My idea for US currency reform

[1995hoo]

I was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.

I think the main use I have for $1 bills these days is tipping at the barbershop. I always carry $5s when I travel to use when tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendants in the first-class car on the Acela.

I don't keep anything below $10 in my wallet anymore "too much bulk, not enough buying power".  I would also love to have higher value coins ($1, $2 at least) for my regular trips to the coin laundry (a great place to get your money cleaned!).  Pumping nearly a half roll of quarters, one at a time, into a washing machine to do one load is VERY BEYOND ANNOYING!  I also never run anything that would need a $5 coin, but other customers do.

Mike

Mike

I seldom use a laundromat because we have machines at home, but I had to use one last year when our dryer's heating element failed and had to be replaced. The laundromat I went to has machines that don't take coins the way they did 30 years ago when I was a student. Instead, there's a card vending machine. You use cash or a credit/debit card to buy, and load, the card and then you swipe that card at the individual washers and dryers (the card is reloadable). The pay machine looks kind of like the change machines most of us grew up seeing in arcades or the like.

Even 30 years ago, I recall the machines' coin slots were configured so that you loaded up however many quarters next to each other and pushed the thing in, rather than pumping in coin after coin like you would at a Coke machine.

[Rothman]

People still need coins for laundry machines?

I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!

Mike

People need credit cards to pay for laundry?

[SEWIGuy]

I was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.

<sigh>

No they didn't. This is a completely illogical way to look at coinage.

[GaryV]

in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins

They may have spent that much money, but they didn't lose it. It's not like the mint is selling coins to the general public, or to banks either.

[1995hoo]

OK. Would you prefer I said they wasted almost a quarter-billion?

[GaryV]

One man's wasted funds are another man's well-spent funds. It all depends on your outlook.

I agree, pennies are worthless to have and carry around, and nickels nearly so. But if they didn't spend the money on making those coins and switched to dollar and 2-dollar coins, they'd probably spend just as much or more. Or if we just take over Canada then we can have all their Loonies and Twonies. For free.

[mgk920]

People still need coins for laundry machines?

I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!

Mike

People need credit cards to pay for laundry?

The coin laundry that I usually use has 'plastic' acceptors on all of their machines.



Mike

[Rothman]

People still need coins for laundry machines?

I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!

Mike

People need credit cards to pay for laundry?

The coin laundry that I usually use has 'plastic' acceptors on all of their machines.



Mike

Hm.  I've seen paycards that you load cash onto.

[kphoger]

Nickels also cost more than 'face' value to make and distribute.  I would eliminate them, too, along with dimes.

Nickels are almost as bad as pennies, too, relative to their production cost.

penny = 3.7 cents to produce = 73% value lost
nickel = 13.8 cents to produce = 64% value lost

[kkt]

I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.

I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?

[kphoger]

I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.

I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?

Not having to roll them would go a long way.

I've never rolled coins to take them back to the bank  If your bank requires that, then I'm sorry.

[JayhawkCO]

People still need coins for laundry machines?

I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!

Mike

Enrich Whirlpool and buy one instead. (Or a used one off Craigslist.)

[kphoger]

Enrich Whirlpool

When Carrie and I were first married, we moved to Herrin, Illinois.  Our house was three blocks from what was, at that time, one of only three Maytag factories in the country that were unionized.  While we lived there, Whirlpool acquired Maytag and then promptly closed all three of the union factories.  For a town of 12k people, that was a huge blow.  Shortly thereafter, it became common to see those little 'Calvin' characters in pickup truck rear windows peeing on the Whirlpool logo.  I haven't been to Herrin in 17 years, but I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about Whirlpool.

[JayhawkCO]

Enrich Whirlpool

When Carrie and I were first married, we moved to Herrin, Illinois.  Our house was three blocks from what was, at that time, one of only three Maytag factories in the country that were unionized.  While we lived there, Whirlpool acquired Maytag and then promptly closed all three of the union factories.  For a town of 12k people, that was a huge blow.  Shortly thereafter, it became common to see those little 'Calvin' characters in pickup truck rear windows peeing on the Whirlpool logo.  I haven't been to Herrin in 17 years, but I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about Whirlpool.

I knew when I picked a random brand that I risked someone having a specific example of why not to enrich said company. For the record, I own a Samsung.

[Scott5114]

Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?

The Mint itself, maybe?

I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.

The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.

Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.

[mgk920]

Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?

The Mint itself, maybe?

I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.

The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.

Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.

Deuces are very much sill in current production.

Mike

[formulanone]

The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.

Ah yes, these folks will be up $47 after 5 years of hoarding and I'll just eventually die penniless.

I don't see the problem. Cut off the penny circulation and merge it over to nickels over the next ten years and have the banks stop accepting them. I've met a few penny hoarders over the years, they've always been around...

That said, I think I have a drawer with about $8-10 of one cent pieces that I should part with but keep forgetting.

[kalvado]

Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?

The Mint itself, maybe?

I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.

The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.

Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.

People holding currency on hand is generally beneficial for mint/government.
$2 bill can be seen as "we made a 20 cent souvenir, sold it for $2, we'll keep the profit. When and if they  choose to cash it out, that bill would be effectively cheaper than when we sold it".  Same with state quarters people keep.
100 piece roll of 1 cents is "we made a $3.75 souvenir, sold it for $1, and loose yet another $0.02 every time it goes through the bank"

[SEWIGuy]

Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?

The Mint itself, maybe?

The mint is a federal agency. It can't sue the head of the executive branch.

[Scott5114]

100 piece roll of 1 cents

Rolls have either 40 or 50 pieces in them (pennies and dimes have 50, nickels and quarters have 40). A roll with 100 pieces would probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long).

[kalvado]

100 piece roll of 1 cents

Rolls have either 40 or 50 pieces in them (pennies and dimes have 50, nickels and quarters have 40). A roll with 100 pieces would probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long).

But that allows typing without fractions...

[kphoger]

Deuces are very much sill in current production.

pooing is cool

would probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long)

pooing is cool

[MikeTheActuary]

Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?

The Constitution gives Congress authority to set standards for our currency, and as a practical matter the Federal Reserve actually commissions the production of coins subject to the Congressionally-set standards.

Aside from appointing the governors to the Federal Reserve, I'm uncertain how much authority the President can constitutionally wield over the Federal Reserve.  The President doesn't have the authority to order the Federal Reserve to change the fed funds rate, but that constraint might not extend to ordering coins from the Mint.

Congress and the Federal Reserve would have standing to sue to block an unlawful order.  Folks who supply the raw material to the Mint could, I suppose, also sue to recover damages from harm arising from unlawful orders or broken contracts.  Whether those parties would do so is a discussion that would touch on topics I believe are not welcome here.

Independent of my opinion on such topics... it's long past time for the US penny to be retired, and the nickel to either be retired or reformulated.

[Rothman]

Hm.  Wonder how that commissioning of coinage actually works.  Isn't The Mint's production at least somewhat driven by private banks' demand?  The Fed sets its borrowing rate and distributes to banks, but it would seem strange to dump currency/coinage through the banking system that just sits somewhere.

[vdeane]

People still need coins for laundry machines?

Last I checked, the machines in my apartment complex do.  I haven't used them in two years since I moved into an apartment with in-unit laundry, but from what my upstairs neighbor has said, they haven't changed.