Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[cu2010]

It's just R7 incompetence. The signs on the Northway in Clinton County are rough too.

R7 has been on a sign replacement spree lately, but the signs they are putting up are generally garbage. Clinton County in particular has a bunch of new route markers with the worst looking NY shields I've ever seen. LGS's (and street blades) are still all caps despite mixed case being the standard statewide for years (and R7 itself was using them, but reverted the last couple years), with kerning and font sizing issues all over the place. It's borderline embarrassing how sloppy signage up here is these days.

[roadman65]

Will R7 at Watertown stop mixing city names with street names as discouragement from the Manual?

NY 12 signed as Bradley Street/ Clayton on I-81 and Arsenal Street/ Jackets Harbor for Route 3 nearby.

I did see the Downtown 2 mileage sign beneath the NY 3 guide NB on I-81 got removed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/7377311884

[cu2010]

I did see the Downtown 2 mileage sign beneath the NY 3 guide NB on I-81 got removed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/7377311884

The whole sign was replaced after the old one got knocked down a few years ago. The new one is fine but the arrow is too small; it is otherwise a carbon copy of the old sign. The southbound sign retains the "Downtown 2" supplemental sign.

Meanwhile this one continues to just get put back up every time it gets knocked over...then again, this is R7, where shit like this somehow passes quality control...

[roadman65]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

[vdeane]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

Unfortunately that's a requirement of the modern MUTCD - skipping suffixes, even in the event that ramps exist in one direction but not the other, is not allowed.

[cu2010]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

The southbound exit for I-81 north (currently 481) will be 1A, so that number makes sense.

What does not make sense, however, is how 8B exists southbound near Binghamton but not 8A...northbound is 8A and 8B for NY17 and US11 respectively, but southbound just has 8B. Is the NY17 exit, currently unnumbered, supposed to be 8A?

[roadman65]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

Unfortunately that's a requirement of the modern MUTCD - skipping suffixes, even in the event that ramps exist in one direction but not the other, is not allowed.

Figures.  The MUTCD. It forbids regions and waterway crossings to be used.  However R11 does still continue to use Eastern Long Island on the LIE and im glad they did as well.  There are no stand out municipalities along the expressway as both Nassau and Suffolk are filled with just basic residential and farming towns.  No communities that stand out from each other,  although Riverhead is near the eastern end and is the seat of government for Suffolk, its too far out.  Using eastern LI makes better sense.

[kalvado]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

Unfortunately that's a requirement of the modern MUTCD - skipping suffixes, even in the event that ramps exist in one direction but not the other, is not allowed.

Figures.  The MUTCD. It forbids regions and waterway crossings to be used.  However R11 does still continue to use Eastern Long Island on the LIE and im glad they did as well.  There are no stand out municipalities along the expressway as both Nassau and Suffolk are filled with just basic residential and farming towns.  No communities that stand out from each other,  although Riverhead is near the eastern end and is the seat of government for Suffolk, its too far out.  Using eastern LI makes better sense.

Ordnung muss sein, ordnung über alles!

[vdeane]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

The southbound exit for I-81 north (currently 481) will be 1A, so that number makes sense.

What does not make sense, however, is how 8B exists southbound near Binghamton but not 8A...northbound is 8A and 8B for NY17 and US11 respectively, but southbound just has 8B. Is the NY17 exit, currently unnumbered, supposed to be 8A?

That is a good question.  That's what I thought, figuring they would add the number when the sign structures are replaced (same for I-88), but unlike I-88 (which still has the old triangular gantries), those sign structures were replaced in recent years, so I don't know.  I would have thought it would be logical to add a number or provisions for a number then, given that they added one for the other NY 17 split in the Kamikaze Curve project, but it doesn't appear that such happened.

although Riverhead is near the eastern end and is the seat of government for Suffolk, its too far out.  Using eastern LI makes better sense.

How it it "too far out"?  Riverhead makes sense for Region 10 because, by that point, "Eastern Long Island" is the same as not having a control city at all.  Arguably true for Region 11 as well, but in that case it does at least communicate that it leaves the city, vaguely.

[roadman65]

I saw the new Exit number for Brighton Ave.  It's got two different suffixes.  1A for NB and 1B for SB.

Off to a good start. ( sarcasm).

The southbound exit for I-81 north (currently 481) will be 1A, so that number makes sense.

What does not make sense, however, is how 8B exists southbound near Binghamton but not 8A...northbound is 8A and 8B for NY17 and US11 respectively, but southbound just has 8B. Is the NY17 exit, currently unnumbered, supposed to be 8A?

That is a good question.  That's what I thought, figuring they would add the number when the sign structures are replaced (same for I-88), but unlike I-88 (which still has the old triangular gantries), those sign structures were replaced in recent years, so I don't know.  I would have thought it would be logical to add a number or provisions for a number then, given that they added one for the other NY 17 split in the Kamikaze Curve project, but it doesn't appear that such happened.

although Riverhead is near the eastern end and is the seat of government for Suffolk, its too far out.  Using eastern LI makes better sense.

How it it "too far out"?  Riverhead makes sense for Region 10 because, by that point, "Eastern Long Island" is the same as not having a control city at all.  Arguably true for Region 11 as well, but in that case it does at least communicate that it leaves the city, vaguely.

Not my way, but htpothesizing on R10 not to use Riverhead.  After the Nassau Line Riverhead is used at every entrance ramp even though Nassau is really Central Long Island and still could use Eastern LI.

However to those in the city refer to Nassau as Eastern like they do Westchester as Upstate.   In Nasau County Riverhead is good to use and helpful being the expressway ends near it. 

I wasn't concerned when R10 briefly used Riverhead as far west as the Queens- Midtown Tunnel before going back except some pull through around I-278 that use both Riverhead and Eastern Long Island.

[vdeane]

Not my way, but htpothesizing on R10 not to use Riverhead.  After the Nassau Line Riverhead is used at every entrance ramp even though Nassau is really Central Long Island and still could use Eastern LI.

Interesting, I don't think I've ever head of "Central Long Island" before.  I always figured "Eastern Long Island" was code for "the parts of Long Island that are further east than this sign".

[roadman65]

No one really thinks of it as being central despite the geographics.

In New York City, Uptown and Downtown are a direction in addition to a place.  The subways, for example,  if you go from a higher number street to a lower number street you've traveled Downtown despite the lower number is above 14th Street, which is the technical north end of Downtown Manhattan.

In a previous post we discussed the point of where Upstate begins and many thought its above the point your standing.  If your in the Bronx, White Plains is Upstate. If your in Westchester County, Putnam and Dutchess Counties are Upstate.  If your in Albany,  Plattsburg is Upstate.

In Long Island, every place north of New York City is Upstate.   

So in Queens, Nassau and Suffolk are Eastern Long Island.   In Nassau, Suffolk is Eastern Long Island.  In Suffolk points east of where you are are Eastern except east of the split of the forks where you are furthest east you probably name towns, hamlets, or villages to your east.

Brooklyn is part of Long Island geographically, but I dont think Brooklynnites  consider themselves part of Long Island, but Queens residents does though. 

It's a matter of opinion, but Eastern Long Island is good for the LIE on guide signs in NYC as it covers all bases. R11 could use Eastern LI from the Queens - Nassau Line to the Nassau - Suffolk Line, but Riverhead is just as good to use.

[vdeane]

When I looked at the map for making comments for the Thruway's safety action plan, I noticed that the exit numbers around Syracuse looked really weird.  Turns out it's from Open Street Map.  Someone went through there and "updated" the exit numbers, but many of them are wrong or even nonsensical (such as the ones on I-81/future BL 81 based on current I-81 mileage, or where exit 78 was changed to 77 for seemingly no reason).  I-690 is affected too.  And it uses mile-based numbers in Jefferson County even though those haven't changed yet (not sure where they got them from, but given the numbers in Broome County are quite wrong, I'm taking them with a grain of salt).  Strange.

[Rothman]

When I looked at the map for making comments for the Thruway's safety action plan, I noticed that the exit numbers around Syracuse looked really weird.  Turns out it's from Open Street Map.  Someone went through there and "updated" the exit numbers, but many of them are wrong or even nonsensical (such as the ones on I-81/future BL 81 based on current I-81 mileage, or where exit 78 was changed to 77 for seemingly no reason).  I-690 is affected too.  And it uses mile-based numbers in Jefferson County even though those haven't changed yet (not sure where they got them from, but given the numbers in Broome County are quite wrong, I'm taking them with a grain of salt).  Strange.

Does the plan have joint DOT/NYSTA activities in it?  If not, I can see them not caring about getting the numbers exactly right.  Heck, I wonder if they just got a weird snapshot of half-done Google Maps at some point.

[vdeane]

When I looked at the map for making comments for the Thruway's safety action plan, I noticed that the exit numbers around Syracuse looked really weird.  Turns out it's from Open Street Map.  Someone went through there and "updated" the exit numbers, but many of them are wrong or even nonsensical (such as the ones on I-81/future BL 81 based on current I-81 mileage, or where exit 78 was changed to 77 for seemingly no reason).  I-690 is affected too.  And it uses mile-based numbers in Jefferson County even though those haven't changed yet (not sure where they got them from, but given the numbers in Broome County are quite wrong, I'm taking them with a grain of salt).  Strange.

Does the plan have joint DOT/NYSTA activities in it?  If not, I can see them not caring about getting the numbers exactly right.  Heck, I wonder if they just got a weird snapshot of half-done Google Maps at some point.

It's not published yet; they're just taking public comment on things to look at right now (like the sticker boards in public meetings for studies).  It's just the exit numbers on the GIS base layer, which I assume is using OSM data.

[Rothman]

I-81 status update, my notes from a recent public meeting:

Northern Interchange (I-81/I-481/NY 481) is deemed "operational," although punch list/clean up work remains that'll be done this spring.

Weather has been a factor in the progress of the Southern Interchange (I-81/I-481).  New completion expected in late spring/early summer now.

I-481 over CSX is still expected to be done this fall.

The preparatory work for the I-690 reconstruction is ongoing, of course (I-690 around Crouse/Irving -- Google Maps still doesn't show the new on-ramp from Crouse to I-690 EB that's been open for weeks now...); traffic patterns should be changing soon (shifting from old to new carriageways to make room for the remaining work needing to be done).

I-690 reconstruction and remaining contracts are on schedule to get started over this federal fiscal year and into the next.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any updates on when Interstate 481 will be resigned as Interstate 81 (and Interstate 81 becoming signed as Business 81)?

[Rothman]

Are there any updates on when Interstate 481 will be resigned as Interstate 81 (and Interstate 81 becoming signed as Business 81)?

No.

[vdeane]

Northern Interchange (I-81/I-481/NY 481) is deemed "operational," although punch list/clean up work remains that'll be done this spring.

Does that include the mile markers in northern Onondaga County (and maybe even finally installing tenths in Oswego County)?  Last I saw, the dropped from 97 to 95 heading north (and then again from 100 to 103).

[Rothman]

Northern Interchange (I-81/I-481/NY 481) is deemed "operational," although punch list/clean up work remains that'll be done this spring.

Does that include the mile markers in northern Onondaga County (and maybe even finally installing tenths in Oswego County)?  Last I saw, the dropped from 97 to 95 heading north (and then again from 100 to 103).

Wasn't mentioned.

[vdeane]

Northern Interchange (I-81/I-481/NY 481) is deemed "operational," although punch list/clean up work remains that'll be done this spring.

Does that include the mile markers in northern Onondaga County (and maybe even finally installing tenths in Oswego County)?  Last I saw, the dropped from 97 to 95 heading north (and then again from 100 to 103).

Wasn't mentioned.

I wonder if they even remember that this hasn't been done (similar to how they don't seem to be aware that there's a discrepancy in the mileage south of the project area).

[vdeane]

Holy mother forking shirtballs, future I-81 south through the southern interchange is open!

https://www.facebook.com/NYSDOTI81

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=776079028895084&set=a.252515541251438

[The Ghostbuster]

Any change in signage?

[vdeane]

Any change in signage?

Doubt it - I'm sure it would have been mentioned if there was.

It's worth noting that Contract 2 still isn't anywhere close to completion and even Contract 1 still has some things they need to finish (last I saw, the mile markers and gore signs haven't been changed over along future BL 81 or the southern section of future I-81, nor I-81 in Cicero, so that would presumably need to be done first).  In addition to the bridges over the rail yard, the BL 81 to I-81 north (current I-81 south to I-481 north) ramp (exit 1A/former exit 16A) still isn't paved.

[cu2010]

Not sure how reliable of a source it is, but it being reported on Facebook saying that Jefferson County exit renumbering will finally begin tomorrow.