New York

[The Ghostbuster]

The remainder of the Inner Loop is planned to be demolished in the future: https://www.innerloopnorth.com/.

[roadman65]

What gets me is no one ever addresses the fact railroads divide neighborhoods as much as freeways.

Yet cities don't protest publicly or privately that neighborhoods are also split by them as well.

[RobbieL2415]

That was pretty much a given after the southern half was removed.

Also, did the Lake Ontario State Parkway get renamed? GMaps calls it the Great Lakes Seaway Trail.

[RobbieL2415]

What gets me is no one ever addresses the fact railroads divide neighborhoods as much as freeways.

Yet cities don't protest publicly or privately that neighborhoods are also split by them as well.

Well, railroads don't take up nearly as large a land footprint as freeways do. A double-tracked mainline might need a 30ft ROW, but a four-lane urban Interstate might need double that or more. Like you could fit that mainline into the footprint on one side of that four-lane Interstate.

[vdeane]

Is a bigger mystery to why they didn't use air rights above the former removed Inner Loop in Rochester considering the filled in below grade freeway is now developed with buildings including a hotel

All these new structures could have been built above the former Inner Loop and the same results would be achieved.

Unless the traffic counts were way too low and deemed cost prohibitive to maintain a tunnel, it would be maybe merited to do so.

It would still take up land because you'd need to keep the other frontage road and room for the ramps.  And it only had an AADT ~6000 - less than 10% of I-81's.

That was pretty much a given after the southern half was removed.

Also, did the Lake Ontario State Parkway get renamed? GMaps calls it the Great Lakes Seaway Trail.

No, Google's just being stupid (as usual) with respect to names.  The Seaway Trail byway has followed the Parkway since forever.  This is just like how many local street names have been blasted out of Google Maps in favor of "Empire State Trail" on the on-road portions.

[Rothman]

Is a bigger mystery to why they didn't use air rights above the former removed Inner Loop in Rochester considering the filled in below grade freeway is now developed with buildings including a hotel

All these new structures could have been built above the former Inner Loop and the same results would be achieved.

Unless the traffic counts were way too low and deemed cost prohibitive to maintain a tunnel, it would be maybe merited to do so.

A bit easier to build on ground rather than over a tunnel, especially on a freeway that was deemed useless.

[vdeane]

I was poking around on Google Maps near Binghamton today and noticed that I-81's new exit numbers are mostly there.  However, there's a bit of an oddity.  While Google has NY 17 as exit 13A and US 11 as 13B as expected when heading north, heading south it has US 11 as exit 14.  Did the numbers change when they were putting the signs up?  I also found a news report referencing "exit 13" which could suggest that southbound US 11 is exit 14 and NY 17 is exit 13 (NY 17's number isn't marked southbound on Google Maps), but that report also references "exit 72" on NY 17 east, so that doesn't prove anything (it's exit 72A and exit 72B heading EB).  Has anyone been down there since the signs changed?  I'm wondering if this is just a Google Maps error or if the exit numbers are different than we were expecting.

[kramie13]

Even more weird, Google Maps is listing the exit for NY 7 as exit 12 going north but exit 4A going south.

If I measure the distance on Google Maps from the PA state line on I-81 NB, the Broad Ave exit is exactly 12 miles from the state line but is marked as exit 11.  In my opinion, it should be exit 12A with NY 7 exit 12B.

The US 11 exit just north of the western I-86/NY 17 interchange should be exit 14 in both directions.

Lastly, the exit renumbering on I-81 in the Binghamton area eliminates the existence of northbound exit 3 and southbound exit 3 being three miles apart and serving completely different roads!  Now they are exit 9 (SB) and 11 (should be 12A) NB.

[vdeane]

Even more weird, Google Maps is listing the exit for NY 7 as exit 12 going north but exit 4A going south.

If I measure the distance on Google Maps from the PA state line on I-81 NB, the Broad Ave exit is exactly 12 miles from the state line but is marked as exit 11.  In my opinion, it should be exit 12A with NY 7 exit 12B.

The US 11 exit just north of the western I-86/NY 17 interchange should be exit 14 in both directions.

Lastly, the exit renumbering on I-81 in the Binghamton area eliminates the existence of northbound exit 3 and southbound exit 3 being three miles apart and serving completely different roads!  Now they are exit 9 (SB) and 11 (should be 12A) NB.

They haven't gotten all of the exit numbers updated on Google Maps.  There are random old numbers still showing, especially southbound.  Note that NYSDOT uses the "round down" method, which is why US 11 is 13B instead of 14 (at least NB).  And the MUTCD allows for fudging by 1 to avoid suffixes, although this usually hasn't been happening on I-81-associated exit number changes, but may have happened for exit 11 (or maybe the start of the ramp diverges at 11.99).  I'm fine with exit 11, if anything I would have 13A as just 13 and 13B as 14 (even if US 11 crosses at MP 13.8).  I just don't know if they decided to change the number SB, which is why I'm asking.

[baugh17]

The US 11 exit is marked as Exit 13B in both directions per my travels through Binghamton in the past week.

Even more weird, Google Maps is listing the exit for NY 7 as exit 12 going north but exit 4A going south.

If I measure the distance on Google Maps from the PA state line on I-81 NB, the Broad Ave exit is exactly 12 miles from the state line but is marked as exit 11.  In my opinion, it should be exit 12A with NY 7 exit 12B.

The US 11 exit just north of the western I-86/NY 17 interchange should be exit 14 in both directions.

Lastly, the exit renumbering on I-81 in the Binghamton area eliminates the existence of northbound exit 3 and southbound exit 3 being three miles apart and serving completely different roads!  Now they are exit 9 (SB) and 11 (should be 12A) NB.

They haven't gotten all of the exit numbers updated on Google Maps.  There are random old numbers still showing, especially southbound.  Note that NYSDOT uses the "round down" method, which is why US 11 is 13B instead of 14 (at least NB).  And the MUTCD allows for fudging by 1 to avoid suffixes, although this usually hasn't been happening on I-81-associated exit number changes, but may have happened for exit 11 (or maybe the start of the ramp diverges at 11.99).  I'm fine with exit 11, if anything I would have 13A as just 13 and 13B as 14 (even if US 11 crosses at MP 13.8).  I just don't know if they decided to change the number SB, which is why I'm asking.

[vdeane]

I-690/NY 690 isn't quite finished with its initial changeover, it seems; Van Buren Road still doesn't have a posted exit number and WB exits 6 and 7 have not changed.  There's also still a couple rogue exit 6 signs still around EB (one is a random overhead that doesn't have its new tab, the other is the gore, with is especially interesting as the exit 10 gore is right behind it, waiting for the exit 6 one to be removed and stop blocking it).  The fold-up signs for the State Fair were unfolded for this exercise, so I got to see (and photograph) the button copy signs with overlays for the new numbers.

Current and future I-81 also have new signs going up, including exit 90 for I-90.

[Jim]

I had my first experience with the new I-81 exit numbers between Syracuse and Cortland yesterday.  Everything looked to have been updated very consistently.  A handful of billboards I noticed are unsurprisingly referencing the old numbers.

In the Syracuse area, things are pretty messy with a mix of old and new exit numbers and some signs that are either now obsolete or are ahead of the reality of the situation.  NB approaching what is now I-481's south junction was especially confusingly inconsistent with I-81 being signed as the exit or I-481 being signed as the exit.

[Rothman]

I had my first experience with the new I-81 exit numbers between Syracuse and Cortland yesterday.  Everything looked to have been updated very consistently.  A handful of billboards I noticed are unsurprisingly referencing the old numbers.

In the Syracuse area, things are pretty messy with a mix of old and new exit numbers and some signs that are either now obsolete or are ahead of the reality of the situation.  NB approaching what is now I-481's south junction was especially confusingly inconsistent with I-81 being signed as the exit or I-481 being signed as the exit.

You forgot to mention the duplicative overheads on current I-81/future BL-81 at I-90 and 7th North.

[D-Dey65]

I've got a question for anybody who has ever been to Jones Beach before the 1980's.

I've seen the toll booth for the beach on the Wantagh State Parkway, and I've the one on the Meadowbrook State Parkway. But who here has seen the toll booth on Loop Parkway?

Because since I always came from the east to go to the beach, I never have. I actually had to remind myself with Historic Aerials that they were located just before the ramps on the trumpet interchange with Meadowbrook State Parkway.

https://historicaerials.com/?layer=map&zoom=12&lat=40.590833&lon=-73.58

Oh, and another thing;

These trees blocking the sign, is why road sign gantries are needed.

[D-Dey65]

What gets me is no one ever addresses the fact railroads divide neighborhoods as much as freeways.

Yet cities don't protest publicly or privately that neighborhoods are also split by them as well.

Well, railroads don't take up nearly as large a land footprint as freeways do. A double-tracked mainline might need a 30ft ROW, but a four-lane urban Interstate might need double that or more. Like you could fit that mainline into the footprint on one side of that four-lane Interstate.

Yes, but a four-track mainline can take up as much space as a freeway. The Metro-North Hudson Line in places like Morris Heights and University Heights also contains leftover industrial sidings and the ROW for the former Putnam Branch, so it wouldn't surprise me if it were wider than the Major Deegan Expressway.

[SignBridge]

I've got a question for anybody who has ever been to Jones Beach before the 1980's.

I've seen the toll booth for the beach on the Wantagh State Parkway, and I've the one on the Meadowbrook State Parkway. But who here has seen the toll booth on Loop Parkway?

Because since I always came from the east to go to the beach, I never have. I actually had to remind myself with Historic Aerials that they were located just before the ramps on the trumpet interchange with Meadowbrook State Parkway.

https://historicaerials.com/?layer=map&zoom=12&lat=40.590833&lon=-73.58

Oh, and another thing;

These trees blocking the sign, is why road sign gantries are needed.

Oh, you think the signs should be clearly visible and not be obstructed by bushes ? Hmmm.......

[The Ghostbuster]

Has the Cross-County Parkway exit renumbering project begun yet? If not, does anyone know when might it begin?

[vdeane]

Has the Cross-County Parkway exit renumbering project begun yet? If not, does anyone know when might it begin?

The schedule on the public site says construction is 2025-27.  That seems like a long time span, but the signs are all overhead, so that might lengthen things.  There are three other projects for the parkway next year, so they might be coordinating among all of them.

[vdeane]

I sent an email to DOT regarding the I-81 mile-based exit number conversion in Jefferson County since I've been getting worried that they might not be done by the time I'll be in the Thousand Islands this year (I was planning on getting a whole set of photos while there), and it seems that I was right to be.  There's a chance they might not be done until next year!

Work orders have been prepared for this project and we are hopeful that the Contractor will be able to start working on them later this summer.  Depending on the Contractor's availability and schedule, it's possible that some work may need to be completed in the 2026 construction season, if they aren't able to finish it all this year.

[cu2010]

I sent an email to DOT regarding the I-81 mile-based exit number conversion in Jefferson County since I've been getting worried that they might not be done by the time I'll be in the Thousand Islands this year (I was planning on getting a whole set of photos while there), and it seems that I was right to be.  There's a chance they might not be done until next year!

Work orders have been prepared for this project and we are hopeful that the Contractor will be able to start working on them later this summer.  Depending on the Contractor's availability and schedule, it's possible that some work may need to be completed in the 2026 construction season, if they aren't able to finish it all this year.

I still fail to understand how the exit number conversion has to be so dysfunctional. What's the point of having a NYSDOT home office if each region does whatever the f*** they want anyways? Why even have standards?

[Rothman]

I sent an email to DOT regarding the I-81 mile-based exit number conversion in Jefferson County since I've been getting worried that they might not be done by the time I'll be in the Thousand Islands this year (I was planning on getting a whole set of photos while there), and it seems that I was right to be.  There's a chance they might not be done until next year!

Work orders have been prepared for this project and we are hopeful that the Contractor will be able to start working on them later this summer.  Depending on the Contractor's availability and schedule, it's possible that some work may need to be completed in the 2026 construction season, if they aren't able to finish it all this year.

I still fail to understand how the exit number conversion has to be so dysfunctional. What's the point of having a NYSDOT home office if each region does whatever the f*** they want anyways? Why even have standards?

Heh.  See CalTrans.

[Roadgeek Adam]

I still fail to understand how the exit number conversion has to be so dysfunctional. What's the point of having a NYSDOT home office if each region does whatever the f*** they want anyways? Why even have standards?

Welcome to the Taconic renumbering redux.

[vdeane]

I still fail to understand how the exit number conversion has to be so dysfunctional. What's the point of having a NYSDOT home office if each region does whatever the f*** they want anyways? Why even have standards?

Welcome to the Taconic renumbering redux.

The Taconic was all Region 8, so no issues with coordinating between different regions.  And since it didn't have exit numbers prior to getting the current mile-based numbers, the fact that Columbia County was done significantly later (which is what I assume you're talking about) wasn't a huge issue.  I-81 is on a whole new level.

[Roadgeek Adam]

The Taconic was done in two separate contracts (Westchester only and the rest), for some reason. It also took forever to get the second half done.

[vdeane]

I saw the Thruway's post on rehabbing the exit 31 bridge over Genesee Street which reminded me that the slides from the NYSAMPO Conference presentation on the Exit 31 PEL Study are publicly available.  See below.  The concepts are similar to some of the things we discussed, except the eastbound connections are MUCH further east - to the point where I-90 EB would lose access to I-790 entirely wile I-90 WB would get direct access.

I asked if they're looking at improving access to NY 49 to the west, and they aren't (the stated reason is that it would go against the goal of reducing the footprint of the ramps).

https://www.nysmpos.org/_files/ugd/3ff9d0_983bb43f9f2e4262a8f7309cf748a0b5.pdf