Scott Adams, ‘Dilbert’ Creator, Dies at 68

[wxfree]

Eesh.  After reading his deposition as printed in Rolling Stone, I can't.  Repulsed by everything Cosby ever since.

If I couldn't appreciate the art put out by nasty people, then my music collection would probably shrink by half.

This is an interesting topic, and we must learn to view people as complex beings rather than as single points of data.  The complexities inherently conflict, as no one is entirely one thing.  We shouldn't throw out the Declaration of Independence because Thomas Jefferson owned slaves.  If we aren't willing to learn from, or be entertained by, imperfect people, then we'll never learn anything (or be entertained).  We need to give people room to grow, the opportunity to make mistakes and do better.  This obviously doesn't apply to the dead, but we need to try to understand them in the context of their lives.  It also doesn't mean people should be free from the consequences of their actions.  In my view, Bill Cosby (if proven guilty) belongs in prison and his material belongs on television (and audio performances).  The old racist cartoons also need to be included in our understanding of our heritage because that affects who we are culturally today.

If there's a part of yourself you don't like, you can't ignore it and pretend it isn't there, because that just lets it influence you without you knowing.  You have to face it down and try to understand and reduce its influence.  We have to do the same thing as a society.  Not just for the sake of the imperfect, but for the sake of the elevation of the self and of society.

[kphoger]

Likewise, I'll still listen to the Lennon/Yoko Christmas hit Happy Xmas (War Is Over) during the holiday season, and I still enjoy the Beatles album Let It Be, even if both were produced by a man who shot a woman in the mouth in his mansion.

[DTComposer]

Bill Cosby was proven guilty, and testified in court to drugging women to have sex with them. He served three years in prison, and his conviction was overturned not because he wasn't guilty, but because his due process rights were violated.

Everyone is going to draw their personal lines about the separation of art and artist, and many people will be hypocritical about where those lines are because of their personal connection with the art.

Artists are humans, and they will make mistakes, they will make bad decisions, and some of them will turn out to be not good people. Plenty of them struggle with addiction, or abuse, or worse.

In Cosby's case, it is harder for many to separate art from artist because the crimes he committed are in direct conflict with the message of much of his art - the morality, good citizenry, and family values that were core themes of "Fat Albert" and "The Cosby Show".

A similar (albeit less criminal) situation exists today with J.K. Rowling - the controversial opinions she has on trans people seem to be in direct conflict with the themes of exclusion and marginalization in the Harry Potter series. Many fans struggle with this and feel betrayed, as those books and movies were a core part of their youth (and adulthood) - regardless of one's opinion of the quality of the work, the series is one of the seminal entertainment franchises of the last 30 years.

Going back to Adams: I was not surprised by his opinions as the years went on - although I had not read Dilbert more than occasionally in the last 25-ish years, you could see that holier-than-thou attitude in his strips.

[Rothman]

Eesh.  After reading his deposition as printed in Rolling Stone, I can't.  Repulsed by everything Cosby ever since.

If I couldn't appreciate the art put out by nasty people, then my music collection would probably shrink by half.

Oh, I still like a lot of art by nasty-ish people (e.g., Quentin Tarantino and even still Dilbert).  But, a person who drugged women to rape them while they were under the chemical influence?  Nope.  The fact that Cosby was put out there as a family-friendly advocate for child education as well just adds salt to the wound.  Feels like we invited a rapist right into our homes.

[bing101]

I remember Dilbert was at its peak when it was satire directed at the Dot-com boom of the late 1990's and early 2000's. That's when Scott Adam's was the most liked person given that he was directed his parodies over the work environment of Silicon Valley at that time.

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

But in Scott Adam's case he became the people he parodied before he left like Elon Musk and Larry Ellison type persons here. 

[hotdogPi]

Scott Adam's

Who is Scott Adam?

It reminds me of a bar in Boston that was advertising Sam Adam's beer.

[vdeane]

It gets tricky with living artists because they get royalties from people consuming their works.  Since Harry Potter was mentioned, it's not just that the author is transphobic, but because she uses the royalties to fund political campaigns to have trans rights rolled back.

[Molandfreak]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

[NE2]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

Is it OK if I support known monsters by feeding them cookies?

[Big John]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

Is it OK if I support known monsters by feeding them cookies?

[Max Rockatansky]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

Is it OK if I support known monsters by feeding them cookies?

Sid Monster's addiction to cookies was so severe that he forgot his real name.

[kkt]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

[Rothman]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

[bing101]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

I would rather support Hannibal Burress he got the hero blaming treatment when he exposed Bill Cosby for who he is. 

But then again Scott Adams became the people he parodied in his case.

[Molandfreak]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

Talking about the art created by someone who has been dead over 50 years isn't really the same as talking about the art created by someone who can still profit from it.

We have known for years that racial segregation is impossible without violence and the outcomes of a segregated society will never be equal. Adams lived most of his life in a post civil rights movement world—it's not as if we're just a decade or two beyond that. I'm tired of having to put up a veneer of respect for people like this. 19th century ideals don't belong in the 21st century.

[Henry]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

Is it OK if I support known monsters by feeding them cookies?

Sid Monster's addiction to cookies was so severe that he forgot his real name.

ME, WANT, COOKIE!!!

[Max Rockatansky]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

Enjoying content is one thing, monetarily supporting known monsters is another.

Is it OK if I support known monsters by feeding them cookies?

Sid Monster's addiction to cookies was so severe that he forgot his real name.

ME, NEED, COOKIE!!!

As an addict Sid Monster "needs" his drug of choice.

[Quillz]

Eh, I liked "Dilbert" in of itself. Adams was another guy that lived long enough to show his true colors. Always sad when someone passes, but I can't say I'm shedding any tears, either.

[Quillz]

Creators and artists also have lots of trouble dealing with the fact they will eventually Fall Off and recede into unpopularity or just forgotten, as with 99.99% of all works. It takes a massive ego to think one can bypass this phenomenon; look at how many one-hit wonders and one-time actors there were (and will continue) or writers with a single book, cartoonists who make a limited name for themselves. Many painters or poets weren't even discovered as brilliant when they were even alive. Statistically, this is how it goes and will continue to do so. Sure, if you have a fortune you can continue to prop up your own career and that's laudable by itself. But it's never a guarantee of continued success.

This is why being someone like a Weird Al seems to be the sweet spot. You just kind of hang around and do your job, so people don't totally forget you, but you're never overexposed and people get sick of you. (Also helps Weird Al is just a straight up nice guy with no controversies).

I also know of one other example, weirdly enough: Sir Mix-A-Lot. (Yes, the "Baby Got Back" guy). He was uncomfortable with gangsta rap, because he knew he'd be selling out if he tried to get into it, so he just bowed out of music entirely and was completely comfortable with his one hit. (Also helps he has 100% of the royalties which made him super rich).

But I get it. So many people want to hang around forever, even long after their time has passed.

[Quillz]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

I'm the same. I still think "Himself" is funny. I can separate the art from the artist. I don't like Michael Jackson songs any less despite knowing Jackson's personal life. I still think Salvadore Dali paintings are interesting even if he was a bigot and a fascist.

As I mentioned, same with "Dilbert." I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around. I think the issue is if you don't separate the art from the artist, then you're on an endless quest to find some kind of perfect person, who doesn't exist.

As an aside, it kind of reminds me of people who won't buy certain products because they use sweatshop labor or have been involved in something bad in the past. Noble at face value, but the issue here is ANYTHING you do can at some point be traced to something bad, depending how far back you go. Unless you are 100% off the grid and do everything yourself from making your own clothes to growing your own food, trying to live life in such a way you are never listening to controversial artists or wearing clothes that were made in poor working conditions is just going to frustrate you and probably lead to an early death.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

[kalvado]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

I'm the same. I still think "Himself" is funny. I can separate the art from the artist. I don't like Michael Jackson songs any less despite knowing Jackson's personal life. I still think Salvadore Dali paintings are interesting even if he was a bigot and a fascist.

As I mentioned, same with "Dilbert." I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around. I think the issue is if you don't separate the art from the artist, then you're on an endless quest to find some kind of perfect person, who doesn't exist.

As an aside, it kind of reminds me of people who won't buy certain products because they use sweatshop labor or have been involved in something bad in the past. Noble at face value, but the issue here is ANYTHING you do can at some point be traced to something bad, depending how far back you go. Unless you are 100% off the grid and do everything yourself from making your own clothes to growing your own food, trying to live life in such a way you are never listening to controversial artists or wearing clothes that were made in poor working conditions is just going to frustrate you and probably lead to an early death.

Wouldn't help if you live in US on a land stollen from native tribes subjected to genocide.

[Rothman]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

[Quillz]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

I'm the same. I still think "Himself" is funny. I can separate the art from the artist. I don't like Michael Jackson songs any less despite knowing Jackson's personal life. I still think Salvadore Dali paintings are interesting even if he was a bigot and a fascist.

As I mentioned, same with "Dilbert." I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around. I think the issue is if you don't separate the art from the artist, then you're on an endless quest to find some kind of perfect person, who doesn't exist.

As an aside, it kind of reminds me of people who won't buy certain products because they use sweatshop labor or have been involved in something bad in the past. Noble at face value, but the issue here is ANYTHING you do can at some point be traced to something bad, depending how far back you go. Unless you are 100% off the grid and do everything yourself from making your own clothes to growing your own food, trying to live life in such a way you are never listening to controversial artists or wearing clothes that were made in poor working conditions is just going to frustrate you and probably lead to an early death.

Wouldn't help if you live in US on a land stollen from native tribes subjected to genocide.

Yes, that's my point. If you are alive right now, and live in [country], odds are something horrible happened there. And if you continue to live there and pay taxes, one could make the argument that you are okay with that horrible thing happening.

Except, life isn't that simple. That's kind of my point. Someone who still listens to Cosby stand-up or MJ music shouldn't be interpreted as an endorsement of the actual person. That's kind of my thoughts on Adams, as I said earlier. He was a person I would not have liked very much if I knew him. But I can appreciate he created an iconic comic.