California's Slow Walk of Repairing Highway 1 In Big Sur

[Quillz]

I've lived in California for just about 25 years, and it really seems to me that in the last decade or so, a lot more roads that are closed by slides and similar events are staying closed for a really long time. It isn't all Caltrans, either. In addition to Big Sur route 1, there's Nacimiento Ferguson Rd, there's Scotty's Castle Rd, Titus Canyon Rd, and Wildrose Rd in Death Valley, there's historic US-66 between Amboy and Fenner, there's Kings Canyon Rd, there's Angeles Crest Hwy, ... Most aren't critical roads, but it seemed like roads like that would be fixed, say, within a year, but now it's two or three.

It makes me wonder if the cost of repairing roads has grown much faster than inflation, perhaps due to environmental regs or union contracts, and so projects are languishing for lack of money.

It could be that, I'm sure that plays a role. It's also likely a case that doing the same thing over and over again is going to cause the same results. You can repair CA-1 along Big Sur like you always do, then the next rock slide happens and the road is closed again. So things are probably going slower because there might be different ideas being considered, new plans being enacted, etc.

And there are only so many resources. Obviously things like the Palisades Fire haven't helped, CA-27 had an unrelated rock slide a while back before the fires, Caltrans is probably being stretched quite a bit. And as I alluded to earlier, there's also the public pressure. Obviously they want the road open as soon as possible, but if it opens and then fails again, it'll just be a case of "why didn't they fix it properly?"

Another thing to consider is changes in driving patterns and just cars in general. A lot of the roads that have issues were roads built when the population was lower, the traffic patterns were different, and cars were generally lighter and not as wide. You can't really expect a road that might have been built in the 1930s to hold up all that well to modern traffic. And in many of these areas, you can't just expand them and add more lanes.

[DTComposer]

FWIW:

https://www.ksbw.com/article/closures-highway-1-in-big-sur-full-reopening/68005388

[Max Rockatansky]

I forgot to post about that myself.  Assuming the reopening goes as planned I might have to up my idea for a Monterey/Big Sur Meet to 2026 instead of 2027.

[Max Rockatansky]

A member of this forum on vacation from out east was out in Big Sur this week.  He was able to travel between both sides of the closure on 1 in 4.5 hours taking Nacimiento-Ferguson Road and stopping to lunch in Salinas.  That time might dip a little under 4 hours if Carmel Valley Road was incorporated into the backtrack.

[michravera]

Didn't one of the slides keep moving after they were about to begin construction, thus requiring the use of robots to resume work?

The concern I see is that someone at Caltrans might get the idea in their head that CA 1 should be permanently closed in Big Sur if a particular set of circumstance arises.  The reason a permanent closure hasn't happened is probably due to the popularity of the highway as a driver of tourism.  I'm not buying the narrative that this highway should be treated by the same standards as expressways or freeways.  It is an older corridor located in hostile terrain that was intended to be scenic and to that end is always going to require constant effort to keep open. 

That said, I'll stand by what I said already in this thread.  If you want CA 1 in Big Sur to yourself and everything associated with it, now is the time to visit.

Why shouldn't it be permanently closed? Yes it's a tourism draw, but so are other parts of PCH. It would be cheaper to completely demolish and replace every major bridge in the Bay Area than it would be to keep rebuilding PCH.

And for those wondering, I'm on the side of continuing to rebuild PCH. The beauty of the corridor is just as important as keeping any other piece of infrastructure. It will cost tens of billions, but it's essential to the economy IMHO. Tolls, maybe?

FWIW, the segment in Big Sur is Cabrillo Highway and not PCH. 

Caltrans probably would try to close CA 1 if they didn't have an obligation to service the communities in Big Sur.  The agency has been trying to shed non-limited access to mileage for decades.  More so, the attitude towards maintaining conventional highways at a conventional standard has changed.  In the past similar slides would be repaired quickly with temporary measures.  Caltrans seems less willing to take interim measures like the Division of Highways once did. 

A long time ago CA 1 through Big Sur was closed as a through route during winter.  I don't think that would be acceptable by modern expectations but it does speak to how hostile the area can be during the wet season. 

Tolls wouldn't be popular but people would still pay to use CA 1.  I suspect Caltrans isn't too interested in the political backlash of such a proposal.  Pretty much any new toll proposal or even suggestion of VMT gets met with fierce public resistance.  I'm not against the idea of a toll myself.

Two things:
1) Court cases from the 1970s say, in effect. "you can't put a toll on road that was free" and "you can't impose additional restrictions on a road that didn't previously have them". It's considered a "taking" and, without compensation, it violates the 5th amendment to the US Constitution. You can only toll or impose restrictions on new construction. It's mostly settled law.


2) In the grand scheme of things, most of CASR-1 is an "interim measure".

[Max Rockatansky]

But if the road is on a completely new grade is that the case?  In theory all it would take is one major side repair in Big Sur to make a big realignment necessary. 

[pderocco]

I have mixed feelings about this. To really "fix" the problem would require moving staggering amounts of dirt, to eliminate the steep cliffs that produce slides. That might make the road somewhat less scenic. After all, the Mud Creek Slide area isn't very pretty. But there is enough stuff along the coast that we need a road just for the boring reason of needing to get there. And it's not as though there's only one five mile stretch that produces all the problems, and closing that and turning it into two dead ends would solve them.

On the other hand, I find that portion of CA-1 less scenic than a lot of people do, because most of the view is just empty ocean (sometimes filled with fog). The only interesting part is the road itself, which would become less interesting if straightened out, and decorated with rock nets and huge retaining walls.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've always found CA 1 in Big Sur to be the most fun when there aren't tourists on it.  When you're alone on the highway and have a decent handling car there isn't really much out there that can compete with it for a fun drive.  During the Mud Creek Slide years, I was out in the area frequently and had a blast.  Winter during December 2020 was absolutely a sublime time to drive through Big Sur.  I didn't see a single car north of Cambria Pines until around the Bixby Bridge. 

[pderocco]

I've always found CA 1 in Big Sur to be the most fun when there aren't tourists on it.  When you're alone on the highway and have a decent handling car there isn't really much out there that can compete with it for a fun drive.  During the Mud Creek Slide years, I was out in the area frequently and had a blast.  Winter during December 2020 was absolutely a sublime time to drive through Big Sur.  I didn't see a single car north of Cambria Pines until around the Bixby Bridge. 

Sounds like you'd like to keep it closed.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've always found CA 1 in Big Sur to be the most fun when there aren't tourists on it.  When you're alone on the highway and have a decent handling car there isn't really much out there that can compete with it for a fun drive.  During the Mud Creek Slide years, I was out in the area frequently and had a blast.  Winter during December 2020 was absolutely a sublime time to drive through Big Sur.  I didn't see a single car north of Cambria Pines until around the Bixby Bridge. 

Sounds like you'd like to keep it closed.

It wasn't bad when I could make that loop to/from Monterey via Nacimiento-Fergusson Road.  2020 was an outlier with COVID and all those weird county specific restrictions.

[Quillz]

I think the fog over the ocean is what people like about it. That's what I like, especially when playing music that kind of evokes that idea of being alone along the coast.

That said, one thing I've found is I'm not as big on doing it as I used to. A lot of the mystique is driving it once or twice. I also find that some portions of CA-1 through Sonoma and Mendocino Counties are almost as good, with very similar coastal geography.

[Plutonic Panda]

Looks like the reopening is finally near:

https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article313721806.html?link_source=ta_first_comment&taid=69405ad48fc14f00010c1bd2&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwdGRleAOv55tleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEev3xbpAXx1mftGew_t3LrRlGEfKO4pZHqXByfxXRXS77F__8l9I6tGdBsILM_aem_CK4iBguK3KzwEnXvfRxISA

[Max Rockatansky]

Fair chance I'll be out there with the Challenger again this Spring on a weekday if it does in fact reopen on time.  Essentially it is only a 2.25-hour drive to get from the house to one end of Big Sur.

[cahwyguy]

Update (and I didn't want to wait for the headline post): It looks like Route 1 will open Weds 1/14/26 over the Regents Slide:https://www.ksbw.com/article/highway-1-reopens-big-sur-three-year-closure-newsom/69979469

For the first time in three years, Highway 1 will be fully reopened from the Big Sur coastline to San Luis Obispo County.

According to Big Sur Chamber of Commerce President Kirk Gafill, he was told the Regent's Slide area of Highway 1 in Big Sur will reopen fully to all traffic beginning Wednesday afternoon.

This will reconnect through traffic between San Francisco and Los Angeles along the Big Sur coast.

Originally, Caltrans said it would reopen Regent's Slide by the end of March, but on Friday, KSBW 8 was told the work to shore up and stabilize the slide area was complete.

Officials said they may move up the reopening date and have businesses prepare for an influx of visitors.

[Max Rockatansky]

Hmmmm...fall meet for Monterey/Big Sur?

[ElishaGOtis]

Hmmmm...fall meet for Monterey/Big Sur?

Bold of you to assume it'll stay open until then  jk

[Max Rockatansky]

Hmmmm...fall meet for Monterey/Big Sur?

Bold of you to assume it'll stay open until then  jk

We're about to hit the dry season.  Sarcasm aside I've been wracking my brain on how fast we need to move on getting a meet going out in Big Sur post reopening.  My thought is that every winter is gamble on another big slide.  Kind of feels like a now or never thing.

[Max Rockatansky]

Even the Governor's Facebook page is announcing the reopening:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aLcKxbdTUzHVjRvL3wKAgkuAgU3rPLpYembdPMBbwX3MwVrAefMDBSQYntXsBuTol&id=100044216237096&mibextid=wwXIfr

[Plutonic Panda]

Even the Governor's Facebook page is announcing the reopening:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aLcKxbdTUzHVjRvL3wKAgkuAgU3rPLpYembdPMBbwX3MwVrAefMDBSQYntXsBuTol&id=100044216237096&mibextid=wwXIfr

On X they posted this

https://x.com/cagovernor/status/2011507701231337506?s=46

It looks like there's already part of it that is starting to collapse back into the ocean.

[Max Rockatansky]

The reopening at Regent's Slide posted to the Quickmap at 12:01 PM this afternoon. 

[Quillz]

Even the Governor's Facebook page is announcing the reopening:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aLcKxbdTUzHVjRvL3wKAgkuAgU3rPLpYembdPMBbwX3MwVrAefMDBSQYntXsBuTol&id=100044216237096&mibextid=wwXIfr

On X they posted this

https://x.com/cagovernor/status/2011507701231337506?s=46

It looks like there's already part of it that is starting to collapse back into the ocean.

That's nature for you. Erosion is an unstoppable force. 

[pderocco]

Even the Governor's Facebook page is announcing the reopening:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aLcKxbdTUzHVjRvL3wKAgkuAgU3rPLpYembdPMBbwX3MwVrAefMDBSQYntXsBuTol&id=100044216237096&mibextid=wwXIfr

On X they posted this

https://x.com/cagovernor/status/2011507701231337506?s=46

It looks like there's already part of it that is starting to collapse back into the ocean.

That's nature for you. Erosion is an unstoppable force.

Unstoppable in the sense that you can't just build a wall, declare victory, and go home. But nature usually operates slowly, and humans can stay ahead of it if they're willing to bear the burden. Putting riprap along the shore there would stop the erosion, but it would be necessary to keep adding to it every decade or so.

[michravera]

Didn't one of the slides keep moving after they were about to begin construction, thus requiring the use of robots to resume work?

The concern I see is that someone at Caltrans might get the idea in their head that CA 1 should be permanently closed in Big Sur if a particular set of circumstance arises.  The reason a permanent closure hasn't happened is probably due to the popularity of the highway as a driver of tourism.  I'm not buying the narrative that this highway should be treated by the same standards as expressways or freeways.  It is an older corridor located in hostile terrain that was intended to be scenic and to that end is always going to require constant effort to keep open. 

That said, I'll stand by what I said already in this thread.  If you want CA 1 in Big Sur to yourself and everything associated with it, now is the time to visit.

Why shouldn't it be permanently closed? Yes it's a tourism draw, but so are other parts of PCH. It would be cheaper to completely demolish and replace every major bridge in the Bay Area than it would be to keep rebuilding PCH.

And for those wondering, I'm on the side of continuing to rebuild PCH. The beauty of the corridor is just as important as keeping any other piece of infrastructure. It will cost tens of billions, but it's essential to the economy IMHO. Tolls, maybe?

FWIW, the segment in Big Sur is Cabrillo Highway and not PCH. 

Caltrans probably would try to close CA 1 if they didn't have an obligation to service the communities in Big Sur.  The agency has been trying to shed non-limited access to mileage for decades.  More so, the attitude towards maintaining conventional highways at a conventional standard has changed.  In the past similar slides would be repaired quickly with temporary measures.  Caltrans seems less willing to take interim measures like the Division of Highways once did. 

A long time ago CA 1 through Big Sur was closed as a through route during winter.  I don't think that would be acceptable by modern expectations but it does speak to how hostile the area can be during the wet season. 

Tolls wouldn't be popular but people would still pay to use CA 1.  I suspect Caltrans isn't too interested in the political backlash of such a proposal.  Pretty much any new toll proposal or even suggestion of VMT gets met with fierce public resistance.  I'm not against the idea of a toll myself.

I've said it before, Max. "In the grand scheme of things, the whole of CASR-1 is an 'interim measure'."

How many times have we heard "Aftershocks/fires/flooded roads/downed power lines/jacked up electrical grids are hampering rescue efforts"? The whole problem is that fog never happens on a clear day with good visibility.

Well, so it is with CASR-1. Repairing a 400 m section of road for which it is amazing that the engineers found 10 m or right of way to build it in the first place is always going to take time and money. It would be easy, if we didn't mind and could afford building a temporary road through the hills at a reasonable place from US-101 (doing whatever takings and destroying whatever environmentally sensitive areas there may be).

One problem with CASR-1 is that between Morro Bay and Carmel is that, in many places, if you run into trouble near one end, your best escape may be to turn around and retrace up to most of the 150 km. Yeah, there is a forest service road somewhere, but it isn't well signed and I'm not sure that mapping apps even know about it. From Harmony to get to Carmel, Gemini sent me back to CASR-46. It would be much worse from Julia Pfeifer-Burns or, if you were at Harmony and the road was closed southbound heading to Cambria.

[Max Rockatansky]

Pretty much everything is interim if you want to be jaded enough.

Speaking which, I did open a meet thread for October with Big Sur.  It would be a shame to have the road close again and we never have a hobby gathering out there.

[cahwyguy]

Pretty much everything is interim if you want to be jaded enough.

Speaking which, I did open a meet thread for October with Big Sur.  It would be a shame to have the road close again and we never have a hobby gathering out there.

Note that not everyone follows the Meet threads (I certainly don't). For regional things, you should also post something on the regional board.