New York

[crispy93]

The state must be worried about its budget... I haven't seen this many state troopers on the Thruway since the Great Recession.

Saw six trooper cruisers in LaFayette that had pulled over a car each for speeding through a temporary work zone this past week.

I drove down to Yonkers for the day yesterday, only cop I saw was a trooper ticketing a motorcycle. Otherwise, it was the typical 70 mph raceway down the Taconic/Sprain.

And I found more old signs once I got near the Yonkers train station, here's the remnants of a US 9/NY 9A sign with the old-type "flaired" arrow. Anyone know when they stopped using this design? https://maps.app.goo.gl/P7ragKyLoQuf1eSTA

And a sign for NY-9A "east" (the janky assembly it replaced correctly said "south": https://maps.app.goo.gl/2QHyKTaY9gAPEjfq5

[crispy93]

Has the Cross-County Parkway exit renumbering project begun yet? If not, does anyone know when might it begin?

I was on the parkway yesterday (westbound between the Bronx River and the Saw Mill). The only construction I saw was a white tarp covering this abandoned pedestrian bridge. I can't seem to find any history on it: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dCvZ1zkoRuXv7yea7

Also on the Cross County... was this ever an onramp or is it just an area for county cops to sit? https://maps.app.goo.gl/xvUvb9o4Bj6drsD58

[Jim]

Here in Amsterdam, we had some of the last if not the last spelled-out New York routes on green signs.  This one went in the bridge rehab a few years ago (that also wrecked traffic on the bridge at busy times by cutting a northbound lane way too early):


(taken November 5, 2016)

but this one remains on the EB New York 5 arterial behind the mall, a bit before the route joins East Main:


(taken September 15, 2017)

I recently noticed that it has been modified:


(taken this morning from the pedestrian bridge to Riverlink Park)

At some point, this segment would no longer be New York 5 if the plans ever come to reality to remove the arterial just west of there and the ramp from the bridge to take NY 30 NB to NY 5 EB traffic that would pass under that sign. But as of now, that segment still carries New York 5 East (though so does the formerly WB-only arterial according to some signs).  Not sure what the rush was to modify that sign.  I'll have to look more carefully to see if NY 30 NB to NY 5 EB is still signed to take that ramp on the bridge.  I think it is.

Does anyone know if that was the last instance out there of a route like "N Y 5" spelled out?

[baugh17]

Does anyone know if that was the last instance out there of a route like "N Y 5" spelled out?

Ones that come to mind...

Has the overhead for NY 27A at the south end of NY 231 been replaced?  It was still posted in 2023 when I was last down there (GSV is from 2021).
http://newyorkroutes.net/images/photos/routes/231/231-00000s1.JPG

NY 22 on the Cross County was still posted as of December 2024 per GSV, but aren't the signs in the process of being replaced?
http://newyorkroutes.net/images/photos/routes/pwxco/pwxco-00300e.JPG

And NY 14A on NY 14 north of Watkins Glen, although it is not of classic vintage (The sign was installed in 1993).  Still posted as of July 2023.
http://newyorkroutes.net/images/photos/routes/014/014-03332n1.JPG

[crispy93]

Does anyone know if that was the last instance out there of a route like "N Y 5" spelled out?

There's this "US 9" sign in Poughkeepsie. It replaces an identical one that had "US 9" spelled out: https://maps.app.goo.gl/U3UkGLvZV1b9LadW9
Another "US 9" at the end of NY 113 approaching IBM: https://maps.app.goo.gl/qUeZEtP2QKbZDtrp6
This one is gone, but it was an interesting use of the exit tab: https://maps.app.goo.gl/wdELRvZuzKWbao6B9

I seem to recall a few on NY 100 in Yonkers, here's one of the survivors: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pBjjr5tWhSojPB8W6
A replace-in-kind in Briarcliff Manor: https://maps.app.goo.gl/WXqmoqsonFcmJ6gp6

Bonus, there are all-text "US 9W" signs on the Palisades Parkway, but the NJ section. 

[shadyjay]

In addition to the one linked above by crispy93 in Poughkeepsie, there's an identical "US 9" one EB coming across the bridge into town that most definitely replaced one which also had "US 9" spelled out. 
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7021762,-73.9390259,3a,60.7y,93.77h,85.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCIHM0ogKEICAgIDaqbyySA!2e10!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fgpms-cs-s%2FAB8u6Hbx6IYTQlvzVuz4bpErvXy_ZrdJnQYytyPE6Hn6mByRHUbexblNU2nvS404zUEDmq2YwMNqkQiF5CulWLhBitf0d6Jb00-c-jlQy72VGZPXIjuKl_GDN2oXcOKYrSeIn_lt8jQH%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi4.442581700026125-ya16.13795373279028-ro0-fo100!7i7680!8i3840!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDcwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D


There's also this gem up in Plattsburgh I recall seeing a few years back.  Not only does it have "NY 22" spelled out, but also "Adirondack Northway", complete with a button copy I-87 shield. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7173424,-73.4723691,3a,46.9y,93.23h,84.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKPQQbHjDQoPA5jpTYRsceA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D5.123790518073179%26panoid%3DKPQQbHjDQoPA5jpTYRsceA%26yaw%3D93.22686680366947!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDcwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Those button copy I-shields are getting harder to find in NY.  I-287 still has a few down near White Plains/I-684. 

[Rothman]

The state must be worried about its budget... I haven't seen this many state troopers on the Thruway since the Great Recession.

Saw six trooper cruisers in LaFayette that had pulled over a car each for speeding through a temporary work zone this past week.

Weren't speed cameras supposed to solve the budget woes manpower distribution?

Only so many units available to NYSDOT and they take time to set up.  This work zone wasn't going to be around for long.

[crispy93]

Those button copy I-shields are getting harder to find in NY.  I-287 still has a few down near White Plains/I-684. 

There's an overhead 684 button copy on the Saw Mill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PtMV7nFTbTuxEB5R7
And the northbound pull-through is button copy: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4Rx2B4JapsfU1bFg9

[cockroachking]

Those button copy I-shields are getting harder to find in NY.  I-287 still has a few down near White Plains/I-684. 

There's an overhead 684 button copy on the Saw Mill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PtMV7nFTbTuxEB5R7
And the northbound pull-through is button copy: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4Rx2B4JapsfU1bFg9

Top one is going bye-bye soon (next few months or so). Bottom one will be around for a little longer. Neither I-684 shield appears to be button copy, however, like the ones on I-287.

[crispy93]

Those button copy I-shields are getting harder to find in NY.  I-287 still has a few down near White Plains/I-684. 

There's an overhead 684 button copy on the Saw Mill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PtMV7nFTbTuxEB5R7
And the northbound pull-through is button copy: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4Rx2B4JapsfU1bFg9

Top one is going bye-bye soon (next few months or so). Bottom one will be around for a little longer. Neither I-684 shield appears to be button copy, however, like the ones on I-287.

Is this one? https://maps.app.goo.gl/2LoczxWF1rpr4EcN6

Regarding the 684 signs, I emailed the projects email about a sign project that I found on their site. It mentioned sign replacements for the Saw Mill and 684, so I asked if either road will be getting mile-based exits in this project. Let's see what they say.

[The Ghostbuster]

I hope they do include mileage-based exit numbers, so they can remove this statement from Wikipedia's Interstate 684 page: "I-684's exit numbers are sequential. While NYSDOT is transitioning to mileage-based numbers, there are no announced plans to convert I-684 exit numbers."

[cockroachking]

Those button copy I-shields are getting harder to find in NY.  I-287 still has a few down near White Plains/I-684. 

There's an overhead 684 button copy on the Saw Mill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PtMV7nFTbTuxEB5R7
And the northbound pull-through is button copy: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4Rx2B4JapsfU1bFg9

Top one is going bye-bye soon (next few months or so). Bottom one will be around for a little longer. Neither I-684 shield appears to be button copy, however, like the ones on I-287.

Is this one? https://maps.app.goo.gl/2LoczxWF1rpr4EcN6

Regarding the 684 signs, I emailed the projects email about a sign project that I found on their site. It mentioned sign replacements for the Saw Mill and 684, so I asked if either road will be getting mile-based exits in this project. Let's see what they say.

That I-87 definitely looks like button copy to me.

Regarding the signs, D265342/PIN 8815.99 (plans here) is only touching 5 overhead sign structures along the I-684 corridor (and adding a tiny panel to another on the Taconic). No renumbering beyond the Cross County is in the forecast to my knowledge, and it is unlikely that PIN 8815.68 (I-684/Saw Mill sign replacements) will include them either. Estimate for 8815.68 is $3 million for two ~30-mile-long corridors, whereas the low bid for the Cross County project (less than 5 miles) was almost $14 million.

[vdeane]

Regarding the signs, D265342/PIN 8815.99 (plans here) is only touching 5 overhead sign structures along the I-684 corridor (and adding a tiny panel to another on the Taconic). No renumbering beyond the Cross County is in the forecast to my knowledge, and it is unlikely that PIN 8815.68 (I-684/Saw Mill sign replacements) will include them either. Estimate for 8815.68 is $3 million for two ~30-mile-long corridors, whereas the low bid for the Cross County project (less than 5 miles) was almost $14 million.

What's interesting is that those plans don't show much in the way of sign plans - just sign structure plans.  I wonder if they're moving the existing signs over and then replacing them in the future project.  The Cross County signs are all overhead, so if they're replacing the gantries as part of it (and those gantries look old), that will drive up the cost.  A lot.  Also remember that the Cross County has a LOT of exits in a short stretch and even a quad carriageway section.

[dgolub]

Has the overhead for NY 27A at the south end of NY 231 been replaced?  It was still posted in 2023 when I was last down there (GSV is from 2021).
http://newyorkroutes.net/images/photos/routes/231/231-00000s1.JPG

NY 22 on the Cross County was still posted as of December 2024 per GSV, but aren't the signs in the process of being replaced?
http://newyorkroutes.net/images/photos/routes/pwxco/pwxco-00300e.JPG

These two are both in my neck of the woods.  Unless they've been replaced very recently, they're both still there.

[crispy93]

I hope they do include mileage-based exit numbers, so they can remove this statement from Wikipedia's Interstate 684 page: "I-684's exit numbers are sequential. While NYSDOT is transitioning to mileage-based numbers, there are no announced plans to convert I-684 exit numbers."

Region 8 responded to me, the exit numbers will not be changed. The plans linked below show that it's more centered around the 684/35/Saw Mill interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

Yesterday, Google Maps showed the location of the Midtown Manhattan shooting by the former football player targeting the NFL, but it is gone today.

[vdeane]

The final report for the I-787 PEL study is out!  Now begins the environmental review...

https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/reimagining-i-787

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/state-releases-final-i-787-study-20800981.php

https://wnyt.com/top-stories/hochul-determined-to-turn-part-of-787-into-new-albany-riverfront/

[froggie]

^ Looking at the revised concepts, my preference would be for I-3, *IF* they include a local-access/bike/ped bridge across the river in the vicinity of the existing Dunn Memorial Bridge.  I think having a bridge at the existing location is warranted to retain access between Albany and the train station without a ~2 mile detour.

That said, I would be open to Boulevard concepts B-1 or B-4 *IF* they worked to further reduce the number of traffic signals along the Boulevard route and implemented a "Green Wave".  IMO, for B-1 they could keep Church St grade separated (like it is for B-4) and drop the signals at Ferry and Columbia Streets.  That would reduce it down to 5.  The only real change I would make to B-4 would be to drop the signal at Columbia, which would make it just 3 signals.

[kalvado]

^ Looking at the revised concepts, my preference would be for I-3, *IF* they include a local-access/bike/ped bridge across the river in the vicinity of the existing Dunn Memorial Bridge.  I think having a bridge at the existing location is warranted to retain access between Albany and the train station without a ~2 mile detour.

That said, I would be open to Boulevard concepts B-1 or B-4 *IF* they worked to further reduce the number of traffic signals along the Boulevard route and implemented a "Green Wave".  IMO, for B-1 they could keep Church St grade separated (like it is for B-4) and drop the signals at Ferry and Columbia Streets.  That would reduce it down to 5.  The only real change I would make to B-4 would be to drop the signal at Columbia, which would make it just 3 signals.

Rail bridge is supposed to have pedestrian and bike accomodations. Problem is that Hudson is navigable, so bridge has to be either pretty high or openable for ship traffic. Climbing is less of a problem for motorized vehicles.

[The Ghostbuster]

I don't have a preference whether alternatives I-2 or I-3 should be constructed, but I would oppose the boulevard alternatives. I am not a fan of freeway-to-boulevard conversions, unless the freeway is heavily underutilized, which I don't think is the case with Interstate 787.

[The Ghostbuster]

A story on Interstate 787 has appeared in the Albany Times Union: https://www.timesunion.com/churchill/article/churchill-another-step-toward-remaking-albany-s-20812151.php. Since there is a paywall, here is the text in full:

When I feel pessimistic about whether Interstate 787 will ever be remade, at least during my lifetime, I try to remind myself how far we've come.

Even a decade ago, the idea of ditching and replacing the elevated, waterside highway was novel, if not kooky. It was a concept embraced by a goofball columnist and some tree huggers, but not by practical, realistic people. It was a pipe dream.

By that measurement, the newly released state Department of Transportation report on the potential remake of 787 is undeniable progress, unless you're one of those people who believe the highway should remain as it is. The study acknowledges that 787 is a problem and, if you read between the lines, a mistake.

While noting that the roadway is vital to the movement of people and goods, it says portions of 787's nine-mile Hudson River corridor "are overbuilt and overly complex." The report also says the highway hinders waterfront access, which is obvious, and negatively "influences the character and economic vitality" of the communities along its route, Albany most notably.

In other words, 787 is ... not good.

That isn't just my opinion. That's the Department of Transportation talking!

What's more, DOT's study examined nine potential futures for 787 and ruled out leaving the highway as it is, an acknowledgment that the status quo can't stand and things must be done. And one of those things, it turns out, is rebuilding the Dunn Memorial Bridge connecting Albany and Rensselaer.

That's because Dunn and its interchange are "oversized and inefficient" and consist of a "complex web of ramps and bridges" that are too expensive to maintain, too big for the amount of traffic, and too damaging to Rensselaer's waterfront.

So, yes, Dunn and the highway must change. We all agree on that now? With cities all around the world successfully remaking waterfront highways, is consensus achieved, the last skeptic converted, the choir crooning to the choir?

"No matter where I go in the Capital Region, one of the first questions I always get from residents and visitors is, 'What are you going to do about I-787?'" said Gov. Kathy Hochul in a news release announcing the report's release. "The answer is the sky's the limit, the time for talk is over and the time for action is now."

Hallelujah! When do the wrecking balls arrive?

Well, not so fast. We're still a long, long way from that kind of action, and, in many respects, the DOT report is more timid than some of us might have wanted. For example, instead of recommending one specific course of action, or even two, it only managed to winnow nine proposals down to five.

Yeesh. Does progress have to be quite so slow?

Two of the remaining options would reconstruct the existing highway, while improving access to the waterfront. The three others offer ways to convert the highway into a boulevard as it runs through Albany, which, if you want my humbly offered opinion, is what should happen. (All five options would remake Dunn.)

As I've said before and will say again, nobody is talking about replacing 787 with a rutted buggy path. A boulevard would keep traffic flowing, albeit more slowly, while opening land for parks and development. It would give Albany a waterfront and rid it of that ruinous tangle of waste and concrete. It would give the city a jolt like nothing else.

What's next? Well, the completion of the DOT study paves the way for ... sigh ... yet another study, a two-year environmental review that will examine the impact of potential changes and will, yawn, blah, blah, blah.

I'll conduct that study right now. Here goes: Reducing the size of 787 and putting more greenery along the Hudson will be good for the environment. Study complete!

Next? Well, probably a few more studies, the commissioning of 17 commissions, and the impaneling of a half-dozen panels, all followed by the biggest pickle of all: Where do we get the few billion dollars needed to pay for this?

That's the question that brings the pessimism crashing down on optimistic heads, eliminating hope and light. That's the question hurled by the skeptics once they've exhausted all other arguments. That's the question that won't be answered soon.

So let's just focus on the progress represented by a DOT report that says, more or less, that Interstate 787 is a problem. With that, the pipe dream feels a little more real.

[kalvado]

A story on Interstate 787 has appeared in the Albany Times Union: Churchill: Another step toward remaking 787's tangle of waste. Since there is a paywall, here is the text in full:
(clipped)

Today's breaking news:
Water is wet!!! Sky is blue!!! Chris Churchill wrote that he dislikes 787!!!!

Good thing about Churchill is that he passionately believes in whatever he writes. Sometimes he believes in strange things, though.

[cockroachking]

I really don't quite understand all of the hate for I-787 when there are a lot of worse offenders out there (like I-81 in Syracuse). This is especially the case since the railroad tracks were there first and will still be there after even if the freeway is removed, as others have previously mentioned.

That being said, I can certainly understand why non-roadgeeks wouldn't exactly be too enamored with the aesthetics of the circle stack and the Dunn Memorial Bridge (though I think they look cool). I can't help but wonder if public opinion would be the same if the fascia girders didn't have web stiffeners and were painted a nice blue instead.

Needless to say, I would much prefer to see I-787 remain a freeway, but they can do whatever they want with the circle stack and the South Mall Arterial for all I care. Anything different than now would be a much more welcoming entrance to the city for an outsider.

[kalvado]

I really don't quite understand all of the hate for I-787 when there are a lot of worse offenders out there (like I-81 in Syracuse).

My personal opinion: 787 is a symbol of ol'good times being gone, so it's more about bringing better times back than having 787 gone per se.
Albany got hit  with many problems since WWII. Industry - steelworks industry, thriving on MA ore and canal traffic at some point, is now gone,  and Erie canal related businesses are gone as canal became all but abandoned. White flight and redlining. Demolition of a good chunk for a government complex (empire state plaza).
Somewhat oddly, there are no jobs for downtown folks (blue collars) while a lot of state white collars are commuting from suburbs.  All this puts city in an odd spot. 787, as a significant suburban commute road, is definitely a part of it.

The message is that once 787 is gone there will be a lot of land for development (with little current interest for land parcels in the city core) and an access to glorious river (project to stop dumping raw sewage into Hudson is underway, and there is little demand for river access on the other side in Troy, where it's not obstructed by a highway).

in addition big stack interchange to a Dunn bridge (along with an exit 6 interchange on I-90) was built in anticipation  of another 3DI through downtown - which never materialized...

I don't see a good way to untangle that without a very sizeable number of new jobs, at least partially blue collar type. Highway removal without that may or may not help. And my bet is that it wouldn't.