Washington

[jakeroot]

Japan at least has the public transit infrastructure to better handle a .03 limit.

Yeah, but mostly in the cities. And even then, public transport ends by midnight, so it's usually best for getting somewhere, not home. Taxis are the heavy lifter in Japan for the truly inebriated, much as it should be for most Americans (mostly Uber or Lyft here though).

In the US, it's just more socially acceptable to drive, have a couple drinks, and probably make it home. And, let's be real, that's because you normally can do that legally and get home safely. Most humans in every country are likely capable of drinking a couple beers and getting home safely. The point, really, is that grey area; in Japan, there is no grey area, you do not drink and drive because you're guaranteed a DUI. The grey area in .08 countries is much larger, so more people are willing to take the risk.

To be clear, DUIs exist in Japan, and plenty of people got them, mostly older men. But crazy late-night high speed alcohol-fueled fatality collisions were rare as hen's teeth. The number of truly wasted people that I saw in Japan was vastly higher than here in the US (Japan has a huge alcoholism issue), but, importantly, virtually none of them had car keys in their pockets.

[Rothman]

My experience living in Duluth, MN/Superior, WI was that people greatly exaggerate their cognitive abilities after drinking, causing DUI deaths to be quite common up there.

All I can say is that the only scenario where I would go Mr. Blonde on someone would be if they hit one of my kids while under the influence.

[Quillz]

Japan at least has the public transit infrastructure to better handle a .03 limit.

Yeah, but mostly in the cities. And even then, public transport ends by midnight, so it's usually best for getting somewhere, not home. Taxis are the heavy lifter in Japan for the truly inebriated, much as it should be for most Americans (mostly Uber or Lyft here though).

In the US, it's just more socially acceptable to drive, have a couple drinks, and probably make it home. And, let's be real, that's because you normally can do that legally and get home safely. Most humans in every country are likely capable of drinking a couple beers and getting home safely. The point, really, is that grey area; in Japan, there is no grey area, you do not drink and drive because you're guaranteed a DUI. The grey area in .08 countries is much larger, so more people are willing to take the risk.

To be clear, DUIs exist in Japan, and plenty of people got them, mostly older men. But crazy late-night high speed alcohol-fueled fatality collisions were rare as hen's teeth. The number of truly wasted people that I saw in Japan was vastly higher than here in the US (Japan has a huge alcoholism issue), but, importantly, virtually none of them had car keys in their pockets.

I'm surprised that Alaska doesn't have a limit as low as what Utah (and now Washington) has, given alcoholism is a major issue there, especially amongst the Alaska natives.

As an aside, I was watching a guy review a SUV from the 1970s, and right in the center console was an ice chest, clearly intended for your beers. By the 90s, it was replaced with a gun safe.

[jakeroot]

My experience living in Duluth, MN/Superior, WI was that people greatly exaggerate their cognitive abilities after drinking, causing DUI deaths to be quite common up there.

That's like the key thing with alcohol, it reduces functioning in the prefrontal cortex, which among other things, causes us to be more confident.

This isn't really a problem most of the time, I have many good memories getting absolutely smashed with coworkers and friends. But I didn't drive home after, and neither did any of them; we didn't go out with our cars at all because we knew we'd drink and couldn't legally drive home, even after just one beer. That decision (not to drive) was 100% driven by Japan's .03% BAC limit, full-stop.

Oddly, having a very low BAC limit does cause people to possibly go overboard when they do drink, because if they don't have a car, there's really no reason to stop drinking. Apart from being cutoff or being so pissed you cannot even order another drink. Whether that is better than the American-style casual one or two beers with dinner and driving home is debatable. But the DUI rates in the US are cause for concern, and I do genuinely believe many serious DUI crashes have started with someone saying, "I'll be fine" at lunch or dinner after having driven there.

[jay8g]

WSDOT posted this document as part of an upcoming project to paint the Skagit River bridge in downtown Mount Vernon, which perfectly shows the decline in maintenance funding here. The bridge was built in 1953, and repainted in 1964, 1974, 1984, and 1990. Nothing since then. In other words, in the first 37 years after this bridge was built, it was repainted 4 times; in the following 36 years, it has not yet been painted once. You could argue that perhaps modern paint lasts longer, or perhaps it doesn't need to be painted as often now that the swing part isn't operational, but the current condition of the bridge is really telling.

WSDOT already has one bridge indefinitely closed due to a lack of routine maintenance (SR 165 near Mt Rainier), and another (SR 162 not far north of there) that has been replaced by a "temporary" bridge for years after the original bridge was closed for similar reasons. I wonder how many more things like this we'll see in the coming years.

[Bruce]

WSDOT posted this document as part of an upcoming project to paint the Skagit River bridge in downtown Mount Vernon, which perfectly shows the decline in maintenance funding here. The bridge was built in 1953, and repainted in 1964, 1974, 1984, and 1990. Nothing since then. In other words, in the first 37 years after this bridge was built, it was repainted 4 times; in the following 36 years, it has not yet been painted once. You could argue that perhaps modern paint lasts longer, or perhaps it doesn't need to be painted as often now that the swing part isn't operational, but the current condition of the bridge is really telling.

WSDOT already has one bridge indefinitely closed due to a lack of routine maintenance (SR 165 near Mt Rainier), and another (SR 162 not far north of there) that has been replaced by a "temporary" bridge for years after the original bridge was closed for similar reasons. I wonder how many more things like this we'll see in the coming years.

A lot of the deferred maintenance can be traced back to two things: the gas tax not keeping pace with inflation; and the consequences of setting the car tabs too low (the $30 cap that was in place for a while in the 2000s thanks to Eyman). The latter is also the primary reason why the ferries have been in a near-continual crisis since 2001.

[Amaury]

Is there a reason why the Southwest Region, south of Centralia, tabbed exits are much more used, such as here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/hTJisHSVddNtQCm67 Or is it just because? It looks like it used to be the all-in-one seen like in the rest of the state, as seen here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/eVqjT7cvuiNkwS1e9 But in recent years they seem to have updated.

The rest of the state uses the all-in-one like here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/48gJM4Urga6jXacY8

[xonhulu]

Is there a reason why the Southwest Region, south of Centralia, tabbed exits are much more used, such as here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/hTJisHSVddNtQCm67 Or is it just because? It looks like it used to be the all-in-one seen like in the rest of the state, as seen here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/eVqjT7cvuiNkwS1e9 But in recent years they seem to have updated.

The rest of the state uses the all-in-one like here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/48gJM4Urga6jXacY8

Maybe they installed replacement signs that were generic "Exit" signs lacking the exit number first. Then the mistake was realized, so they added the tabs later as a correction?

[kkt]

I-90 over Snoqualmie Pass in Washington State closed in both directions, due to blizzard conditions and multiple accidents.

[jakeroot]

Cross-posting this from another roundabout thread:

2x3 roundabouts definitely seem like a pipe dream these days. Never mind Summerlin-style 3x3 roundabouts.

With that in mind, a privately-funded 2x3 lane roundabout is being built where WA-162 meets 128th St south of Sumner, WA. It will be Washington's first roundabout with 3 circulating lanes (the first three lane entry was WA-9 at WA-204, built a few years ago).

This project has been in the works for some time. I thought it would never get built, but I just went through the area last week, and construction is well underway (including the widening of SR-162 and widening of 128th).

https://sr162traffic.org/SR162/MCMILLIN-ROUNDABOUT/

[The Ghostbuster]

Are roundabouts common in the state of Washington?

[jakeroot]

Are roundabouts common in the state of Washington?

Yes. There are hundreds. I don't know the exact number, but I would estimate around 400.

Like most states, the vast majority are single lane. But there's also many two-lane roundabouts.

[Amaury]

We have two in our city.

[jakeroot]

Random photo I took while out flying today of the I-5/16 interchange:


I-5 at WA-16 by Jacob Root, on Flickr

[Great Lakes Roads]

Welp, I learned something new- SR 520 is the only location in Washington state that has the HOV lane set at 3+ instead of the normal 2+.

[Rothman]

Welp, I learned something new- SR 520 is the only location in Washington state that has the HOV lane set at 3+ instead of the normal 2+.

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

[kphoger]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.

To be fair, though, the list of things you loathe with a passion is very long.

[Rothman]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.

To be fair, though, the list of things you loathe with a passion is very long.

I'm very passionate when it comes to loathing.

[Bruce]

Welp, I learned something new- SR 520 is the only location in Washington state that has the HOV lane set at 3+ instead of the normal 2+.

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

Not on SR 520 (and really most of I-5). I'd argue we need to turn it into a peak-only bus lane at times because of the volume of buses (both Metro/ST and private Microsoft shuttles) require that kind of support. And if you are stuck carpooling, then there's always expanded options from within companies or with Metro's carpool/vanpool matching programs.

[stevashe]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

On the contrary, most of the 2+ lanes in the Seattle area are regularly congested. The worst offender, I-5 to the North and South of Seattle, usually has the HOV lane saving barely few minutes over the regular lanes, if that.

[pderocco]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

On the contrary, most of the 2+ lanes in the Seattle area are regularly congested. The worst offender, I-5 to the North and South of Seattle, usually has the HOV lane saving barely few minutes over the regular lanes, if that.

I doubt an HOV lane incentivizes much actual carpooling. It's just cars that happen to have two or more people in them. So it's rewarding the appearance of virtue.

[Rothman]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

On the contrary, most of the 2+ lanes in the Seattle area are regularly congested. The worst offender, I-5 to the North and South of Seattle, usually has the HOV lane saving barely few minutes over the regular lanes, if that.

I doubt an HOV lane incentivizes much actual carpooling. It's just cars that happen to have two or more people in them. So it's rewarding the appearance of virtue.

^This.  I visit the area once or twice a year now and find the HOT/HOV lanes on I-405 quite convenient.  But, that 3+ on 520 just seems to be a very poorly underutilized lane to me -- a waste of capacity.  If anything, you see a decent proportion of people just risking it...

[jakeroot]

Not on SR 520 (and really most of I-5). I'd argue we need to turn it into a peak-only bus lane at times because of the volume of buses (both Metro/ST and private Microsoft shuttles) require that kind of support. And if you are stuck carpooling, then there's always expanded options from within companies or with Metro's carpool/vanpool matching programs.

There is very little incentive to even think about carpooling at all if you primarily drive the 520 west of the 405. It's an "ultimate design" six to eight lane freeway with an AADT around 60,000. The only regular congestion is approaching I-5 in the evening where there is no carpool lane (yet). Other than that, it's basically free-flow all day.

If anything, you see a decent proportion of people just risking it...

I would reckon 80% of 2+ carpool lane drivers on that section of the 520 have no idea the rule is 3+. It's so out of the norm for this area that I'm sure most drivers, even regular drivers, don't realize it.

I'm certain WSP's unwritten rule is to only stop single-occupancy drivers.

[jakeroot]

More aero photography from yesterday:


WA-9 at WA-204, Lake Stevens by Jacob Root, on Flickr


I-5 at Smokey Point / North Lakewood by Jacob Root, on Flickr


I-5 at Smokey Point / North Lakewood by Jacob Root, on Flickr

[Bruce]

I loathe 3+ with a passion.  HOV 2+ is always sufficient for those who think this is a good way of keeping a lane less congested.

On the contrary, most of the 2+ lanes in the Seattle area are regularly congested. The worst offender, I-5 to the North and South of Seattle, usually has the HOV lane saving barely few minutes over the regular lanes, if that.

I doubt an HOV lane incentivizes much actual carpooling. It's just cars that happen to have two or more people in them. So it's rewarding the appearance of virtue.

The abundance of HOV lanes in the region is not the only tool being used to encourage more efficient commutes. Since 1991, large businesses in Washington are required to participate in the state's commute trip reduction program, which includes subsidies for transit passes (many opt for an unlimited monthly pass, which is a nice perk), payments for carpool/vanpool users, and other monetary incentives. One of my friends who worked for a tech giant in the area got a $7 daily "bonus" if he arrived at work without using a personal vehicle; parking at that workplace was also charged fairly high because it was in a transit-accessible area. Some employers provide free or more convenient parking for carpool and vanpool users, while others have shuttle bus fleets of their own.

So it's more than just appearances. There's a reason why Downtown Seattle had a 46% transit and 9% carpool/vanpool rate in 2019, compared to 26% in single-occupant vehicles. Which is a pretty significant decline from 35% SOV in 2010. (Source)