EPA rule rollback, effects?

[mgk920]

Within the past few days, the Trump administration rolled back a lot of USA federal EPA rules, many dating to the late 00s.  Among many of the changes are rules mandating 'start/stop' engines in new cars and light trucks.  Thoughts and other effects?

Mike

[kphoger]

They'll stop making cars where the a/c cuts out at every red light?

[Max Rockatansky]

I doubt you'll see much of a noticeable difference in the short term.  Most cars about to be released are too far into the development phase to alter much now.  Some automakers might not change anything out of concern the next administration might full reverse the rollback.

That said, start/stop technology was complete crap and needs to go.  Although it never was actually mandated by Federal authorities. 

[Rothman]

I doubt you'll see much of a noticeable difference in the short term.  Most cars about to be released are too far into the development phase to alter much now.  Some automakers might not change anything out of concern the next administration might full reverse the rollback.

That said, start/stop technology was complete crap and needs to go.  Although it never was actually mandated by Federal authorities. 

I was about to say, I don't think every car out there has the start/stop thingamajig. 

[Dirt Roads]

Within the past few days, the Trump administration rolled back a lot of USA federal EPA rules, many dating to the late 00s.  Among many of the changes are rules mandating 'start/stop' engines in new cars and light trucks.  Thoughts and other effects?

Mike

I doubt you'll see much of a noticeable difference in the short term.  Most cars about to be released are too far into the development phase to alter much now.  Some automakers might not change anything out of concern the next administration might full reverse the rollback.

That said, start/stop technology was complete crap and needs to go.  Although it never was actually mandated by Federal authorities. 

I was about to say, I don't think every car out there has the start/stop thingamajig. 

This is what is confusing the American automotive consumer.  The "Start/Stop" functionality that is no longer being pushed by the Environmental Protection Agency is designed such that the engine turns off when the vehicle is sitting at a complete stop.  Even if you weren't aggravated by the "Start/Stop" functionality, the "start/stop" pushbutton is still quite aggravating to many other people.

The elimination of EPA credits for "Start/Stop functionality" will probably not eliminate the use of pushbuttons for the engine start function.  Fully-interlocked key switches are quite expensive.  I suspect that very few people will be satisfied with the resultant changes (if any are noticeable).

[Rothman]

Within the past few days, the Trump administration rolled back a lot of USA federal EPA rules, many dating to the late 00s.  Among many of the changes are rules mandating 'start/stop' engines in new cars and light trucks.  Thoughts and other effects?

Mike

I doubt you'll see much of a noticeable difference in the short term.  Most cars about to be released are too far into the development phase to alter much now.  Some automakers might not change anything out of concern the next administration might full reverse the rollback.

That said, start/stop technology was complete crap and needs to go.  Although it never was actually mandated by Federal authorities. 

I was about to say, I don't think every car out there has the start/stop thingamajig. 

This is what is confusing the American automotive consumer.  The "Start/Stop" functionality that is no longer being pushed by the Environmental Protection Agency is designed such that the engine turns off when the vehicle is sitting at a complete stop.  Even if you weren't aggravated by the "Start/Stop" functionality, the "start/stop" pushbutton is still quite aggravating to many other people.

The elimination of EPA credits for "Start/Stop functionality" will probably not eliminate the use of pushbuttons for the engine start function.  Fully-interlocked key switches are quite expensive.  I suspect that very few people will be satisfied with the resultant changes (if any are noticeable).

Anything to support the idea that people don't like the start/stop push button and would like to go back to key ignitions rather than your gut?

Have to say that I enjoy the convenience of not having to take the key fob out of my pocket to get in my car and to start my car.  Took a little while to get used to, but there's no going back.

[Dirt Roads]

The elimination of EPA credits for "Start/Stop functionality" will probably not eliminate the use of pushbuttons for the engine start function.  Fully-interlocked key switches are quite expensive.  I suspect that very few people will be satisfied with the resultant changes (if any are noticeable).

source NAPAonline.com

By the way, I suspect that auto manufacturers are dealing with the human interface issue related to how the starter pushbutton will appear after the "Stop/Start functionality" is eliminated.  The current button both describes the functions (Start button, Stop button) and also indicates that the "Stop/Start functionality" is installed on this vehicle (and your engine should turn off whenever stopped).

By the way, I am presuming that the "Stop/Start functionality" will need to be eliminated by most auto manufacturers, as most vehicles are dependent on the credits to meet EPA requirements.  It is my understanding that most vehicles have higher emissions due to the "Stop/Start functionality" (ergo, restarting causes more emissions than short-term idling), but they have significantly reduced emissions at the intersection itself while stopped and not idling.  But there will certainly be kickback from the industry to get EPA concessions.

[Max Rockatansky]

The push button ignition doesn't really bother me all that much.  My Challenger has that has a feature and it never has been unreliable.  The battery life in the key fob is about three years and the car gives ample warning about it needing to be changed. 

[Dirt Roads]

Anything to support the idea that people don't like the start/stop push button and would like to go back to key ignitions rather than your gut?

I asked that question myself.  Every article that I have read thus far seems to take objection to the start/stop pushbutton and seemingly ignores that the primary issue is that the automatic restart feature isn't always ready to propel the vehicle when the accelerator is depressed. 

Have to say that I enjoy the convenience of not having to take the key fob out of my pocket to get in my car and to start my car.  Took a little while to get used to, but there's no going back.

Totally agree.  I do have an issue with the placement of the start/stop pushbutton; my wife can see it on most vehicles but I can't see it without creening around the steering wheel.  (The primary issue is trying to identify whether I still have the vehicle in "Auxiliary Mode" when parked in a parking lot/parking space).

The other issue is specific to Honda (and may have been corrected).  When the main computer had a glitch, you will be running down the road and get an error message on the screen that requires a reboot.  The head unit displays a message "Press POWER button to reboot".  The first time I got the message while driving, I was doing 70MPH on the Interstate and pressed the start/stop pushbutton without thinking.  The reaction wasn't unsafe, but I did have to scramble to figure out how to keep the car from executing a complete shutdown. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Within the past few days, the Trump administration rolled back a lot of USA federal EPA rules, many dating to the late 00s.  Among many of the changes are rules mandating 'start/stop' engines in new cars and light trucks.  Thoughts and other effects?

Mike

The planet becoming uninhabitable by 2100.

[Rothman]

Anything to support the idea that people don't like the start/stop push button and would like to go back to key ignitions rather than your gut?

I asked that question myself.  Every article that I have read thus far seems to take objection to the start/stop pushbutton and seemingly ignores that the primary issue is that the automatic restart feature isn't always ready to propel the vehicle when the accelerator is depressed. 

Got one or two you could share?

[SP Cook]

The first religion was some guy telling others that he made the sun come up, the rain fall, the crops grow, etc. and if everyone didn't do as he said, he would stop these.

Sadly there are those that still fall for this act.

Environmental rollbacks will make ordinary lives better.  More people will be able to have the things they want.

More roads.  Better and more affordable cars.  More food. More warmth.  More healthcare.  More happiness.   

Count me in.

Anybody who thinks start stop is not stupid doesn't understand how starters work or how oil lubrication works.  And since automakers make cars in other, more sensible countries, they can delete this dumb idea next model year. 

[Rothman]

The first religion was some guy telling others that he made the sun come up, the rain fall, the crops grow, etc. and if everyone didn't do as he said, he would stop these.

Sadly there are those that still fall for this act. 

Sadly, there are those that still fall for misinformation about negative human impacts on the environment.

[LilianaUwU]

There's one thing I don't get, though: how is push button ignition in any way different for the environment?

[mgk920]

That 'start/stop/ thing also puts a LOT of wear and tear on the starting system.

Mike

[Max Rockatansky]

The first religion was some guy telling others that he made the sun come up, the rain fall, the crops grow, etc. and if everyone didn't do as he said, he would stop these.

Sadly there are those that still fall for this act. 

Sadly, there are those that still fall for misinformation about negative human impacts on the environment.

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

I've always been curious to see how much wear there is on starter motors in cars with start/stop versus those without the technology.

There's one thing I don't get, though: how is push button ignition in any way different for the environment?

There isn't a difference. 

[wxfree]

^^^

I've always been curious to see how much wear there is on starter motors in cars with start/stop versus those without the technology.

There's one thing I don't get, though: how is push button ignition in any way different for the environment?

There isn't a difference. 

Mechanical key switches require occasional lubrication, a dry carbon graphite power, which doesn't leave oil deposits in the lock.  The powder kind of smears and lubricates the moving parts.  It doesn't really require it, but it's a good idea for maximum life.  Maybe one person in a thousand actually uses it, but the push button requires no outside lubricant, eliminating the manufacture and transport of the product.

[SP Cook]

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

You have a garage the size of the whole world?  Wow.

Man is part of the environment.  Histrionic statements about he world coming to an end in 75 years, belong in the same file as all other such predictions, no matter the religion.

The one marked "wrong".

[Max Rockatansky]

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

You have a garage the size of the whole world?  Wow.

Man is part of the environment.  Histrionic statements about he world coming to an end in 75 years, belong in the same file as all other such predictions, no matter the religion.

The one marked "wrong".

Have I ever struck you as someone who wasn't a car enthusiast?  I'm all for cheaper and less restricted cars.  Thing is the basis here of exhaust emissions as not being harmful is just plain fucking stupid. 

I'd like to point out that I was very much in favor of the EPA denying the waivers CARB had for the 2035 PHEV mandate.  At least that had some real basis in the tech not being there yet and being consumer unfriendly. 

[Rothman]

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

You have a garage the size of the whole world?  Wow.

Man is part of the environment.  Histrionic statements about he world coming to an end in 75 years, belong in the same file as all other such predictions, no matter the religion.

The one marked "wrong".

Eh, have to agree strictly on those grounds.

I mean, we may be munching on soylent green, but the world may still be technically inhabitable.

[Max Rockatansky]

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

You have a garage the size of the whole world?  Wow.

Man is part of the environment.  Histrionic statements about he world coming to an end in 75 years, belong in the same file as all other such predictions, no matter the religion.

The one marked "wrong".

Eh, have to agree strictly on those grounds.

I mean, we may be munching on soylent green, but the world may still be technically inhabitable.

I don't the Soylent Corporation is offering their Green line anymore.  I ordered a pack when they were released, not all that bad.

https://soylent.com/pages/about-the-company

[kalvado]

The first religion was some guy telling others that he made the sun come up, the rain fall, the crops grow, etc. and if everyone didn't do as he said, he would stop these.

Sadly there are those that still fall for this act. 

Sadly, there are those that still fall for misinformation about negative human impacts on the environment.

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

Try doing that with a plastic bag on your head to see how harmful your exhale is..
And running car in garage is less lethal, due to catalytic taking out CO.
Talking about that, I don't know how long it takes converter to cool down below working point....

[Max Rockatansky]

The first religion was some guy telling others that he made the sun come up, the rain fall, the crops grow, etc. and if everyone didn't do as he said, he would stop these.

Sadly there are those that still fall for this act. 

Sadly, there are those that still fall for misinformation about negative human impacts on the environment.

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

Try doing that with a plastic bag on your head to see how harmful your exhale is..
And running car in garage is less lethal, due to catalytic taking out CO.
Talking about that, I don't know how long it takes converter to cool down below working point....

An employee at a Sears I was an LP Manager tried to measure this once on a shift.  The gauge of plastic apparently was thin enough that he was able to get oxygen. 

[GaryV]

The harmfulness of exhaust emissions is easily measured.  Just close a garage, keep a gasoline engine running and measure the effects of what happens to all life forms contained within an hour or so later.

Most of those exhaust emissions are still regulated. What was cut was regulations relating to greenhouse gases, mostly CO2.

Regulations are still in place for pollutants like CO, NOx, hydrocarbons, etc.