the bridge and reopening the shipping channel. The bridge is important locally, but aside from disruptions at the port, it wasn't as serious as, say, I-26 & 40 being washed out after the hurricane.

Your comment does prompt me to wonder how much road traffic shipping things to or from the port crosses that bridge. After all, once something is imported, it then has to be taken to wherever it's going to be sold. (Consider the massive numbers of imported cars you can see from the Harbor Tunnel Thruway near the south end of the tunnel.)

[edwaleni]

I want to see a new Key Bridge ASAP. And I hope it is magnificent in design and exceeds the prior one's utility to the greater Baltimore area. It is a major regional arterial and definitely has a strong use case.

It just isn't national in scope. I don't care that Biden/Congress agreed to pay 100% from the Federal coffers which is not the norm. Usually a disaster has to be declared by the state authority, and then the President can authorize a 100% expenditure via FEMA instead of the typical 75%.

President Biden did this in the case of the declared disaster's from hurricanes in Florida.

From the Federal perspective I think the Port of Baltimore is more important than the bridge itself. It would make sense that the Feds would cover the costs of clearing the bridge and reopening the shipping channel. The bridge is important locally, but aside from disruptions at the port, it wasn't as serious as, say, I-26 & 40 being washed out after the hurricane.

Your comment does prompt me to wonder how much road traffic shipping things to or from the port crosses that bridge. After all, once something is imported, it then has to be taken to wherever it's going to be sold. (Consider the massive numbers of imported cars you can see from the Harbor Tunnel Thruway near the south end of the tunnel.)

The new cars sitting at the BalTerm Terminal at Whetstone Point are being exported. Most likely Puerto Rico and US Virgin Islands under the Jones Act.

New imported cars come in at Sparrows Point at the Tradepoint Terminal.

[bluecountry]

So is it going to be wider, or at the very least, if no additional travel lanes, full shoulders?

[The Ghostbuster]

When bridges are replaced, such as the former Francis Scott Key Bridge, they should be given full shoulders (if enough space can be provided for such).

[jeffandnicole]

So is it going to be wider, or at the very least, if no additional travel lanes, full shoulders?

The plans aren't complete yet.  They may have a few proposed plans; they may have a public info session.  If not, then we'll all see the final design when it's signed off.

My guess - since the feds are committed to paying 100% of the project, Maryland won't be as concerned about cutting costs.  As a result, shoulders and a bike/pedestrian path will probably be part of the eventual bridge.

[roadman65]

I saw the missing structure from Avelo Flight 525.  We flew over Baltimore after taking off from Wilmington and saw the harbor.

It appears they removed the upper portion of the approaches as only the lower halves were seen.

[1995hoo]

https://x.com/HellgrenWJZ/status/1886826843174518900