California

[Quillz]

What is this "open road tolling?" When I drive the Golden Gate Bridge, I just drive it. Then a bill shows up like a month later in the mail.

[Max Rockatansky]

What is this "open road tolling?" When I drive the Golden Gate Bridge, I just drive it. Then a bill shows up like a month later in the mail.

It means no gantry plaza on the San Francisco side with the guy shouting on the loudspeaker not to stop.

[jdbx]

The Richmond-San Rafael Bridge will be the first bridge in the Bay Area with open-road tolling.

The first bridge with fully open-road tolling, I think.

There have been toll booth bypass lanes at the I-680 Benicia-Martinez Bridge toll plaza since the second bridge opened there in 2007:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/GtBramx4EztDCiq48

All the bridges have electronic tolling. All they're doing is removing the unnecessary traffic obstructions, which are the obsolete tollbooths. I don't understand why it's so hard to do that, and why they didn't do that on all the bridges a long time ago.

I have puzzled over this also.  The only thing that I could see being a bit more complicated than simply erecting a toll gantry is the need to count axles, but that was clearly a solved problem with the open-road lanes on the Benicia Bridge.

I wonder if part of the challenge is figuring out how to deal with the change in how traffic will queue as most of the bridges have more lanes feeding into the bridge than actually cross the bridge. The existing toll plazas provide additional queueing areas for traffic that would probably otherwise have earlier lane drops, so I would imagine that traffic backups approaching the bridges may actually start farther upstream, especially on the Bay Bridge.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Here's a neat video from Caltrans on the history of the freeway system.

[pderocco]

Here's a neat video from Caltrans on the history of the freeway system.

Too bad the video is such wretched quality. I wonder what it was copied from.

I'd guess that was from 1966, because of the map at the end that showed how far along the construction had come. Compare that to the available California official maps at Rumsey.

The only thing I didn't like about the video was the station wagons. I always hated station wagons. Ugly, ungainly things.

[Max Rockatansky]

Not every station wagon was ugly though.  Some actually looked pretty good.  A couple I can think of off the top of my head:

-  1957 Chevy Nomad
-  Dodge Magnum
-  Cadillac CTS (especially the V)

[DTComposer]

Here's a neat video from Caltrans on the history of the freeway system.

Too bad the video is such wretched quality. I wonder what it was copied from.

I'd guess that was from 1966, because of the map at the end that showed how far along the construction had come. Compare that to the available California official maps at Rumsey.

The only thing I didn't like about the video was the station wagons. I always hated station wagons. Ugly, ungainly things.

This isn't a "history" - it's a propaganda piece for post-war suburbia. I do like the optimism about California's population reaching 32 million by 1980 - they were only off by 9 million

For the date, 1966 seems reasonable, although the close-up on the L.A. area appears showed I-605 as complete to I-210 (by 1966 it was only open from I-405 to I-5), but shows I-710 (nee CA-7) as incomplete between Long Beach and I-5, even though that had been completed by 1960.

It also shows some portions of routes as "complete" that are to this day still two-lane undivided highways - CA-166, for example. Given that there's no legend or border on the map, I wonder if they had someone just ink a quick copy of the lines so they could put it up on the wall for filming?

[Max Rockatansky]

Accurate over the long term or not most media content put out by the Division of Highways generally brimmed with optimism.  It tends to really stand in contrast to a lot of the clinical (or even dour) media bits modern Caltrans does.  Both probably are symptomatic of the respective time periods I suppose. 

[bing101]

https://patch.com/california/san-francisco/several-bay-area-bridges-will-see-price-increase-starting-next-year

Here's the current state of Bay Area bridge toll as it increases prices for 2026.

[cl94]

Well, it's December 6 and Sonora Pass is still open. In fact, it reopened earlier this week after November snow forced its closure. No significant precip is forecast in the next week, so there's a decent chance it remains open at least into next weekend.

[gonealookin]

Well, it's December 6 and Sonora Pass is still open. In fact, it reopened earlier this week after November snow forced its closure. No significant precip is forecast in the next week, so there's a decent chance it remains open at least into next weekend.

Yes, that's very unusual.

I'm sure I've commented on this before.  The historical mountain pass closure dates posted on the Caltrans website are very misleading.  The date shown for each year is the date when they declared, OK, there's zero chance we're going to try to reopen the pass until spring.  However, in most cases the gates were closed long before the date shown and never reopened.

So if you look at the table on that linked page, it says the winter closure date was December 15 or later in 4 of the last 5 years.  That's not right at all.  In fact Sonora Pass is rarely open after about the middle of November.  The spring opening dates, now those are correct.

At this time of year I would not drive that road without dedicated ice and snow tires.  Snow can melt in the daytime sun, refreeze overnight and on regular tires you're just along for the ride until you crash into something.

[Quillz]

Conversely, I think it was just a year or two ago Tioga Pass didn't open until July 4, one of the latest openings ever.

I was planning to do Sherman Pass, it's really nice around October or so, but it would certainly be closed by now. I was planning one more Death Valley trip before the year ends, so I'll probably use Walker Pass instead.

[Max Rockatansky]

You should be able to check on the status of Sherman Pass Road on the Forest Service Interactive map.  Usually the Forest Service has a cutoff date during which they close gates no matter if the road could be left open or not.

[pderocco]

You should be able to check on the status of Sherman Pass Road on the Forest Service Interactive map.  Usually the Forest Service has a cutoff date during which they close gates no matter if the road could be left open or not.

I've never found an official map that shows what National Forest Service roads are open, like the National Park Service has. All I've ever found was verbal information, like "Area closed" when I go to a page for a particular area.

[Max Rockatansky]

You should be able to check on the status of Sherman Pass Road on the Forest Service Interactive map.  Usually the Forest Service has a cutoff date during which they close gates no matter if the road could be left open or not.

I've never found an official map that shows what National Forest Service roads are open, like the National Park Service has. All I've ever found was verbal information, like "Area closed" when I go to a page for a particular area.

This is the service I'm referencing:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a695e1dbdeab4e8ba5c6ad4fd06a0ba0#zoom_to_selection=true

Unfortunately it doesn't work so great on a cell phone.  I'll check road 22S05 (Sherman Pass Road) when we are done with our dinner party. 

[cl94]

I'm sure I've commented on this before.  The historical mountain pass closure dates posted on the Caltrans website are very misleading.  The date shown for each year is the date when they declared, OK, there's zero chance we're going to try to reopen the pass until spring.  However, in most cases the gates were closed long before the date shown and never reopened.

So if you look at the table on that linked page, it says the winter closure date was December 15 or later in 4 of the last 5 years.  That's not right at all.  In fact Sonora Pass is rarely open after about the middle of November.  The spring opening dates, now those are correct.

Yes. 2023, Sonora made it to the week after Thanksgiving, but that was it. 2025 is definitely the latest it has been open in recent years, and I'd be shocked if it closes before the 14th at this rate. May get a storm next week, TBD.

[pderocco]

You should be able to check on the status of Sherman Pass Road on the Forest Service Interactive map.  Usually the Forest Service has a cutoff date during which they close gates no matter if the road could be left open or not.

I've never found an official map that shows what National Forest Service roads are open, like the National Park Service has. All I've ever found was verbal information, like "Area closed" when I go to a page for a particular area.

This is the service I'm referencing:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a695e1dbdeab4e8ba5c6ad4fd06a0ba0#zoom_to_selection=true

Unfortunately it doesn't work so great on a cell phone.  I'll check road 22S05 (Sherman Pass Road) when we are done with our dinner party. 

If I check "Highway Legal Vehicle", it highlights lots of roads in yellow, indicating that those are legal for regular cars. Does that also imply that they are currently open, or just usually open on this date? Sherman Pass is currently open, I believe, but Kings Canyon past Hume Lake Rd is closed, and that doesn't show yellow highlights. But there are tons of little dirt roads around it that are highlighted, which makes me wonder about the reliability of this info.

[Max Rockatansky]

You should be able to check on the status of Sherman Pass Road on the Forest Service Interactive map.  Usually the Forest Service has a cutoff date during which they close gates no matter if the road could be left open or not.

I've never found an official map that shows what National Forest Service roads are open, like the National Park Service has. All I've ever found was verbal information, like "Area closed" when I go to a page for a particular area.

This is the service I'm referencing:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a695e1dbdeab4e8ba5c6ad4fd06a0ba0#zoom_to_selection=true

Unfortunately it doesn't work so great on a cell phone.  I'll check road 22S05 (Sherman Pass Road) when we are done with our dinner party. 

If I check "Highway Legal Vehicle", it highlights lots of roads in yellow, indicating that those are legal for regular cars. Does that also imply that they are currently open, or just usually open on this date? Sherman Pass is currently open, I believe, but Kings Canyon past Hume Lake Rd is closed, and that doesn't show yellow highlights. But there are tons of little dirt roads around it that are highlighted, which makes me wonder about the reliability of this info.

It has a date range, unfortunately it appears to not be accurate for Sherman Pass Road:

Open to Highway Legal Vehicles:
01/01-12/31

I'm thinking that probably means the Forest Service closes the road once they feel they can keep it open anymore for the season.  Unfortunately, in this case that probably has some substantial variance that require you either go see or call someone at Sequoia National Forest who can actually answer your question (seems unlikely).

The Forest Service map wouldn't provide any information on roads Caltrans maintains.  This is only the second year I can remember CA 180 east of Hume Lake actually appearing with a closure on the Caltrans QuickMap.

[roadman65]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/bay-bridge-toll-booth-21237168.php

[Max Rockatansky]

I drove up to Willits this evening for a ride on the Skunk Train tomorrow.  While on the northbound Redwood Highway approaching Exit 519 there was a sign indicating a US 101/CA 128 Business Route.  I cannot recall ever having seen two multiplexed California highways being featured on a Business Route like that anywhere else.

[pderocco]

I drove up to Willits this evening for a ride on the Skunk Train tomorrow.  While on the northbound Redwood Highway approaching Exit 519 there was a sign indicating a US 101/CA 128 Business Route.  I cannot recall ever having seen two multiplexed California highways being featured on a Business Route like that anywhere else.

Yes, I think that's the only one. Here's GSV:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kzNWhYn5PXM6xsiw5
There's another at the end of the ramp. I was only able to find one sign using actual shields, and the word BUSINESS had faded away:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yJmWtwfhpwDCcXrV9

[ClassicHasClass]

Went through Fairfield/Vacaville on my usual route. Saw the express lane toll jump in real time from $1.25 to $1.75 for the stretch up to Manuel Campos Pkwy. Looks like you'd spend a few bucks to make this run, especially for Sunday afternoon get-back traffic because the tolls run 7 days a week.

[pderocco]

Went through Fairfield/Vacaville on my usual route. Saw the express lane toll jump in real time from $1.25 to $1.75 for the stretch up to Manuel Campos Pkwy. Looks like you'd spend a few bucks to make this run, especially for Sunday afternoon get-back traffic because the tolls run 7 days a week.

I wonder if there's a delay between the sign upping the price and the price actually going up.

[gonealookin]

I'm sure I've commented on this before.  The historical mountain pass closure dates posted on the Caltrans website are very misleading.  The date shown for each year is the date when they declared, OK, there's zero chance we're going to try to reopen the pass until spring.  However, in most cases the gates were closed long before the date shown and never reopened.

So if you look at the table on that linked page, it says the winter closure date was December 15 or later in 4 of the last 5 years.  That's not right at all.  In fact Sonora Pass is rarely open after about the middle of November.  The spring opening dates, now those are correct.

Yes. 2023, Sonora made it to the week after Thanksgiving, but that was it. 2025 is definitely the latest it has been open in recent years, and I'd be shocked if it closes before the 14th at this rate. May get a storm next week, TBD.

Caltrans closed Ebbetts, Sonora and Monitor Passes during the day on December 16.  They haven't reopened, and with the current major storm that's definitely it until spring for Ebbetts and Sonora at least.  In a dry winter Monitor Pass, in the drier shadow east of the main Sierra crest, occasionally is reopened after a few snowless weeks.

[cl94]

If Monitor reopens, it'll probably be a while given how much is dumping right now. But yeah, I had a feeling the passes weren't reopening when they closed last week. Several feet at pass level will certainly help our water supply.