RIP Jonathan Joss

[JayhawkCO]

"Often faced off with weapons" seems like a pretty plausible way to describe one person threatening someone and the other having a baseball bat or something for protection in response. Why not the other way around? Well, because the one who was allegedly threatening was just charged with murder.

Again, I can't say with certainty either way, but Occam's Razor says that there was probably some motive in Mr. Alvarez' actions outside of "just don't like that guy. Want to kill him."

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm curious as to who was calling the police to do mental welfare checks at tbe Joss residence.  Has anyone seen anything regarding who was calling those in?

[formulanone]

Point being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.

Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.

They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.

* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once

Okay, but the statement from the police department reads as though they're actively trying to refute the assertion that this was a hate crime. If they really just didn't know or didn't feel like doing the legwork to go down that prosecution path, they could have simply kept their mouth shut. The decision to make a statement is telling.

Also, it's a police department in Texas - a.k.a. a source that is likely to have a vested political interest in it not being considered a hate crime, so we can't take their word as unbiased.

That said, yes it is possible that the victim being gay is a coincidence and not a motive. We would need to know more details to determine for sure. Those details should at least come out in court one way or another.

That was my suspicion as well, but didn't want to accuse until more information comes out. Having a city getting branded with a higher-profile hate crime is a bad look.

I'm also not going pretend that I know what constitutes which level or type of crime from another.

[SEWIGuy]

https://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r

[thspfc]

https://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r

- tweet
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- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky linked to aaroads

Welcome to the future!

[Molandfreak]

https://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r

- tweet
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- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky
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Welcome to the future!

- said link now quoted twice within AARoads!

[LilianaUwU]

By the way, the linked thread in that has a point. Mainstream media is a mouthpiece of the police, and they repeat police lies (i.e. refuting the claim made by the person who was there and knows what happened) without even mentioning it's a lie.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't know if the police are lying here or not.  It would be terrible if they are hiding a larger crime.  Jonathan Joss certainly didn't deserve to get shot and killed one way or another. 

That said, it sure seems like some of Joss's actions might seem to suggest he had some degree of anger management issues.  It isn't normal to confront your neighbor multiple times with weapons or have the police called  to your home dozens of times (who was calling?).  There isn't a lot of information to go on but it doesn't look like either party was willing to back down from the argument on the day of the murder.  Regardless of the larger motivation that ended up with one person dead. 

[SEWIGuy]

Joss didn't deserve to be murdered and his killer should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Whether or not there was a history of violent confrontations from both parties, or his husband is accurate that the neighbors didn't like them because of their relationship, or maybe a little of both, I am fine waiting until the investigation takes place before having an opinion.

[Brandon]

How long until this thread gets locked?

[hbelkins]

Joss didn't deserve to be murdered and his killer should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Whether or not there was a history of violent confrontations from both parties, or his husband is accurate that the neighbors didn't like them because of their relationship, or maybe a little of both, I am fine waiting until the investigation takes place before having an opinion.

This. Which would include interviewing all witnesses, not just those with an inherent bias, and taking the statement of the accused if he chooses to make one. Plus, it's San Antonio, not some small-town Texas police department.

As I originally said, the scrutiny being applied online by a vocal segment of the population will ensure a thorough investigation.

FWIW, I'd never heard of Joss until this happened.

[kphoger]

By the way, the linked thread in that has a point. Mainstream media is a mouthpiece of the police, and they repeat police lies (i.e. refuting the claim made by the person who was there and knows what happened) without even mentioning it's a lie.

So...  The police lie, therefore their word should not be trusted.  The mainstream media merely publish what the police say without investigating, therefore their word should not be trusted.  But the husband's word should be trusted 100% without question.  Yeah, that's the not the lens through which I view the world.


Tristan's Facebook post (which is not a sworn statement to the police) said that Jonathan "was murdered by someone who could not stand the sight of two men loving each other".  Somewhere around 30% of Americans do not think homosexuality is morally acceptable, and some unknown percentage of those Americans are disturbed loudmouth dickheads with guns.  But that doesn't automatically make every crime committed by them a hate crime.

Maybe this was a hate crime.  But Sigfredo's anti-gay bent doesn't automatically make it one.

Need evidence that there may have been more than just Joss's sexuality at play?  How about the below:

Over the past 36 hours, local residents have recounted tales of Joss having been, alternately, "really sweet," then at times wandering down the street "ranting and raving." One called Joss "erratic," and claimed he told people that "he was God." Another neighbor shared a video with local CBS affiliate KENS, purportedly showing Joss walking back and forth with a pitchfork, screaming. ... "I don't care if me and my husband were walking around with one pitchfork in our hand and another pitchfork up our a**, we didn't point any weapons at anybody," Kern de Gonzales told The Independent.

Police records obtained by NBC News and interviews with Kern de Gonzales and the pair's neighbors paint a complicated picture of what led up to the voice actor's tragic killing. ...

Police were called to respond to incidents at their home more than four dozen times, according to call logs obtained by NBC News, with most of the calls labeled as "disturbances."

One of the pair's neighbors, who asked that their name not be shared due to fear of retaliation, said Joss was difficult to live by.

"He's been a nightmare," the neighbor said.

Kern de Gonzales acknowledged that his husband had a tendency to be "loud."

"Me and Jonathan would be out there late at night playing the drums, singing, being a nuisance," Kern de Gonzales said. "If you're going to make it hard for us to live here, you ain't going to get no sleep." ...

In June 2024, Ceja told police that Joss approached his house with a crossbow and hurled racial slurs at him, according to a separate police report. ...

And in January, Joss accused Ceja of burning their house down, according to police records.

Joss told police that on the morning of the fire, he was using a barbecue in his living room because he did not have heat or electricity, according to the report. However, he said he turned the barbecue off before leaving the house to get lunch.

[kphoger]

I feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".

I feel the need to mention that Joss admitted they had been using a barbecue grill in their living room the morning of the house fire.  They left at noon to get some lunch and, when they returned two hours later, their house was on fire.  Even though they said they were sure they'd extinguished the grill before leaving the house, Joss told reporters, "It was my fault", and, "Very easily it could have started because of my stupidity".  But then, because someone reported having seen Álvarez Ceja on their property the day before, they blamed him for the fire instead.

Technically, I guess, what Kern de Gonzales said is true:  the house did burn down at a chronologically subsequent point in time...

[LilianaUwU]

I don't think the person behind the murder is behind the arson too, if it's even an arson case. It would make sense, don't get me wrong, but this is one thing I'll have to say I don't think is able to be 100% confirmed. It could always be a different neighbor, or as you said, a BBQ mishap.

With that said, the thing with the skull and bones of the dog is fucked up, no matter the intent.

[kphoger]

With that said, the thing with the skull and bones of the dog is fucked up, no matter the intent.

At first, I wondered how they could possibly identify the skull as their dog's.  But then, with the harness being there too, I guess the inference would have been easy to make.

Yeah, whoever did that was one sick dude.

[Big John]

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.  If anything the story just got broken down pretty thoroughly with the currently available information. 

[SEWIGuy]

I don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.  If anything the story just got broken down pretty thoroughly with the currently available information

Right. And everyone has been very respectful here thoughout.

I don't get why people post about locking the topic anyway. If it is inappropriate...report it. If the topic doesn't interest you...ignore it.

[hbelkins]

[youtube]

This contains some information I hadn't heard elsewhere, along with some that I had.

[kphoger]

I don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.

[youtube

Welp, there went that.

(By the way, I'm not about to watch an hour-long video on this.)

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.

[youtube

Welp, there went that.

(By the way, I'm not about to watch an hour-long video on this.)

Yeah...fair chance that was straw that broke the camel's back. 

[Molandfreak]

Matt Walsh is a white nationalist. Linking him has no place here.

[SEWIGuy]

[youtube]

This contains some information I hadn't heard elsewhere, along with some that I had.

Jeez. Thanks for pissing in the pool. Matt Walsh?