Oklahoma City Shooting

[The Ghostbuster]

Has anyone heard about the shooting in Oklahoma City at The Collective Kitchens and Cocktails?: https://www.koco.com/article/collective-okc-midtown-bar-shooting-multiple-people/64681680. Strangely enough, the shooting site is listed on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4786262,-97.5188496,276m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!21m1!1s%2Fg%2F11xcrjw7v5?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D. I have never seen a shooting site listed on Google Maps before.

[Bobby5280]

I saw a short piece about it on the local news in Lawton this evening. Not a whole lot of detail though. Sounds like a case of "when keeping it real goes wrong."

[Henry]

Not coincidentally, the Thunder were playing that night, so the people involved were probably fans or something?

[Scott5114]

Sounds like a typical Oklahoma "guy A gets mad at guy B, both pull out their guns and start shooting" sort of affair. Except their aim was both shit and, since it happened in Midtown, there were bystanders that got caught in the crossfire. It wasn't the "lone gunman intentionally sets out to hurt as many people as possible" type of thing you normally think of when you think of mass shootings.

I cannot stress enough that this kind of dick-measuring contest is not unusual for Oklahoma culture. It's one of the reasons I always kept my head down and avoided confrontation when I lived there. The only unusual thing is that bystanders got hurt, which normally doesn't happen because most parts of Oklahoma are not very densely developed. Midtown OKC is one of the few places in the state that are, though.

[Rothman]

Sounds like a typical Oklahoma "guy A gets mad at guy B, both pull out their guns and start shooting" sort of affair. Except their aim was both shit and, since it happened in Midtown, there were bystanders that got caught in the crossfire. It wasn't the "lone gunman intentionally sets out to hurt as many people as possible" type of thing you normally think of when you think of mass shootings.

I cannot stress enough that this kind of dick-measuring contest is not unusual for Oklahoma culture. It's one of the reasons I always kept my head down and avoided confrontation when I lived there. The only unusual thing is that bystanders got hurt, which normally doesn't happen because most parts of Oklahoma are not very densely developed. Midtown OKC is one of the few places in the state that are, though.

Sounds like a great place to visit...which I will be soon...

[Bobby5280]

I cannot stress enough that this kind of dick-measuring contest is not unusual for Oklahoma culture. It's one of the reasons I always kept my head down and avoided confrontation when I lived there.

Oklahoma has quite the melting pot of hot heads here: Black, Latino, White Trash, Redneck and Native. Alcohol is good at getting hot heads into the mood for fighting or even shooting guns.

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Here in Lawton I think this town has lost at least half or more of its bars and night clubs over the past 20 years. One reason is some incident will happen at a night spot; the commanding General at Fort Sill will hear about it and make the night spot off limits to soldiers. That can be a big hit to a night club's bottom line. We're down to just one big dance club in this small city: Scooters. It's supposed to be a country dance club, but they play all kinds of music, mostly pop/R&B. I completely avoid that place. Too much drama, fights and other bullshit.

More generally speaking, a lot of younger adults just don't go out much any more. I imagine the fear of violence has to be one influential factor. It's also a lot cheaper to drink at home than drink in public. A growing number of younger adults just aren't drinking at all. Quite a few young people don't like crowds; they prefer solitude. They like socializing at a distance thru their phones and computers. Anyway, times are getting tough for restaurants, bars and night clubs around here. News of a shooting at a high profile place doesn't help the situation.

Realistically, a person's risk of getting caught up in violence is based largely on the company he keeps. 70% of homicides happen between people who know each other. Truly random acts of violence are rare. I think the thing I watch out for the most is road rage on the city streets and highways.

[Rothman]

I cannot stress enough that this kind of dick-measuring contest is not unusual for Oklahoma culture. It's one of the reasons I always kept my head down and avoided confrontation when I lived there.

Oklahoma has quite the melting pot of hot heads here: Black, Latino, White Trash, Redneck and Native. Alcohol is good at getting hot heads into the mood for fighting or even shooting guns.

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Here in Lawton I think this town has lost at least half or more of its bars and night clubs over the past 20 years. One reason is some incident will happen at a night spot; the commanding General at Fort Sill will hear about it and make the night spot off limits to soldiers. That can be a big hit to a night club's bottom line. We're down to just one big dance club in this small city: Scooters. It's supposed to be a country dance club, but they play all kinds of music mostly pop/R&B. I completely avoid that place. Too much drama, fights and other bullshit.

More generally speaking, a lot of younger adults just don't go out much any more. I imagine the fear of violence has to be one influential factor. It's also a lot cheaper to drink at home than drink in public. A growing number of younger adults just aren't drinking at all. Quite a few young people don't like crowds; they prefer solitude. They like socializing at a distance thru their phones and computers. Anyway, times are getting tough for restaurants, bars and night clubs around here. News of a shooting at a high profile place doesn't help the situation.

Realistically, a person's risk of getting caught up in violence is based largely on the company he keeps. 70% of homicides happen between people who know each other. Truly random acts of violence are rare. I think the thing I watch out for the most is road rage on the city streets and highways.

The dog whistles and not-so-much dog whistles in this post are deafening.

[The Ghostbuster]

The shooting site marker on Google Maps has been removed. They usually do that when the danger has passed.

[Bobby5280]

The dog whistles and not-so-much dog whistles in this post are deafening.

Can you try pointing out in specifics which comment of mine you think is wrong rather than flippantly shit on the entire quoted block of text?

[LilianaUwU]

A shooting in the US is not uncommon enough to warrant a thread, and I just know the thread is gonna degenerate FAST.

[Scott5114]

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

[vdeane]

It's also a lot cheaper to drink at home than drink in public. A growing number of younger adults just aren't drinking at all. Quite a few young people don't like crowds; they prefer solitude. They like socializing at a distance thru their phones and computers.

I imagine it's more these things.  Claiming it's fear of violence seems to me like something that would get a young person to say "OK Boomer" (and let's be honest - the "cities are criminal-ridden deathtraps" view is held mainly by people one one end of the political spectrum).

[Bobby5280]

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

Maybe. Still, if those tough guys with guns knew how to shoot properly they would only hurt each other instead of hitting bystanders. And if they really knew their stuff regarding guns they might know better than to bring a handgun to a bar or nightclub. Oklahoma has some pretty loose gun laws. But it's still illegal as hell to carry a gun in a bar or night club. IIRC you can't carry a gun into a casino in Oklahoma either.

I imagine it's more these things.  Claiming it's fear of violence seems to me like something that would get a young person to say "OK Boomer" (and let's be honest - the "cities are criminal-ridden deathtraps" view is held mainly by people one one end of the political spectrum).

There are other acts of violence that are far more common than shootings. A night club that has too much angry drama and too many fights is going to see a lot of "grown up" customers disappear. That's what happened to the Scooters night club in Lawton that I mentioned earlier.

When Scooters first opened in the late 1990's it had a great crowd with a wide mix of age ranges. They played mostly country music with just a couple or so songs in the pop/R&B category worked in once in awhile. The DJs started caving in to play song requests from young & attractive ladies. They weren't requesting anything country (or even rock for that matter). As the balance of music styles shifted more and more in the favor of pop/R&B the demographics of the crowd also changed and so did the crowd behavior. That might sound like a stereotype, but it plays out in real life all the time.

Some other night clubs in Lawton have been shut down for good because of homicides that happened in the parking lot or even inside. They didn't play country or rock music either. The worst thing that happened at Scooters was two people got run over by a drunk driver while they were trying to walk across Lee Blvd late at night. That was around 15 years ago. Lawton Police Dept was out there doing sobriety checks on everyone leaving the club at closing time for awhile. That was around the time I quit going there for good and my visits there were rare at that point.

Regarding "cities are criminal-ridden deathtraps" is a narrative driven by the news media more than any other group. They make a lot of advertising money by keeping viewers fixated, which they do by instilling fear and anger in them. New York City is far less dangerous today than it was when I lived there over 30 years ago. But no one would know that based on media coverage.

[Rothman]

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

Maybe. Still, if those tough guys with guns knew how to shoot properly they would only hurt each other instead of hitting bystanders. And if they really knew their stuff regarding guns they might know better than to bring a handgun to a bar or nightclub. Oklahoma has some pretty loose gun laws. But it's still illegal as hell to carry a gun in a bar or night club. IIRC you can't carry a gun into a casino in Oklahoma either.

Last I checked, murder was also illegal...

[Scott5114]

The DJs started caving in to play song requests from young & attractive ladies. They weren't requesting anything country (or even rock for that matter). As the balance of music styles shifted more and more in the favor of pop/R&B the demographics of the crowd also changed and so did the crowd behavior. That might sound like a stereotype, but it plays out in real life all the time.

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

[SEWIGuy]

It's also a lot cheaper to drink at home than drink in public. A growing number of younger adults just aren't drinking at all. Quite a few young people don't like crowds; they prefer solitude. They like socializing at a distance thru their phones and computers.

I imagine it's more these things.  Claiming it's fear of violence seems to me like something that would get a young person to say "OK Boomer" (and let's be honest - the "cities are criminal-ridden deathtraps" view is held mainly by people one one end of the political spectrum).

I would like this post multiple times if I could.

[SEWIGuy]

The DJs started caving in to play song requests from young & attractive ladies. They weren't requesting anything country (or even rock for that matter). As the balance of music styles shifted more and more in the favor of pop/R&B the demographics of the crowd also changed and so did the crowd behavior. That might sound like a stereotype, but it plays out in real life all the time.

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

Bobby's out here playing all the hits.

[kalvado]

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

Ok, now let's talk NYS driving techniques and licenses....

[Scott5114]

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

Ok, now let's talk NYS driving techniques and licenses....

I hear you call hamburgers steamed hams.

[Rothman]

Shootouts like these most often occur with the inner city thug types. "Gotta keep it real" -yeah, real dumb. They can't shoot for shit since they insist on aiming their pistols with visual style. Some of them hold their pistols sideways. Or they'll hold the gun over their head and point downward. They'll hit all kinds of other things (including bystanders) instead of their intended target. I guess using a proper two hand grip technique is just too nerdy for those guys.

Criticizing the shooter's technique instead of the fact that they're shooting people at all is very Oklahoman.

Ok, now let's talk NYS driving techniques and licenses....

The DJs started caving in to play song requests from young & attractive ladies. They weren't requesting anything country (or even rock for that matter). As the balance of music styles shifted more and more in the favor of pop/R&B the demographics of the crowd also changed and so did the crowd behavior. That might sound like a stereotype, but it plays out in real life all the time.

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

And blaming violence on pop/R&B is another dog whistle.

[Bobby5280]

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

It is a simple fact the format of music played at a night club will influence the crowd demographics. Like it or not, some crowds behave better than others. I'm not a big fan of country music (I listen mostly to hard rock and alternative rock music), but a place that just plays that kind of music is going to draw customers in a greater variety of age ranges. More people who behave like actual grown ups are going to be in the room.

Scooters, way out on the West edge of Lawton, is still in business thanks largely to lack of competition.

[SEWIGuy]

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

It is a simple fact the format of music played at a night club will influence the crowd demographics. Like it or not, some crowds behave better than others. I'm not a big fan of country music (I listen mostly to hard rock and alternative rock music), but a place that just plays that kind of music is going to draw customers in a greater variety of age ranges. More people who behave like actual grown ups are going to be in the room.

Scooters, way out on the West edge of Lawton, is still in business thanks largely to lack of competition.

So you think that clubs that play R&B music are more prone to violence because it generally will draw a younger crowd? And country music clubs do not?

I don't think that is a terribly accurate statement in my experience.

[Rothman]

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

It is a simple fact the format of music played at a night club will influence the crowd demographics. Like it or not, some crowds behave better than others. I'm not a big fan of country music (I listen mostly to hard rock and alternative rock music), but a place that just plays that kind of music is going to draw customers in a greater variety of age ranges. More people who behave like actual grown ups are going to be in the room.

Scooters, way out on the West edge of Lawton, is still in business thanks largely to lack of competition.

Blaming the deterioration of polite behavior on a lack of country music is more Oklahoman than Gary England eating a Braum's ice cream cone while misspelling a road sign.

It is a simple fact the format of music played at a night club will influence the crowd demographics. Like it or not, some crowds behave better than others. I'm not a big fan of country music (I listen mostly to hard rock and alternative rock music), but a place that just plays that kind of music is going to draw customers in a greater variety of age ranges. More people who behave like actual grown ups are going to be in the room.

Scooters, way out on the West edge of Lawton, is still in business thanks largely to lack of competition.

They just keep coming.  Dogs are howling.

[LilianaUwU]

I just know the thread is gonna degenerate FAST.

why was i proven right

[Scott5114]

I just know the thread is gonna degenerate FAST.

why was i proven right

It's an Oklahoma thread. Someone was bound to mention country music at some point.