Minor things that bother you

[PColumbus73]

What's been bothering me a lot recently is how people seem to not signal their turn until either the light turns green, or as they turn. This feels like a new thing, is it?

I generally use my turn signal as I approach the intersection. It's frustrating when I'm trying to make a left and yield (as I'm supposed to) to a car on the other side of the intersection only to flip on their signal and make their turn.

[1995hoo]

What's been bothering me a lot recently is how people seem to not signal their turn until either the light turns green, or as they turn. This feels like a new thing, is it?

I generally use my turn signal as I approach the intersection. It's frustrating when I'm trying to make a left and yield (as I'm supposed to) to a car on the other side of the intersection only to flip on their signal and make their turn.

If I'm the first car on line, I keep my blinker on when I'm in a turn lane. If I'm the last car on line, I keep my blinker on until someone else pulls up behind me, at which time I'll turn it off. If I'm neither first nor last on line, I turn my blinker off while I'm sitting and waiting for the light to turn. But I turn the blinker back on when the light turns green and it's time to go (or if it's a permissive light and I wind up moving up to be first on line).

If it's not a dedicated turn lane (say, you have to turn from a thru lane) or it's an option lane, then I always activate my blinker and keep it on the entire time. In the "option lane" scenario, my thought process is as much to notify people in the lane next to me that I'll be turning as it is to notify anyone coming from a different direction, not that people in the adjacent lane generally seem to notice any such thing.

[hbelkins]

What's been bothering me a lot recently is how people seem to not signal their turn until either the light turns green, or as they turn. This feels like a new thing, is it?

I generally use my turn signal as I approach the intersection. It's frustrating when I'm trying to make a left and yield (as I'm supposed to) to a car on the other side of the intersection only to flip on their signal and make their turn.

If I'm the first car on line, I keep my blinker on when I'm in a turn lane. If I'm the last car on line, I keep my blinker on until someone else pulls up behind me, at which time I'll turn it off. If I'm neither first nor last on line, I turn my blinker off while I'm sitting and waiting for the light to turn. But I turn the blinker back on when the light turns green and it's time to go (or if it's a permissive light and I wind up moving up to be first on line).

If it's not a dedicated turn lane (say, you have to turn from a thru lane) or it's an option lane, then I always activate my blinker and keep it on the entire time. In the "option lane" scenario, my thought process is as much to notify people in the lane next to me that I'll be turning as it is to notify anyone coming from a different direction, not that people in the adjacent lane generally seem to notice any such thing.

Why? Does the "click, click, click" of the turn signal bother you?

[1995hoo]

What's been bothering me a lot recently is how people seem to not signal their turn until either the light turns green, or as they turn. This feels like a new thing, is it?

I generally use my turn signal as I approach the intersection. It's frustrating when I'm trying to make a left and yield (as I'm supposed to) to a car on the other side of the intersection only to flip on their signal and make their turn.

If I'm the first car on line, I keep my blinker on when I'm in a turn lane. If I'm the last car on line, I keep my blinker on until someone else pulls up behind me, at which time I'll turn it off. If I'm neither first nor last on line, I turn my blinker off while I'm sitting and waiting for the light to turn. But I turn the blinker back on when the light turns green and it's time to go (or if it's a permissive light and I wind up moving up to be first on line).

If it's not a dedicated turn lane (say, you have to turn from a thru lane) or it's an option lane, then I always activate my blinker and keep it on the entire time. In the "option lane" scenario, my thought process is as much to notify people in the lane next to me that I'll be turning as it is to notify anyone coming from a different direction, not that people in the adjacent lane generally seem to notice any such thing.

Why? Does the "click, click, click" of the turn signal bother you?

Partly that. Partly because it's pointless to sit there with your blinker on for no reason when you're in the middle of a line of cars waiting to turn. And partly out of cheapness in that I have this theory that the signal bulbs will last longer if they're not kept on for longer periods of time like that (although I suppose my car is over 21 years old and I haven't replaced any of those bulbs yet....).

[Max Rockatansky]

My mom used to talk about how much she hated turn signal blinker noises.  She would turn them off at traffic lights unless she actively was in the process of turning.  When I took her places and had them running at red light she would point how much the noise annoyed her.  I never paid much attention to it myself until she kept bringing it up.

[thspfc]

People that don't "stake out their left turn."

When you're waiting in a left turn lane to turn left at an intersection, "staking out" means pulling forward into the intersection (past the stop line, but not into oncoming traffic) so you're ready to complete the turn when the light changes or when there's a gap. It's a common practice because it signals intent, positions you to turn quickly, and ensures at least one car gets through when the light turns yellow.

People who don't do it sit behind the stop line, waiting for a perfect gap. They often miss the chance to turn, block cars behind them, and waste the cycle. In heavy traffic, this can mean no left turns at all until the next green, frustrating everyone behind.

It is like not RTOR (turning right on red) -- you are not legally required to do it but it is a social violation of traffic expectations if you refuse to do it (assuming it is safe to do so).

A minor thing that bothers me: staking out my left turn and being paralyzed in the middle of an intersection as the light turns yellow, hoping the oncoming vehicles will exercise reasonable judgment as to when they should slow down for a yellow.

In addition, getting abrasively honked at because the car behind me can see past/over a vehicle making an opposing left turn and therefore knows there are no oncoming cars going straight, information I don't have because of the angles of sight.

[kphoger]

I'm no electrical engineer, but I wonder if turning the signal off while just sitting there might lengthen the lifespan of the blinker bulb and/or relay.

(One thing that is undeniable, of course, is that it saves fluid.)

[formulanone]

I'm no electrical engineer, but I wonder if turning the signal off while just sitting there might lengthen the lifespan of the blinker bulb and/or relay.

(One thing that is undeniable, of course, is that it saves fluid.)

If I'm not the lead car or the last vehicle in line for a protected turn, I turn off the signal until I'm at the on-deck circle line.

Modern vehicles use synthetic blinker fluid, which is good for 120,000 blinks. They were formerly measured by fq's (flash cubes), and the federal automotive standard was 57,000 fqs until the metric standards were adopted.

[kphoger]

Modern vehicles use synthetic blinker fluid, which is good for 120,000 blinks. They were formerly measured by fq's (flash cubes), and the federal automotive standard was 57,000 fqs until the metric standards were adopted.

I drive an '02, so it can only use conventional fluid.  But because more modern vehicles use all synthetic, as you mentioned, it's becoming increasingly difficult to find Motorcraft brand fluid—which is why I'm keen to use as little of it as necessary.  The recommended interval for fluid change, per the owner's manual, is 100,000 miles;  I bought it with more than 200,000 miles on it, and I have no idea if the previous owner ever changed out the fluid.  And with no dipstick or other way to check the level without doing a full flush, I've just been assuming it's low.

[wanderer2575]

Speaking of right turn on red:  What bothers me is the norm of those drivers going past the stop line and into the crosswalk without even looking to see if a pedestrian is there to cross on his/her green.  And then the crosswalk is blocked.

[Beltway]

People that don't "stake out their left turn."

This issue has been the topic of various threads in the past. I think the boldfaced definitely depends on where you are. Certainly on urban roads with no turn lanes/turn lights you have to pull out to wait. It can also be more practical to do so where intersection geometry gives you a clear view of traffic coming the other way. But I can think of plenty of intersections where it's harder to see oncoming traffic if you pull out, especially if someone coming the other way does the same thing. At the intersection nearest my house, most of us wait behind the line because it's just plain easier to see and because traffic is often heavy enough that you're not likely to get an opportunity to turn anyway (and there will invariably be at least two red-light runners, one per lane, usually at fairly high speeds, so you'd wind up waiting until several seconds after the light turns red to be able to complete your turn). To put it differently, I know the intersection and the traffic flow after living in this location for over 24 years and making that turn all the time, and the fact that someone who doesn't live in this area may think that pulling out into the box is the better practice as a general matter holds zero weight with me.
What I really hate are the people who think it's OK to pull out more than halfway across the intersection to stage a turn. They render it impossible for anyone to see what's coming in the other direction.

Yes, situations can vary. There are two intersections on a 4-lane arterial that I use daily. A fairly straight and level thoroughfare with left turn lanes. Intersections at about a right angle.

These are ample sized intersections with no problems with visibility. Agreed -- don't pull out more than halfway across the intersection to stage the turn -- there is no need -- and there is space for an oncoming left-turner to also stake out their turn.

This is a situation where proper staging can make the difference between 3 vehicles turning without running red -- or zero.

[Beltway]

If it's not a dedicated turn lane (say, you have to turn from a thru lane) or it's an option lane, then I always activate my blinker and keep it on the entire time. In the "option lane" scenario, my thought process is as much to notify people in the lane next to me that I'll be turning as it is to notify anyone coming from a different direction, not that people in the adjacent lane generally seem to notice any such thing.

Why? Does the "click, click, click" of the turn signal bother you?

Depends on the vehicle. Some it is loud enough to be annoying.

[GaryV]

Some it is loud enough to be annoying.

I rode with my former pastor once. He was quite deaf. Hearing aids did ok for conversations, but not background noise. He had some speaker hooked up for his turn signal. You probably could have heard it outside the car even with the windows closed.

[wanderer2575]

If it's not a dedicated turn lane (say, you have to turn from a thru lane) or it's an option lane, then I always activate my blinker and keep it on the entire time. In the "option lane" scenario, my thought process is as much to notify people in the lane next to me that I'll be turning as it is to notify anyone coming from a different direction, not that people in the adjacent lane generally seem to notice any such thing.

Why? Does the "click, click, click" of the turn signal bother you?

Depends on the vehicle. Some it is loud enough to be annoying.

Not nearly loud enough, considering the number of people driving straight for miles while oblivious to it.

[Scott5114]

The turn signal noise was historically the sound of the actual relay flipping back and forth to turn the light on and off. Newer cars do this with a computer, so the noise is now computer-generated and coming from the speakers (which means it can be made much louder, and even adjusted programmatically to overcome the radio or engine noise at higher speeds).


Minor thing that bothers me: When you go to a chain's website to see if they are a local chain or more widespread, and their "locations" page just has a box to enter a zip code in instead of a list of all locations. Putting in your local zip code will of course show you all the locations in your city, but entering random other zip codes will probably just show nothing in that area, meaning there's no way to get an idea of the general areas they serve. So then you have to rely on some third-party data aggregator like ScrapeHero, and who knows if that's even correct or up-to-date...

[webny99]

People who took one statistics class in college and subsequently believe every situation is like flipping a coin, have no concept of what events are independent and what events are not, and believe any statistical outlier, no matter the context, must be luck and will eventually regress to an average.

I sense some saltiness, perhaps due to current happenings in the NFL. I thought a team going undefeated in one-score games for an entire season was purely because of skill and talent and therefore must be sustainable forever!

[wanderer2575]

People who took one statistics class in college and subsequently believe every situation is like flipping a coin, have no concept of what events are independent and what events are not, and believe any statistical outlier, no matter the context, must be luck and will eventually regress to an average.

That's "lottery logic":  "Hey, either I win or I don't.  That's an even 50-50 chance!"

[SSOWorld]

Pretty much law that you must turn your signal on 100ft prior to your turn.

That being said. If they can't figure out that I'm turning left by where I sit (in a dedicated lane for example), that's their fucking problem. I'm often buried in the left side of a dual left-turn lane and while one must have the signal on even in that position, just like turning left from a one-way street ending at a one-way street. I say FUCK EM!.

That being said. My big pet peeve is anyone who does not signal a lane change!!!!. That, I am adamant about doing religiously - a lane change will impact someone - somewhere because blind spot.

People who took one statistics class in college and subsequently believe every situation is like flipping a coin, have no concept of what events are independent and what events are not, and believe any statistical outlier, no matter the context, must be luck and will eventually regress to an average.

That's "lottery logic":  "Hey, either I win or I don't.  That's an even 50-50 chance!"

Heads I win, Tails you lose.

[webny99]

On left turns and blinker usage, the absolute worst is when there's no dedicated turn lane so you turn your blinker on well in advance and people still pull up behind you completely oblivious to the fact that they could have just gone around in the right lane.

The most egregious cases I can think of are here and here, where NY 286 and NY 441 respectively expand to two westbound lanes, so a fear of changing lanes or inability to do so isn't even an excuse; everyone has literal free choice of which lane to pick, yet actively choosing to pull up and sit behind a left turner for the entire light cycle (and sometimes even two!) in that scenario is a level of incompetence and cluelessness that I cannot even comprehend.

[kkt]

There's one intersection where I'm driving several times a week and I may be turning left and I may not, so I don't turn my signal on until I know I am.  That turn features only a permissive left, not a left phase, and if it's mid to late afternoon there's often so much oncoming traffic that I might sit through a couple of complete cycles before turning.  So if traffic looks that heavy I'll go straight and make three right turns a few blocks later.

[webny99]

There's one intersection where I'm driving several times a week and I may be turning left and I may not, so I don't turn my signal on until I know I am.  That turn features only a permissive left, not a left phase, and if it's mid to late afternoon there's often so much oncoming traffic that I might sit through a couple of complete cycles before turning.  So if traffic looks that heavy I'll go straight and make three right turns a few blocks later.

Savvy. I wonder how many non-roadgeeks would even think of doing that in that situation.

[kphoger]

Speaking of right turn on red:  What bothers me is the norm of those drivers going past the stop line and into the crosswalk without even looking to see if a pedestrian is there to cross on his/her green.  And then the crosswalk is blocked.

I was once walking around the Plaza area of Kansas City with my parents and sister and wife and kids.  We were crossing at a clearly marked crosswalk, and there was a driver who was impeding the crosswalk.  As we walked by, I lightly knocked my knuckles on the car's bumper, as a lowkey way of griping at the driver for it.  After we were on our way, when the light turned green, she then proceeded to follow us for a block and a half, rolled down her window, shouted at me for touching her car, and demanded that I apologize.

The turn signal noise was historically the sound of the actual relay flipping back and forth to turn the light on and off. Newer cars do this with a computer, so the noise is now computer-generated and coming from the speakers (which means it can be made much louder, and even adjusted programmatically to overcome the radio or engine noise at higher speeds).

As I found out in my previous car, this also means that, if you have a short in your speaker wiring somewhere, it affects your ability to hear the turn signal clicks.

That's "lottery logic":  "Hey, either I win or I don't.  That's an even 50-50 chance!"

I used to have a friend who was a math major.  It really bothered him when I'd answer a "what are the chances" question with "fifty-fifty".

[Beltway]

I was once walking around the Plaza area of Kansas City with my parents and sister and wife and kids.  We were crossing at a clearly marked crosswalk, and there was a driver who was impeding the crosswalk.  As we walked by, I lightly knocked my knuckles on the car's bumper, as a lowkey way of griping at the driver for it.  After we were on our way, when the light turned green, she then proceeded to follow us for a block and a half, rolled down her window, shouted at me for touching her car, and demanded that I apologize.

That is the crazy thing about road ragers. They can be blatantly 100% wrong, but if you dare to correct them even mildly they can become violent.

[kphoger]

I was once walking around the Plaza area of Kansas City with my parents and sister and wife and kids.  We were crossing at a clearly marked crosswalk, and there was a driver who was impeding the crosswalk.  As we walked by, I lightly knocked my knuckles on the car's bumper, as a lowkey way of griping at the driver for it.  After we were on our way, when the light turned green, she then proceeded to follow us for a block and a half, rolled down her window, shouted at me for touching her car, and demanded that I apologize.

That is the crazy thing about road ragers. They can be blatantly 100% wrong, but if you dare to correct them even mildly they can become violent.

I did the same thing in the Chicago suburbs once.  I rapped my knuckles on the rear bumper as the driver was about to turn the corner—having cut in front of me through the crosswalk.  He immediately stopped the car, got out, and asked if I was OK.  He thought he had hit me.

[SSOWorld]

Drivers not zipper merging.  but that's a different thread.