Washington

[xonhulu]

US 2 over the Cascades in Washington closed for months.

Due to major damage from the series of storms we've had the past week, US 2 will be closed, probably for several months.  Among those hurt will be people with cabins and ski resorts, and just people who want to get from Leavenworth to Skykomish without detouring via I-90.

https://komonews.com/news/local/governor-ferguson-highway-2-will-be-closed-for-months-due-to-storm-damage-leavenworth-stevens-pass-mountain-travel-road-washington-flood-flooding-repair-wsdor-economy-tourism

Glad I drove it last July.

I drove it for the first time last August on my way to Lake Chelan.  And there I did the bus tour up the Stehekin Valley Rd, which is now also closed due to extensive flood/landslide damage. Crazy!

[pderocco]

US 2 over the Cascades in Washington closed for months.

Due to major damage from the series of storms we've had the past week, US 2 will be closed, probably for several months.  Among those hurt will be people with cabins and ski resorts, and just people who want to get from Leavenworth to Skykomish without detouring via I-90.

https://komonews.com/news/local/governor-ferguson-highway-2-will-be-closed-for-months-due-to-storm-damage-leavenworth-stevens-pass-mountain-travel-road-washington-flood-flooding-repair-wsdor-economy-tourism

Glad I drove it last July.

I drove it for the first time last August on my way to Lake Chelan.  And there I did the bus tour up the Stehekin Valley Rd, which is now also closed due to extensive flood/landslide damage. Crazy!

When I was there in July, I drove up the west side as far as the road went.

So you took the ferry to Stehekin? Isn't that a really slow boat? And how far up does the bus go?

I wish they'd just punch that through to WA-20. They could carve out a narrow corridor through the wilderness area, just like they do in so many other places.

[Rothman]

Heh.  My wife and I honeymooned in Stehekin.

[xonhulu]

When I was there in July, I drove up the west side as far as the road went.

So you took the ferry to Stehekin? Isn't that a really slow boat? And how far up does the bus go?

I was on the fastest boat, which takes about 1.5 hrs each way, with a 6-hr layover in Stehekin. The bus went as far as High Bridge, on the border between the recreation area and national park.

I wish they'd just punch that through to WA-20. They could carve out a narrow corridor through the wilderness area, just like they do in so many other places.

The bus driver said the road only continued about a mile north from High Bridge, but that it used to go a few miles further.

I don't really know what the terrain looks like through there, but a connection from there to the Cascade River Road coming down from WA 20 might be feasible. I doubt we'd ever see it, though.

[Rothman]

When I was there in July, I drove up the west side as far as the road went.

So you took the ferry to Stehekin? Isn't that a really slow boat? And how far up does the bus go?

I was on the fastest boat, which takes about 1.5 hrs each way, with a 6-hr layover in Stehekin. The bus went as far as High Bridge, on the border between the recreation area and national park.

I wish they'd just punch that through to WA-20. They could carve out a narrow corridor through the wilderness area, just like they do in so many other places.

The bus driver said the road only continued about a mile north from High Bridge, but that it used to go a few miles further.

I don't really know what the terrain looks like through there, but a connection from there to the Cascade River Road coming down from WA 20 might be feasible. I doubt we'd ever see it, though.

Did you hike through Agnes Gorge, at least?

[xonhulu]

Did you hike through Agnes Gorge, at least?

No, the bus tour chewed up nearly all the time. We had an hour free for lunch but we were down by the deli in town. And thanks to the driver making a non-scheduled stop at some lodge up the valley, I didn't even have time to look around the area around the boat dock. The only hike I did was up to the Rainbow Falls overlook, but that wasn't even a mile roundtrip.

[Plutonic Panda]

Article about various infrastructure closures and failures from the recent rains:

https://www.nbcnews.com/weather/storms/washington-storms-atmospheric-rivers-infrastructure-failures-rcna249561

[kkt]

I wish they'd just punch that through to WA-20. They could carve out a narrow corridor through the wilderness area, just like they do in so many other places.

I'm glad they have not.  Even a 2-lane road prevents a lot of small critters from crossing it to find food or mates.  I think Stehekin likes being a dead end, accessible only by boat or foot.

[Bruce]

A lot of much-needed improvements to SR 99 between Edmonds and Everett are in the works: https://www.theurbanist.org/2026/01/06/wsdot-eyes-major-transformation-for-sr-99-in-snohomish-county/

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm skeptical based on how much more even bad of a time I had on 99 from Fremont southward into downtown last year.  99 was certainly way slower than it had been before the dedicated bus lane was put in.  I'm unclear if more traffic was being drawn over though from construction on I-5 at Lake Union.

[Bruce]

I'm skeptical based on how much more even bad of a time I had on 99 from Fremont southward into downtown last year.  99 was certainly way slower than it had been before the dedicated bus lane was put in.  I'm unclear if more traffic was being drawn over though from construction on I-5 at Lake Union.

There's no point in having a speedy expressway south of the Aurora Bridge given that traffic grinds to a halt once you hit the surface streets. A lot of the demand is still heading to downtown (and now Denny Triangle and SLU), so the tunnel doesn't help that much.

There's still stretches of SR 99 that lack sidewalks and basic infrastructure. It's long overdue for an overhaul, even at the expense of some marginal capacity (in terms of overall people-moving).

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm skeptical based on how much more even bad of a time I had on 99 from Fremont southward into downtown last year.  99 was certainly way slower than it had been before the dedicated bus lane was put in.  I'm unclear if more traffic was being drawn over though from construction on I-5 at Lake Union.

There's no point in having a speedy expressway south of the Aurora Bridge given that traffic grinds to a halt once you hit the surface streets. A lot of the demand is still heading to downtown (and now Denny Triangle and SLU), so the tunnel doesn't help that much.

There's still stretches of SR 99 that lack sidewalks and basic infrastructure. It's long overdue for an overhaul, even at the expense of some marginal capacity (in terms of overall people-moving).

Can't say I really agree with the bolded point given there is only a single fully limited access corridor running north/south to downtown.  99 traditionally has always been my preferred way of getting to and through downtown over I-5.  That expressway south of Fremont at least is a minimal alternative for commuting traffic. 

Speaking strictly for myself, I paid the tunnel toll five times getting to/from downtown.  Even if I-5 wasn't all messed up from construction odds were I was still taking 99.  I definitely bet right in taking 99 to get to my morning flight the day I left as I-5 had tons of issues that day from downtown southward.

Sometimes I wrack my brain over which big city I frequent has the worst traffic.  I tend to lean towards Chicago because of everyone dog piling onto the toll-free expressways.  Chicago does have the upper hand in one regard with the surface highways being far more reliable (or as much as they can be) versus Seattle.  Seattle just plain doesn't have anything somewhat decent beyond taking I-5 or 99 heading north/south. 

Strangely I tend to view Guadalajara traffic more favorably than Chicago or Seattle.  It might be ugly and slow but you generally keep chugging along on Federal Highways 15 and 23 (and their implied continuations in the city).  Mexican Autopistas for the most part actually act as true bypasses.  The Southern Super Bypass (Autopista GUA 10) is something I wish Seattle had an analog for (I-405 isn't it). 

[Bruce]

Can't say I really agree with the bolded point given there is only a single fully limited access corridor running north/south to downtown.  99 traditionally has always been my preferred way of getting to and through downtown over I-5.  That expressway south of Fremont at least is a minimal alternative for commuting traffic. 

Speaking strictly for myself, I paid the tunnel toll five times getting to/from downtown.  Even if I-5 wasn't all messed up from construction odds were I was still taking 99.  I definitely bet right in taking 99 to get to my morning flight the day I left as I-5 had tons of issues that day from downtown southward.

Sometimes I wrack my brain over which big city I frequent has the worst traffic.  I tend to lean towards Chicago because of everyone dog piling onto the toll-free expressways.  Chicago does have the upper hand in one regard with the surface highways being far more reliable (or as much as they can be) versus Seattle.  Seattle just plain doesn't have anything somewhat decent beyond taking I-5 or 99 heading north/south. 

Seattle doesn't need (or want) more car traffic to be funneled into downtown. The tunnel isn't even a true bypass because it still encourages car traffic to siphon off onto Mercer or around Green Lake.

In the long term, Seattle wants their section of SR 99 to be a boulevard similar to the new sections of Alaskan Way: bus and bike lanes, minimal number of general purpose lanes, maybe some parking in select areas. It would move more people than today.

[Max Rockatansky]

Can't say I really agree with the bolded point given there is only a single fully limited access corridor running north/south to downtown.  99 traditionally has always been my preferred way of getting to and through downtown over I-5.  That expressway south of Fremont at least is a minimal alternative for commuting traffic. 

Speaking strictly for myself, I paid the tunnel toll five times getting to/from downtown.  Even if I-5 wasn't all messed up from construction odds were I was still taking 99.  I definitely bet right in taking 99 to get to my morning flight the day I left as I-5 had tons of issues that day from downtown southward.

Sometimes I wrack my brain over which big city I frequent has the worst traffic.  I tend to lean towards Chicago because of everyone dog piling onto the toll-free expressways.  Chicago does have the upper hand in one regard with the surface highways being far more reliable (or as much as they can be) versus Seattle.  Seattle just plain doesn't have anything somewhat decent beyond taking I-5 or 99 heading north/south. 

Seattle doesn't need (or want) more car traffic to be funneled into downtown. The tunnel isn't even a true bypass because it still encourages car traffic to siphon off onto Mercer or around Green Lake.

In the long term, Seattle wants their section of SR 99 to be a boulevard similar to the new sections of Alaskan Way: bus and bike lanes, minimal number of general purpose lanes, maybe some parking in select areas. It would move more people than today.

Okay cool, I'm just speaking as someone who "has" to frequently work in Seattle and the surrounding area.  I don't dislike Seattle, in fact I find it to be one of the more interesting cities I visit.  Thing is though getting around in a car is an absolute hellish slog (my options on transit as a visitor tend be limited to the ferry routes).  And now you're talking about reducing what little north/south carrying capacity there is like it a universally good thing.

Before I was married I passed up a couple transfer options to Puget Sound.  I'd be lying if I didn't say the current state of getting around and through the Seattle metro area wasn't part of what swayed my decisions.  I'd certainly like Seattle to be a more attractive place to reside and get around since there are so many recreational opportunities in the Cascades which I enjoy.  My thought generally is that I'm probably at least two decades too late on making a viable go at things that far north.  Maybe something far more rural in Washington will catch my eye by the time retirement rolls around. 

[kkt]

For what it's worth, my couple of experiences driving I-5 with the lane closures hasn't been all that bad.  It's added another 5-10 minutes to what's a slog anyway.  I was travelling off-peak both times, late morning or early afternoon.  I guess a lot of people hear the traffic reports and take Eastlake or 23rd Ave. instead.  (Too bad Eastlake is still a mess at the same time.)

By the way, regarding Alaska Way, is there any prospect of getting the waterfront streetcar back?  Back when the streetcar maintenance barn was given away to the outdoor sculpture museum a lot of people were unhappy and many members of the City Council and other electeds were falling over each other with promises to get something put in to replace the maintenance barn tout de suit and restore the tracks and streetcar service... that was probably 20 years ago.  The streetcar gave a smoother and more fun ride than buses sharing city streets, both for people who live in the region who are visiting the waterfront and for tourists a great way to get from the cruise ship docks to see the Flying Fish at Pike Place Market.  Closer headways than buses can manage along Alaskan Way too.

[Bruce]

Okay cool, I'm just speaking as someone who "has" to frequently work in Seattle and the surrounding area.  I don't dislike Seattle, in fact I find it to be one of the more interesting cities I visit.  Thing is though getting around in a car is an absolute hellish slog (my options on transit as a visitor tend be limited to the ferry routes).  And now you're talking about reducing what little north/south carrying capacity there is like it a universally good thing.

I'm glad you enjoy visiting, but as someone who lives in the area and frequently commutes down for work, social events, sports, and all sorts of things...driving into Downtown Seattle ain't a smart option for 90% of use cases. And my friends who live in Seattle proper certainly don't see the appeal in adding more cars to the downtown core, and voted accordingly for the new mayor.

We already have geographic constraints that make space precious and roads a geometrically unfit option, so there's not much else to complain about. Making it easier to bike and walk along a major street is a net benefit for all users of the corridor, including drivers.

[Bruce]

By the way, regarding Alaska Way, is there any prospect of getting the waterfront streetcar back?  Back when the streetcar maintenance barn was given away to the outdoor sculpture museum a lot of people were unhappy and many members of the City Council and other electeds were falling over each other with promises to get something put in to replace the maintenance barn tout de suit and restore the tracks and streetcar service... that was probably 20 years ago.  The streetcar gave a smoother and more fun ride than buses sharing city streets, both for people who live in the region who are visiting the waterfront and for tourists a great way to get from the cruise ship docks to see the Flying Fish at Pike Place Market.  Closer headways than buses can manage along Alaskan Way too.

The new waterfront never incorporated a streetcar into the plans, so a revival is probably not going to happen for a generation. The only viable option was a connector on 1st Avenue that would let the two existing lines work as a full system, but that was killed by Mayor Durkan over some cost issues (mostly associated with utility work on 1st). If Mayor Wilson can restore it, that'd be great...but the cost has gone way up and there's no hope of federal assistance, so it is a low priority.

We really need to have a better connection to the waterfront (especially areas north of Colman Dock), but for now we have free and stuck-in-traffic shuttle buses.

[Max Rockatansky]

Okay cool, I'm just speaking as someone who "has" to frequently work in Seattle and the surrounding area.  I don't dislike Seattle, in fact I find it to be one of the more interesting cities I visit.  Thing is though getting around in a car is an absolute hellish slog (my options on transit as a visitor tend be limited to the ferry routes).  And now you're talking about reducing what little north/south carrying capacity there is like it a universally good thing.

I'm glad you enjoy visiting, but as someone who lives in the area and frequently commutes down for work, social events, sports, and all sorts of things...driving into Downtown Seattle ain't a smart option for 90% of use cases. And my friends who live in Seattle proper certainly don't see the appeal in adding more cars to the downtown core, and voted accordingly for the new mayor.

We already have geographic constraints that make space precious and roads a geometrically unfit option, so there's not much else to complain about. Making it easier to bike and walk along a major street is a net benefit for all users of the corridor, including drivers.

That's the rub, I lived in Seattle I'm sure I could ride a bike or do something other than drive.  Problem is as a work visitor I'm kind of stuck with what options I'm given by our travel department.  The trains don't stop in Everett (the auxiliary facilities up near Smokey Point), Whidbey Island or Kitsap so they aren't much use. 

Even as a distance runner, I've only been able to take advantage of it once when I was given a hotel in downtown.  Most of the time I get a hotel near SeaTac or somewhere way north of downtown like Lynnwood.  Yes, Seattle is geographically constrained but it is also way larger than compared to San Francisco (where running is viable anywhere in city).

I'm not trying to be critical per se (aside from reducing capacity on 99).  I just find the situation frustrating when I visit the area knowing that there aren't any decent options for how I'm going to get places.  The ferry system is often my go-to bet more often than not as a bypass of the urban core.

[Rothman]

Just looked up how to get from my brother's house in Bothell into downtown Seattle by public transportation and it's a miserable slog with uncertain connections.

My own old mostly-rural hometown of around 40,000 people is starting to restrict its "downtown" parking in the name of keeping drivers out.  Of course, you can't get to its downtown through public transit from various locations in its own town, let alone surrounding ones.  So, half the business space gets rotated out of every few years:  Business owner thinks my old town is cute, find out people can't get to the location and move out to other communities that actually encourage people to visit their downtown shopping areas.  Hometown is finally reeling a bit after a decade or so of this and finding that the cost of incentivizing businesses to come in and lose money is straining its budget...

"We don't want more drivers" cannot happen before public transportation options are improved considerably and at tremendous cost or even image (i.e., in my experience, authorities are reluctant to run new lines that won't have decent ridership for a while, despite being on what could be demand routes -- don't get me started on our local authority's weak attempt to improve access to our local airport, which seems just destined to fail given the bad design of the route...).  Cities need to play "catch up" with public transportation by investing heavily in it, but ignoring drivers before public transportation options are really available is a dangerous gamble.

[Bruce]

That's the rub, I lived in Seattle I'm sure I could ride a bike or do something other than drive.  Problem is as a work visitor I'm kind of stuck with what options I'm given by our travel department.  The trains don't stop in Everett (the auxiliary facilities up near Smokey Point), Whidbey Island or Kitsap so they aren't much use. 

Even as a distance runner, I've only been able to take advantage of it once when I was given a hotel in downtown.  Most of the time I get a hotel near SeaTac or somewhere way north of downtown like Lynnwood.  Yes, Seattle is geographically constrained but it is also way larger than compared to San Francisco (where running is viable anywhere in city).

I'm not trying to be critical per se (aside from reducing capacity on 99).  I just find the situation frustrating when I visit the area knowing that there aren't any decent options for how I'm going to get places.  The ferry system is often my go-to bet more often than not as a bypass of the urban core.

Getting from Seattle to Everett, Lynnwood, and SeaTac are all very doable through a mix of buses and trains (especially for the latter two, which are the termini of the 1 Line). I'm not saying we shouldn't have cars, but it shouldn't be a priority to provide access to Downtown Seattle given the space constraints. For the Aurora corridor, the E Line is struggling in traffic and is the busiest bus route in the Northwest (outside of Vancouver), so it absolutely needs to have its own lane.

As for playing catch up, Seattle has done plenty of that and established a pretty strong culture of riding both the trains and buses (the latter is missing from so many American cities). Combined with the free employee transit passes for large businesses, parking rates in downtown, and relatively good commuter links to most relevant areas, the mode share for downtown commuters was majority non-car in 2019. We're almost back at those levels too.

[Rothman]

That's the rub, I lived in Seattle I'm sure I could ride a bike or do something other than drive.  Problem is as a work visitor I'm kind of stuck with what options I'm given by our travel department.  The trains don't stop in Everett (the auxiliary facilities up near Smokey Point), Whidbey Island or Kitsap so they aren't much use. 

Even as a distance runner, I've only been able to take advantage of it once when I was given a hotel in downtown.  Most of the time I get a hotel near SeaTac or somewhere way north of downtown like Lynnwood.  Yes, Seattle is geographically constrained but it is also way larger than compared to San Francisco (where running is viable anywhere in city).

I'm not trying to be critical per se (aside from reducing capacity on 99).  I just find the situation frustrating when I visit the area knowing that there aren't any decent options for how I'm going to get places.  The ferry system is often my go-to bet more often than not as a bypass of the urban core.

Getting from Seattle to Everett, Lynnwood, and SeaTac are all very doable through a mix of buses and trains (especially for the latter two, which are the termini of the 1 Line).

Yuk.  Other metros don't require mode switches for a lot of their commuter travel.

Combined with the free employee transit passes for large businesses, parking rates in downtown, and relatively good commuter links to most relevant areas, the mode share for downtown commuters was majority non-car in 2019. We're almost back at those levels too.

That's good, but I wonder from how far out they're considering commuter traffic and where that percentage flips over, distance-wise.

[Bruce]

Yuk.  Other metros don't require mode switches for a lot of their commuter travel.

Most cities around the world don't discriminate between modes. It's easy enough to switch from a frequent bus to a frequent train that share a common payment method (and often have no-fare transfers). The stigma against buses in the U.S. is based in classism and a whole bunch of other historic wrongs, so as per usual we are behind the ball when it comes to common-sense transit planning.

Seattle only had viable rail options very recently in its history, so we've developed a healthy culture of riding the bus.

[Rothman]

Yuk.  Other metros don't require mode switches for a lot of their commuter travel.

Most cities around the world don't discriminate between modes. It's easy enough to switch from a frequent bus to a frequent train that share a common payment method (and often have no-fare transfers). The stigma against buses in the U.S. is based in classism and a whole bunch of other historic wrongs, so as per usual we are behind the ball when it comes to common-sense transit planning.

Seattle only had viable rail options very recently in its history, so we've developed a healthy culture of riding the bus.

Meh.  The fewer transfers, even within the same mode, the better.  That's not classism.  That's simplicity.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yuk.  Other metros don't require mode switches for a lot of their commuter travel.

Most cities around the world don't discriminate between modes. It's easy enough to switch from a frequent bus to a frequent train that share a common payment method (and often have no-fare transfers). The stigma against buses in the U.S. is based in classism and a whole bunch of other historic wrongs, so as per usual we are behind the ball when it comes to common-sense transit planning.

Seattle only had viable rail options very recently in its history, so we've developed a healthy culture of riding the bus.

Meh.  The fewer transfers, even within the same mode, the better.  That's not classism.  That's simplicity.

The high number of transfers required to get around on Valley Metro was a huge turnoff when I lived in Phoenix.  The annual ridership numbers were around 26,000,000 in 2024 and suspect are some reflective of this issue.  For the most part though, if you want to get around in Phoenix by car there are plenty of options (including a well-planned out street grid).

I want to say King County is almost pulling 90,000,000 riders in recent years.  I tend to think the high King County ridership number is more reflective of how difficult it is to get around metro Seattle rather than speaking to it being optimally efficient.

[The Ghostbuster]

Has anyone seen this story?: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2026-01-16/seattle-s-sound-transit-light-rail-is-drawing-riders-and-criticism.