NFL (2020-2024)

[oscar]

It is going to be a LONG decade-plus for the two teams in the NFC East that are ran by people who seriously should not be running a professional sports team. For the two with competent people in charge, well, the results have been pretty obvious this postseason.

It's been just a few years since it was just one with competent ownership. Look at the former Commanders/WFT/Redskins owner, now off in England where he can do no harm to the NFL, and seems not at all gracious about the success the Commies have enjoyed in his absence:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43538463/snyder-hates-commanders-success

[jeffandnicole]

Go Birds!!!

[Roadgeekteen]

Well I guess I'm rooting for the Eagles

[Ted$8roadFan]

I feel for the Bills....once again, they lose a game they could have won to the team that has their number every year. It's safe to say that Mahomes and the Chiefs are becoming the 2020s version of the Patriots. For better and for worse.

[1995hoo]

One of our Caps season-ticket partners has pointed out that the last time Philadelphia won the Super Bowl, the Caps won the Stanley Cup the same year. I also noted that the last time the Redskins lost the NFC Championship game, they won the Super Bowl the next year.

Too bad I'm not superstitious so as to allow me to believe any of that has significance now.

[SEWIGuy]

Not a big fan of either team but this could be a really fun game to watch. If the Chiefs win, they'll be the first to win three straight NFL titles since the Packers of the late 60s and the first entirely within the Super Bowl era. Five Super Bowls in six years is something regardless, and they may not be done. For as good as the Patriots dynasty was, they didn't have a run like this.

[jgb191]

https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-part-ways-with-team-president-greg-grissom-who-had-been-with-club-since-inception

https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-fire-oc-bobby-slowik-two-seasons

Not exactly breaking news since it happened days ago, but the Texans are making some staff changes.  I am unsure who or even if Daniel McNair is going to replace as our new team President of the club.  As for Bobby, I don't know if this will hurt his chances of landing an HC position, and it remains to be seen if this was the right move for the team going on to next season.  All we know is the offense is in major need of repairs and/or upgrades....possibly getting new offensive weapons, maybe rebuilding our OL, or could be needing a new play-caller (OC) -- or a combination of all of the above.  With only a fraction of the cap space to work with compared to last year, our GM Nick Caserio has some work to accomplish if the Texans are going to take that next step, which is getting to the AFC Championship game within a few years from now.

[webny99]

The result of the AFC championship... is what it is. The better coached team with better players who made more plays won. ...

However, one thing is clear and that is that the NFL has an officiating crisis on their hands. Three MASSIVE officiating failures ... the point is that all three were completely wrong and all three were in massive, game-changing moments. You simply CANNOT say that the officiating did not have a massive game changing impact in that game.

There were actually close to 10 game changing officiating failures but I won't rant more about that.

Good perspective here on the double (triple? quadruple?) edged sword of blame for the Bills latest playoff failure.

[webny99]

https://x.com/LASIKdotcom/status/1883700569191416154

[JayhawkCO]

https://x.com/LASIKdotcom/status/1883700569191416154

The ball is in his right hand. I don't think you can call it one way or the other definitively.

[SEWIGuy]

https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-part-ways-with-team-president-greg-grissom-who-had-been-with-club-since-inception

https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-fire-oc-bobby-slowik-two-seasons

Not exactly breaking news since it happened days ago, but the Texans are making some staff changes.  I am unsure who or even if Daniel McNair is going to replace as our new team President of the club.  As for Bobby, I don't know if this will hurt his chances of landing an HC position, and it remains to be seen if this was the right move for the team going on to next season.  All we know is the offense is in major need of repairs and/or upgrades....possibly getting new offensive weapons, maybe rebuilding our OL, or could be needing a new play-caller (OC) -- or a combination of all of the above.  With only a fraction of the cap space to work with compared to last year, our GM Nick Caserio has some work to accomplish if the Texans are going to take that next step, which is getting to the AFC Championship game within a few years from now.

Of course it hurts his chances of becoming a head coach.

[thspfc]

I'm very tempted to ask for a list of the "close to 10" officiating failures. The only two off the top of my head are the Worthy "catch" and the Elam penalty that should have been 5 yards for IUOH instead of 15 for a facemask.

[jeffandnicole]

The result of the AFC championship... is what it is. The better coached team with better players who made more plays won. No one else from the AFC has done anything this decade either aside from the surprise Bengals' run that yielded the only Super Bowl win by an NFC team not quarterbacked by Tom Brady in the Mahomes era.

However, one thing is clear and that is that the NFL has an officiating crisis on their hands. Three MASSIVE officiating failures (the Xavier worthy non-catch, the erroneous spot on Kincaid on 3rd & 3 that led to a failed 4th down, and the Allen 4th down that was incorrectly ruled short), and yes they were all in favor of the Chiefs but that's not the point, the point is that all three were completely wrong and all three were in massive, game-changing moments. You simply CANNOT say that the officiating did not have a massive game changing impact in that game.

It's no more a crisis today than it was many years ago.  More cameras and sharper screen resolutions allow us a better view of plays today than ever.  And bang-bang plays are always going to be controversial, because there's always an element of opinion.

And trust me - I wanted the Bills to win.  But they also should've scored more on their drives, or held the Chiefs to fewer points.  The calls on these plays suck. But they were many other opportunities for the Bills to have done better.

[webny99]

I'm very tempted to ask for a list of the "close to 10" officiating failures. The only two off the top of my head are the Worthy "catch" and the Elam penalty that should have been 5 yards for IUOH instead of 15 for a facemask.

OK, sure. In roughly descending order ...

1) Pass to Worthy ruled a catch but it hit the ground first
2) 4th & 1 where Allen was incorrectly ruled short
3) Kincaid first down on 3rd & 3 incorrectly ruled short with no review, setting up #2
4) No call on Chiefs delay of game at the 2-minute warning
5) Multiple (4+) holds on KC's long punt return
6) No call on Chiefs OT ripping Bills DE Greg Rousseau's helmet off
7) Kelce taunting Hamlin initiating an exchange that led to a flag against Jordan Phillips... but not Kelce.
8) Offsides on Ed Oliver
9) Facemask on Kaiir Elam
10) Bonus! flag on the deciding 4th & 5 that was picked up after the Kincaid drop

And I'm sure officiating errors that went the Bills way can be found to cancel out the bottom five, but none that came close to being as game changing as the top five.

[webny99]

It's no more a crisis today than it was many years ago.  More cameras and sharper screen resolutions allow us a better view of plays today than ever.  And bang-bang plays are always going to be controversial, because there's always an element of opinion.

Yes, I get that, but there were clear officiating errors on two game changing plays (the Worthy catch and the controversial 4th & 1) that stood even after being reviewed.

And trust me - I wanted the Bills to win.  But they also should've scored more on their drives, or held the Chiefs to fewer points.  The calls on these plays suck. But they were many other opportunities for the Bills to have done better.

And I will restate again that I don't think the officiating is the reason why the Bills lost. Obviously, poor play on defense (losing Rapp and Benford didn't help) is the #1 reason for the loss. All five of the Chiefs scoring drives were *way* too easy and that has been a consistent theme in all of the Bills' playoff losses this decade.

Even so, the officiating did completely change the game in several key moments so it's fair to mention it in a list of things that didn't go the Bills' way... in addition to their own failure and mistakes in all three phases.

[thspfc]

2) 4th & 1 where Allen was incorrectly ruled short

I have yet to see an angle that definitively shows the ball on the 40-yard line.

3) Kincaid first down on 3rd & 3 incorrectly ruled short with no review, setting up #2

He was short. Pause at the exact moment his first body part touches.

4) No call on Chiefs delay of game at the 2-minute warning

I noticed that too, and literally the only explanation is that the play clock on the broadcast was inaccurate to the one in the stadium because there is no way Kansas City would have overlooked that. They're too good to mess that up.

5) Multiple (4+) holds on KC's long punt return

Need to see images. If you're making this assertion I assume you have some sort of proof, right?

6) No call on Chiefs OT ripping Bills DE Greg Rousseau's helmet off

I remember seeing Rosseau without a helmet but I forgot when it was and need to see a clip of the actual moment when it came off.

7) Kelce taunting Hamlin initiating an exchange that led to a flag against Jordan Phillips... but not Kelce.

Players jaw at each other ALL THE TIME. Phillips came in and popped him in the helmet for no reason. No brainier flag.

8) Offsides on Ed Oliver

You think that wasn't offsides? I'm speechless.

10) Bonus! flag on the deciding 4th & 5 that was picked up after the Kincaid drop

There was no flag on that play. It was a broadcast error.


So by my count that's 2 legitimate gripes (Worthy non-catch and Elam hands to the face), 3 where I would need to see a replay, 2 broadcast errors, and 3 correct calls.

[Henry]

Meh...

The only difference between this game and the one from two years back is that there'll be no sequel to the Kelce Bowl, since Jason retired (but he does own a ring from Super Bowl LII). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Travis helped the Chiefs become the first-ever team to three-peat and stake his claim as the winningest tight end since Rob Gronkowski.

[webny99]

2) 4th & 1 where Allen was incorrectly ruled short

I have yet to see an angle that definitively shows the ball on the 40-yard line.

3) Kincaid first down on 3rd & 3 incorrectly ruled short with no review, setting up #2

He was short. Pause at the exact moment his first body part touches.

The 4th & 1 is clear from the overhead view. The 3rd & 3 is extremely close, but even if he's short, the spot was still incorrect, which affected the next play. If it had been spotted correctly there would have been no debate on what would have been an ensuing 4th & inches play.

The problem here is the subjectivity of the spotting process leading to these debates that are pretty much impossible to settle after the fact. A $22bn league with 21st century technology should have long since had a live spotting solution figured out by now that takes all the subjectivity out of it.

literally the only explanation is that the play clock on the broadcast was inaccurate to the one in the stadium because there is no way Kansas City would have overlooked that. They're too good to mess that up.

It was apparently explained on the broadcast that they can let it go to the two minute warning in that scenario if it's less than a full second. That seems like a much more likely explanation.

I remember seeing Rosseau without a helmet but I forgot when it was and need to see a clip of the actual moment when it came off.

This play.

Players jaw at each other ALL THE TIME. Phillips came in and popped him in the helmet for no reason. No brainier flag.

No reason? Kelce *was* the reason. Obviously a flag on Phillips but it should have been offsetting.

[tchafe1978]

In regards to the 4th and 1 call, and other bad spots over the course of the season, why in this day and age of technology, there hasn't yet been some sort of Airtag type device implanted in the footballs so the location of the ball can be precisely tracked in relation to the yard and down and distance markers, so that there is a foolproof way to tell if a player makes the line to gain or crosses the goal line, is baffling. You can have all the replay angles you want, but sometimes the view of the ball in play is blocked by players, etc. so that a definitive ruling visually is very difficult, so you're stuck with the ruling on the field. Also said tracking device could also sense contact with the ground so that there is no question on whether a pass was dropped or caught. Should be simple solutions, but like years ago when we went through the "process of the catch" nonsense, the NFL will make it more complicated than it has to be.

[hotdogPi]

In regards to the 4th and 1 call, and other bad spots over the course of the season, why in this day and age of technology, there hasn't yet been some sort of Airtag type device implanted in the footballs so the location of the ball can be precisely tracked in relation to the yard and down and distance markers, so that there is a foolproof way to tell if a player makes the line to gain or crosses the goal line, is baffling. You can have all the replay angles you want, but sometimes the view of the ball in play is blocked by players, etc. so that a definitive ruling visually is very difficult, so you're stuck with the ruling on the field. Also said tracking device could also sense contact with the ground so that there is no question on whether a pass was dropped or caught. Should be simple solutions, but like years ago when we went through the "process of the catch" nonsense, the NFL will make it more complicated than it has to be.

This would be expensive, given that balls (in any sport) have to replaced multiple times throughout the game.

[1995hoo]

The other problem with that notion is that in the NFL, all the ball has to do is "break the plane"—any part of the ball, however small. It's the opposite of hockey where the whole puck has to be over the whole line (both for a goal and for avoiding offside), although in both cases there's a similar conundrum. That is, implanting an AirTag right in the middle of the ball or puck wouldn't work—in football, one tip of the ball might have broken the plane even if the middle of the ball didn't, and in hockey part of the puck might still be on the line. But putting the AirTag right in the tip of the ball wouldn't really work either because the runner might hold the ball in some other position (that is, the AirTag might not be across the line when some other part of the ball is). Unless the idea is to put in multiple devices tracking both ends of the ball, although that still raises the question of what I guess you could call the "fat middle part."

It seems like you'd almost have to change the football to use a wire substructure where the entire thing would function like an AirTag down to the millimeter. Aside from the expense, I wonder how that would change the ball itself in terms of weight and feel.

[Mapmikey]

also consider:  the ball is frequently moved further forward by either momentum of the ball carrier coming to a halt after being down or on line-to-gain/goal line plays where the ball carrier keeps trying to reach the ball across after the whistle blows.  Can a detection system be designed that can know the position of the ball exactly when the player is down or the whistle blows for forward progress and ignore what the ball is doing after those things...?

[ZLoth]

It is going to be a LONG decade-plus for the two teams in the NFC East that are ran by people who seriously should not be running a professional sports team. For the two with competent people in charge, well, the results have been pretty obvious this postseason.

Hang on a second... I'm looking at the past few seasons here for the NFC East...
2020 - Horrid season, only Washington made the playoffs with a division winning 7-9 record
2021 - Cowboys win division with a 12-5 record, Eagles made wild card with 9-8 record
2022 - Eagles win division with a 14-3 record, Cowboys and Giants made wild card.
2023 - Cowboys win division with a 12-5 record, Eagles made wild card with a 11-6 record. Both were eliminated in the wild card round.

The problem with the 2023 Cowboys is that many of their wins were against sub-.500 teams.

[1995hoo]

also consider:  the ball is frequently moved further forward by either momentum of the ball carrier coming to a halt after being down or on line-to-gain/goal line plays where the ball carrier keeps trying to reach the ball across after the whistle blows.  Can a detection system be designed that can know the position of the ball exactly when the player is down or the whistle blows for forward progress and ignore what the ball is doing after those things...?

This brings to mind one of my favorite explanations:

[thspfc]

2) 4th & 1 where Allen was incorrectly ruled short

I have yet to see an angle that definitively shows the ball on the 40-yard line.

3) Kincaid first down on 3rd & 3 incorrectly ruled short with no review, setting up #2

He was short. Pause at the exact moment his first body part touches.

The 4th & 1 is clear from the overhead view.

The overhead camera is well behind the ball, skewing the sight angles.