Once they’re done with Amarillo, what’s comes next for I-27? North or South?

[Bobby5280]

I think I prefer the Concept C (Cyan) alignment since it runs nearest to Dumas. It also looks like it would do a better job of missing some large homes on the West side of Dumas since it runs on an alignment closer to the BNSF rail line.

The Concept D (Green) alignment looks the best at first glance, but it would run closer to the homes on Peggy Lane, if not go over the top of them.

The Yellow (E) and White (F) alignments look possibly easier to build, but run roughly a mile farther West of town. On the other hand they would have more open land space for larger interchanges with US-87, such as a "Y" system interchange for the possible I-27 spur to Raton. The Yellow alignment would need to run well to the left of existing Lena Lane to avoid mowing over a bunch of homes on the right side of that street.

The Purple (G) concept looks almost like an outer loop thing for Dumas. Its interchange with US-87 West of Dumas would be 3.5 miles West of the US-287/US-87 intersection in the middle of Dumas. The spur going around the East side of town would be 2.5 miles from the US-287/US-87 intersection.

[ModernDayWarrior]

I think I'd pick either E or F--both plenty close enough to Dumas proper to be useful to the town, yet won't require any homes or businesses be taken down.

[jtespi]

A near-bypass of Dumas would be more practical than a far bypass. I would pick Concept E as the best alternative, although they should probably include a freeway-to-freeway interchange just north of the future US 87 interchange, just in case New Mexico gets their rear-in-gear about allowing Interstate 27 within their state.

Yeah, Concept E looks like it strikes a good middle ground in terms of distance from the center of Dumas.

Just curious, if you have local knowledge, what's the difference between Concepts E and F? They are very close together on the map, so it's kinda odd TxDOT made them separate concepts.

[Bobby5280]

Concept F (white) runs a more comfortable distance West from Lena Lane while Concept E (Yellow) would probably re-build the existing Lena Lane gravel road as a paved frontage road. The Moore County Airport is West of both alignment concepts. The white alignment would do more to threaten an existing property on the South side of US-87 if a freeway to freeway Y interchange was built with US-87.

[DJStephens]

C or D.  They are somewhat more direct, and efficient.  Concepts that are largely missing from alignment studies today.    The curves, even on those (C and D) are to avoid creating a "diagonal" rail road crossing am guessing, as opposed to building  "easier" perpendicular crossings. So additional earthwork is deemed preferable to a "diagonal" crossing.  Wouldn't costs cancel each other out?  The outlying proposals come close to absurdity.  Meaning western G, and the easterly one.  Very far flung and inefficient.   

[kphoger]

E or F, as long as it minimizes taking houses.

But I don't mind G.

[splashflash]

More public meetings

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/txdot-launches-study-on-us-87us-287-upgrade-to-interstate-standards/ar-AA1Cahmr

The in-person public meetings will be held in Dumas on April 7 and in Amarillo on April 8, with sessions from 2-4 p.m. and 6-8 p.m. each day.

Virtual meeting materials will be available online starting April 7 at 2 p.m. on TxDOT.gov, where the public can also provide location-specific comments via a social engagement map.

The public comment period is open from April 7 to April 23. Comments must be postmarked or received by April 23, to be included in the official record. Responses to comments will be available online once prepared.

[monty]

A west side Dumas bypass makes the most sense. Traffic movement west along US 87 has to be the favored exit off the mainline N&S US 287 flow. The city of Dumas surely will have a say in the final route location. But if the bypass was on the east side, there would need to be an exit on TX 152 and that westbound US 87 traffic would need to go back through town. Not ideal.

Last time I drove US 87 through to Hartley,the utility relocations were well under way for that segment's upgrade to a divided highway.

[MaxConcrete]

Observations from the public meeting materials and presentation with alignment maps:

Dumas
There was a large amount of activity for considering alternatives in the last 4 months. The presentation shows refined and new alternatives each month (Jan, Feb, March, April). The presentation frequently mentions a local desire to have the alignment as close as possible to Dumas. In March a full loop was added as an option.

In the April iteration, the options are reduced to two alignments (which are three alternatives), east and west which together form a loop. After all the iteration, the usual criteria prevailed: minimize displacements. The west alternative (yellow) is by far the highest ranking in the matrix. Unfortunately, it is a curving and swerving alignment (ugh), which seems unnecessary because the area of swerving is through an undeveloped area. Apparently the swerving alignment is to avoid displacements on the southwest side of the city, but bring the alignment close to the city on the northwest side.

Amarillo
The only two options are around the Loop 335. Of course, we all agreed that there was no way the alignment would go through the center of Amarillo, but it was surprising that the first meeting included the central route as an option. No impact matrix is shown, but the east route appears to need many displacements, which suggests the west route will be selected. The only item with details in the presentation is the interchange on the north side of Amarillo.

[I-35]

What is driving the need for an eastern bypass at all?  An interstate grade freeway loop around a town of 15,000 seems egregiously overdone.

[kphoger]

What is driving the need for an eastern bypass at all?  An interstate grade freeway loop around a town of 15,000 seems egregiously overdone.

I'm not sure but, looking at the numbers, Concept B (teal) appears to sacrifice plenty of residential properties but leave almost all commercial properties alone.  With either A or B, only one commercial building (fourteen total commercial lots) are impacted.

However, I don't know if those numbers are out of date, because the concept was carried forward with modifications based on new eastside development.

[Bobby5280]

The West/Yellow alternative looks like the most realistic (least costly] remaining option. I think it's the only alternative that could be built out completely all at once.

I suppose they could plan for either the South Split alternative or Loop alternative, but such a thing would more likely have to be built in various phases. The cost would probably require building out Super 2 alignments with or without grade separated interchanges just to get the ROW secured. Then the interchanges and/or second sets of lanes would get added in later construction phases over a period of years (or decades).

[monty]

What is driving the need for an eastern bypass at all?  An interstate grade freeway loop around a town of 15,000 seems egregiously overdone.

I'm not sure but, looking at the numbers, Concept B (teal) appears to sacrifice plenty of residential properties but leave almost all commercial properties alone.  With either A or B, only one commercial building (fourteen total commercial lots) are impacted.

However, I don't know if those numbers are out of date, because the concept was carried forward with modifications based on new eastside development.

What is driving the need for an eastern bypass at all?  An interstate grade freeway loop around a town of 15,000 seems egregiously overdone.

Dumas is a very congested little city. Lots and lots of trucks have to get through a good number of stoplights. Several of them are right at / near the courthouse square. The stoplight intersection on the north side with US 87, US 287, and TX 152 has a lot of turning traffic and frequently backs up. Parallel to US 287 is a busy BNSF railroad that makes the west side bypass challenging.

[Bobby5280]

Dumas definitely needs some sort of freeway bypass.

The main North-South street thru town is Dumas Ave, which also carries US-87/287. When I drive through there during daylight hours that street is typically really busy. It might not seem like traffic is all that heavy approaching Dumas from the South. Everyone is doing 70mph or more and the vehicles are spread out. When every motorist starts hitting the speed zones and reaches the Walmart on the South side of town the traffic load compresses like an accordion. The drive can turn into a slog until I reach the intersection of Dumas Ave and 1st Street, which is also the point where US-87 splits from US-287.

Traffic on Dumas Avenue would flow more efficiently if the town had a freeway bypass, preferably on the West side of town. Heavy trucks merely passing through could use the bypass. People road-tripping in personal vehicles would probably still stop in Dumas. It's the last good place to top off the gasoline tank before prices jump noticeably farther North.

A full loop around Dumas would be harder to justify. Most of the problems could be solved with a bypass going East or West around town.

[english si]

If you go east, you're going to need a bridge over the railway as part of a 3/4ths loop, or have US87 still go through that stoplight.

OK, going west means two bridges, but you can arrange with BNSF to minimise downtime and do closures when they close. But it's a single track and wouldn't take too long to get the bit over the railway

Plus you avoid the terrain issues SE of the city that the urban area abuts. It's also considerably shorter (as there's not much west of the railway), so is likely cheaper despite the extra bridge.

A full loop is totally mad, combining all the negatives of both.

[Bobby5280]

I'm pretty sure TX DOT and construction crews wouldn't have much problem avoiding disruptions to freight trains while building bridges over the BNSF rail line. The biggest headache will be all the earth berm building and grading work needed to span over the rail line. They'll be looking at the same headaches with the US-87 interchange on the West side of town.

The only time rail service may be disrupted is when cranes are hoisting concrete or steel bridge beams to span over the track. That would be fairly late into the project.

The North-South BNSF line running through Dumas isn't all that busy. I doubt it carries as many trains as the line that splits off West going thru Hartley, Dalhart and up to Trinidad, CO. Neither of those rail lines have train frequency like the Southern Transcon that goes thru Amarillo. Now that's a busy friggin' rail line. Plenty of road bridges are spanning it, even in rural areas. Not only does the Southern Transcon carry a lot of trains, but some of the trains can be very long. It really sucks if you're stuck at an at-grade railroad crossing waiting on one 3 mile long train and another one comes up going the opposite direction keeping you stuck that much longer.

[TheBox]

Midland only just now joined the Ports-2-Plains Alliance recently. They were only registered up until now.

https://www.mrt.com/news/article/midland-ports-to-plains-alliance-20311236.php

[Bobby5280]

It's funny how the news article didn't make any mention of the proposed I-27 route having two East and West legs through that region.

[splashflash]

Or this article: https://www.yourbasin.com/news/i-27-and-i-14-developments-when-to-expect-construction/

[vdeane]

Or this article: https://www.yourbasin.com/news/i-27-and-i-14-developments-when-to-expect-construction/

Makes me think that I-27E should just be I-27 and I-27W should just be a pair of 3dis.

[The Ghostbuster]

That would be the logical thing to do, but Texas now seems to be obsessed with Interstate Suffixes. As if Interstates 35E/W weren't the only suffixes that should exist in the state of Texas.

[Plutonic Panda]

I actually don't mind the I-35 E/W thing but the others are a bit ridiculous.

[The Ghostbuster]

I couldn't agree more about Interstate 35E/W in Dallas and Fort Worth (as well as 35E/W in Saint Paul and Minneapolis, Minnesota).

[Molandfreak]

At least the 27E/W split follows the same logic as the 35E/W ones, so I don't think that one is the worst thing in the world. All of these suffix spurs are just awful, though.

[Stephane Dumas]

That would be the logical thing to do, but Texas now seems to be obsessed with Interstate Suffixes. As if Interstates 35E/W weren't the only suffixes that should exist in the state of Texas.

Just imagine of other states decide to jump in the bandwagon and even ask to bring back from the dead I-80N, I-80S.