I-44's Extension into Texas via the substandard H.E. Bailey Turnpike

[kphoger]

What I meant was more in the nature of that I find it interesting to see the sorts of things we now view as substandard that were once thought to be reasonable. In other words, I'm not surprised to see substandard design, I just find it interesting to see what kinds of substandard designs were used.

Such as, for example, nothing but a narrow strip of grass separating lanes of 75mph traffic on an Interstate in Oklahoma?

[1995hoo]

What I meant was more in the nature of that I find it interesting to see the sorts of things we now view as substandard that were once thought to be reasonable. In other words, I'm not surprised to see substandard design, I just find it interesting to see what kinds of substandard designs were used.

Such as, for example, nothing but a narrow strip of grass separating lanes of 75mph traffic on an Interstate in Oklahoma?

Wow. No barrier at all. Yup, I find that sort of thing interesting as well. Even the Pennsylvania Turnpike now has a median barrier.

Oklahoma is one of the nine states I have yet to visit.

[Beltway]

What I meant was more in the nature of that I find it interesting to see the sorts of things we now view as substandard that were once thought to be reasonable. In other words, I'm not surprised to see substandard design, I just find it interesting to see what kinds of substandard designs were used.

Such as, for example, nothing but a narrow strip of grass separating lanes of 75mph traffic on an Interstate in Oklahoma?

Wow. No barrier at all. Yup, I find that sort of thing interesting as well. Even the Pennsylvania Turnpike now has a median barrier.
Oklahoma is one of the nine states I have yet to visit.

Old photo -- I believe all the H. E. Bailey Turnpike now has a paved median with either concrete or high-tension cable median barrier.

Go a couple clicks forward and a couple back and you will see what I mean.

Besides, it was built as a state-built turnpike and not an Interstate highway. Designated I-44 in the 1980s.

[kphoger]

Old photo -- I believe all the H. E. Bailey Turnpike now has a paved median with either concrete or high-tension cable median barrier.

Besides, it was built as a state-built turnpike and not an Interstate highway. Designated I-44 in the 1980s.

Correct on both counts.

Kind of like how the RPT was under the state Richmond–Petersburg Turnpike Authority before being designated I-95 in 1958.

It amuses me that the narrow grassy strip continued to be a good enough median for the H. E. Bailey Turnpike for more than thirty years after it was designated as an Interstate.

[1995hoo]

My point was not whether something was built as an Interstate. I think most of us would probably agree that regardless of how it was classified when it was built, modern sensibilities would dictate that a highway with a 75-mph speed limit and a narrow strip of grass of the sort seen in that photo, with no other barrier, isn't a particularly safe design and that we would consider it "substandard" for that reason regardless of whether it's an Interstate, a US Highway, a German autobahn, or something else. In other words, "substandard" not with respect to any particular set of engineering guidelines, but in a general sense. (I recognize there are two-lane roads with 75-mph speed limits in Texas. I've never driven on any of them, though.)

Sometimes I forget how carefully you have to define every word to satisfy certain people. While I can be pedantic, I tend to think it's reasonable to assume people don't need every word defined for them to understand a comment.

[kphoger]

I find it interesting to see the sorts of things we now view as substandard that were once thought to be reasonable.

My point was not whether something was built as an Interstate. I think most of us would probably agree that regardless of how it was classified when it was built, modern sensibilities would dictate that a highway with a 75-mph speed limit and a narrow strip of grass of the sort seen in that photo, with no other barrier, isn't a particularly safe design and that we would consider it "substandard" for that reason regardless of whether it's an Interstate, a US Highway, a German autobahn, or something else. In other words, "substandard" not with respect to any particular set of engineering guidelines, but in a general sense.

But that's just it.  The opening of the H. E. Bailey Turnpike predated the NMSL, which means, I think, it had a 70 mph speed limit when it opened.  Our modern sensibilities about what is 'substandard' have changed since then.

[Beltway]

Old photo -- I believe all the H. E. Bailey Turnpike now has a paved median with either concrete or high-tension cable median barrier. Besides, it was built as a state-built turnpike and not an Interstate highway. Designated I-44 in the 1980s.

Correct on both counts. Kind of like how the RPT was under the state Richmond–Petersburg Turnpike Authority before being designated I-95 in 1958.

That was almost immediate as being needed for I-95. Tolls were fully removed in 1992.

It amuses me that the narrow grassy strip continued to be a good enough median for the H. E. Bailey Turnpike for more than thirty years after it was designated as an Interstate.

More like a 20 foot median, and we would need to ascertain when it was rebuilt.

I scrolled through the whole Bailey on Google Satellite View, and it appears there are long sections of 36 foot and 60 foot grass medians, and that all of the narrow has been rebuilt.

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place? It ends in Wichita Falls far from any other Interstate highway.

[kphoger]

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place? It ends in Wichita Falls far from any other Interstate highway.

I guess I've just always assumed it was so Fort Sill and Sheppard AFB were on the Interstate system.

For what it's worth, Oklahoma attempted several times to get the FHA to extend I-44 from Lawton to Abilene TX (I-20), but to no avail.  Therefore, Oklahoma and Texas agreed to amend the extension request to end I-44 in Wichita Falls instead.

[kphoger]

Interestingly, in looking into it, I found this from the FHA regarding an extension of I-44 along the H. E. Bailey Turnpike:

The route will require the correction of safety elements consistent with current safety policies and standards.  The following list of safety improvements should be accomplished to meet these policies and standards:

[...]

(b) Construct an inside shoulder.

(c) Widen the median or provide a continuous median barrier.

[...]

(h) Delete curbs unless they are absolutely necessary for drainage.

[...]

And also this nugget:

[1995hoo]

I find it interesting to see the sorts of things we now view as substandard that were once thought to be reasonable.

My point was not whether something was built as an Interstate. I think most of us would probably agree that regardless of how it was classified when it was built, modern sensibilities would dictate that a highway with a 75-mph speed limit and a narrow strip of grass of the sort seen in that photo, with no other barrier, isn't a particularly safe design and that we would consider it "substandard" for that reason regardless of whether it's an Interstate, a US Highway, a German autobahn, or something else. In other words, "substandard" not with respect to any particular set of engineering guidelines, but in a general sense.

But that's just it.  The opening of the H. E. Bailey Turnpike predated the NMSL, which means, I think, it had a 70 mph speed limit when it opened.  Our modern sensibilities about what is 'substandard' have changed since then.

Right. I agree with that last sentence. My point was that it is interesting to see what sort of design features used to be accepted that would not be accepted today. I'm not saying, "Man, those people were idiots for designing a road that way." I just find changing design standards to be interesting.

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place? It ends in Wichita Falls far from any other Interstate highway.

I guess I've just always assumed it was so Fort Sill and Sheppard AFB were on the Interstate system.

....

If it had been done in the latter part of the 1980s, I would have assumed it was so that it would be eligible for the 65-mph speed limit that was, at the time, restricted to rural Interstates only. But it looks like the designation came prior to that NMSL amendment.

[Beltway]

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place? It ends in Wichita Falls far from any other Interstate highway.

I guess I've just always assumed it was so Fort Sill and Sheppard AFB were on the Interstate system.
For what it's worth, Oklahoma attempted several times to get the FHA to extend I-44 from Lawton to Abilene TX (I-20), but to no avail.  Therefore, Oklahoma and Texas agreed to amend the extension request to end I-44 in Wichita Falls instead.

Some bases are not on the Interstate system. Forts Pickett, A.P. Hill and Dover AFB come to mind.

Texas would have to agree to that. Plus there was no superhighway there and most of the route was still 2-lane nonlimited-access highway. So they would have to built such a highway.

[kphoger]

Texas would have to agree to that.

Yes.  They were in the discussions.

For presentation at the commission meeting of April 7, 1975

During the interim period, we have been discussing this matter with the Texas Highway Department, and on an informal basis with officials from the Federal Highway Administration.  Our discussions have been in the context of ending the proposed Interstate route at a connection with US 82 and US 277 at Wichita Falls rather than extending it initially all the way to Abilene.  This concept has received favorable response from Texas.

Specifically, we are now requesting that the Highway Commission authorize the Department to prepare the necessary documents for submission to the Federal Highway Administration, requesting that the Interstate 44 (I-44) designation be extended, via I-35 and I-240, to the US 62 connection with the Baily Turnpike southwest of Oklahoma City, and extending southwesterly along US 62, H. E. Baily Turnpike, US 277, and the section of the H. E. Bailey Turnpike south of Lawton, connecting with US 277, extending on south across the Red River to its junction with US 82 in Wichita Falls, Texas.

The Department is of the opinion this is a logical addition to the Interstate System, and with the pending construction of the interchange at Rogers Lane and US 277 just north of Lawton, this will be a fully controlled access facility along the entire extents in Oklahoma.  The Texas Highway Commission has agreed that upon approval of the designation, they will then take immediate steps to improve the section between the Red River and Wichita Falls to controlled access standards.

[Beltway]

Texas would have to agree to that.

Yes.  They were in the discussions.

For presentation at the commission meeting of April 7, 1975
During the interim period, we have been discussing this matter with the Texas Highway Department, and on an informal basis with officials from the Federal Highway Administration.  Our discussions have been in the context of ending the proposed Interstate route at a connection with US 82 and US 277 at Wichita Falls rather than extending it initially all the way to Abilene.  This concept has received favorable response from Texas.

"Favorable response" is rather vague.

I drove that route back then (1972) and the rural sections had very low traffic and the 2 lane sections worked fine.

There also was a missing link about 5 miles long between the Bailey and the OKC freeway system. Served by an arterial highway.

The [Okla.] Department is of the opinion this is a logical addition to the Interstate System, and with the pending construction of the interchange at Rogers Lane and US 277 just north of Lawton, this will be a fully controlled access facility along the entire extents in Oklahoma.  The Texas Highway Commission has agreed that upon approval of the designation, they will then take immediate steps to improve the section between the Red River and Wichita Falls to controlled access standards.

The Texas Highway Commission agreed to upgrade the 12 miles between the Red River and Wichita Falls. Wichita Falls population in 1970 was about 97,000, much larger than the 50,000 desired threshold for national Interstate service.

So Texas connected that to the Bailey which ultimately would connect to the OKC Interstate system. 

That is not an agreement to extend I-44 about 140 miles to Abilene which has Interstate service of its own.

Abilene already gets Interstate service to OKC via I-20 and I-35.

[Beltway]

Actually I stepped thru this years ago -- probably 1980s --

Wichita Falls being the main reason for I-44 being extended there.  About 97,000 population in 1970, and it gets Interstate service. Even though the vast majority is in Oklahoma, they already have a superhighway covering nearly the whole distance, needs to be connected to at least I-240.

So the city got Interstate connectivity even though it is just one direction. Lubbock in the same boat with I-27 (in the 1968 additions of 1,500 miles nationwide). Lubbock's 1960 population was about 128,000.

[sprjus4]

Abilene already gets Interstate service to OKC via I-20 and I-35.

I-20 and I-35 adds around 50 miles and 50 minutes to the trip over US-277 and I-44.

That being said, with the exception of Anson, US-277 in Texas is a four lane 75 mph divided highway with town bypasses for the most part, so there is little need for any major improvements outside of bypassing Anson.

[Bobby5280]

I still remember when I was a kid in 1982 seeing I-44 signs with a "Future" panel above the Interstate shield. They were visible in Wichita Falls going up to Burkburnett and along the H.E. Bailey Turnpike in Oklahoma.

It amuses me that the narrow grassy strip continued to be a good enough median for the H. E. Bailey Turnpike for more than thirty years after it was designated as an Interstate.

The portion of the H.E. Bailey Turnpike from the Medicine Park exit up to the OKC metro got equipped with a concrete Jersey barrier in the late 1990's. The Turner Turnpike and Will Rogers Turnpike got the concrete barriers during the same era. It's the portion South of Lawton that got neglected for another 20-plus years. The cable barrier system they finally installed looks pretty cheap compared to a normal Jersey barrier.

More like a 20 foot median, and we would need to ascertain when it was rebuilt.

The narrow grassy medians on Oklahoma turnpikes like the H.E. Bailey were not 20 feet wide. They were more in the 12 foot wide range. When I drive on I-44 from Lawton to Wichita Falls the roadway seems a lot like driving on a 5-lane street. Instead of a center turn lane a cable barrier is present.

It's been a little over 10 years since the cable barrier was installed on that portion of the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. Oklahoma has some other turnpike segments with more recent cable barrier installs, such as recent work done on the Cimarron Turnpike to make it more compliant with Interstate standards (and the future I-42 designation).

For what it's worth, Oklahoma attempted several times to get the FHA to extend I-44 from Lawton to Abilene TX (I-20), but to no avail.  Therefore, Oklahoma and Texas agreed to amend the extension request to end I-44 in Wichita Falls instead.

On the bright side, the 4-lane expansion TX DOT did on US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene would make it much easier to bring that highway up to Interstate standards if they wanted to do so in the future.

It's a shame the proposed Kell Freeway extension to the Holliday Bypass was not approved. I suppose it could be revisited in the future.

[kphoger]

That being said, with the exception of Anson, US-277 in Texas is a four lane 75 mph divided highway with town bypasses for the most part, so there is little need for any major improvements outside of bypassing Anson.

But that was completed less than a dozen years ago.

The Texas Highway Commission agreed to upgrade the 12 miles between the Red River and Wichita Falls ... That is not an agreement to extend I-44 about 140 miles to Abilene ...

Correct.  Sorry if it sounded like I was saying otherwise.  I haven't been able to hunt down anything about what Texas specifically was saying before 1975 about the Abilene extension, which is when they agreed to only extend it to Wichita Falls.  I supposed it's possible that the reason Oklahoma hadn't previously been successful with the FHA was that Texas didn't want to upgrade the corridor, but that would just be conjecture.

[Beltway]

The portion of the H.E. Bailey Turnpike from the Medicine Park exit up to the OKC metro got equipped with a concrete Jersey barrier in the late 1990's. The Turner Turnpike and Will Rogers Turnpike got the concrete barriers during the same era. It's the portion South of Lawton that got neglected for another 20-plus years. The cable barrier system they finally installed looks pretty cheap compared to a normal Jersey barrier.

High Tension Cable Guardrail is much stronger than it looks.

The posts are sacrificial; the strength is in the tensioned steel cables. When a vehicle hits the system, the posts are designed to break away so the cables can "catch" the vehicle and absorb energy over a long distance. Properly tensioned cable systems routinely outperform W‑beam guardrail in preventing cross‑median crashes, and they can contain heavy pickups and SUVs that would blow through older designs.

[Beltway]

Abilene already gets Interstate service to OKC via I-20 and I-35.

I-20 and I-35 adds around 50 miles and 50 minutes to the trip over US-277 and I-44.
That being said, with the exception of Anson, US-277 in Texas is a four lane 75 mph divided highway with town bypasses for the most part, so there is little need for any major improvements outside of bypassing Anson.

289 miles via US-277 and I-44. So the 50 miles is not big percentagewise. However Google Maps does route it via US-277 and I-44. Several alternates but none via I-20/I-35.

[Beltway]

The narrow grassy medians on Oklahoma turnpikes like the H.E. Bailey were not 20 feet wide. They were more in the 12 foot wide range.

Not sure why Oklahoma did that. Penna. is the only other state that used such narrow turnpike medians.

[Scott5114]

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place?

It was done to celebrate Oklahoma's 75th anniversary of statehood. Much like the meat cleaver was introduced to celebrate its centennial.

Oklahoma celebrates things in weird ways.

Not sure why Oklahoma did that.

The government of Oklahoma is cheap.

[Beltway]

The alternate question is why designate the Bailey as I-44 in the first place?

It was done to celebrate Oklahoma's 75th anniversary of statehood. Much like the meat cleaver was introduced to celebrate its centennial. Oklahoma celebrates things in weird ways.

Are you posting in "riff mode" or in "research mode"?

Not sure why Oklahoma did that.

The government of Oklahoma is cheap.

They built an extensive system of turnpikes to supplement the Interstate system. Oklahoma's turnpike system is 630 miles long.

[Scott5114]

Are you posting in "riff mode" or in "research mode"?

"I-240 Section Changing to I-44". The Daily Oklahoman. October 9, 1982.

They built an extensive system of turnpikes to supplement the Interstate system. Oklahoma's turnpike system is 630 miles long.

The intent for most of this construction was more to do an end-run around Oklahoma constitutional requirements that prevent the state from taking on debt. ODOT is strictly held to a pay-as-you-go model, which is why it takes Oklahoma roughly a decade to complete projects that Nevada can get done in under a year—they can only spend money as it trickles in annually from the Legislature. That restriction does not apply to OTA, which is allowed to issue revenue bonds, as they have a revenue source that allows them to be repaid.

Some of the turnpike mileage in Oklahoma was constructed because there was a genuine need for it (either due to traffic counts, like the urban turnpikes, or as a safety improvement, as was the case with the Cherokee). Some was constructed due to political considerations (such as the Chickasaw, which could be charitably called the result of horse trading or less charitably as pork). All of it is cross-pledged against each other, meaning that the I-44 turnpikes effectively subsidize construction and maintenance of the rest of the system.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Interstate 33 designation could have been used for the Wichita Falls-Oklahoma City corridor, although extending the Interstate 44 designation was likely done to give the three toll roads one number. Still, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike should've been upgraded to Interstate Standards, although it is not too late to do so.

[Beltway]

Are you posting in "riff mode" or in "research mode"?

"I-240 Section Changing to I-44". The Daily Oklahoman. October 9, 1982.

Interesting but several sources support Wichita Falls being the main factor, a ~97,000 population in 1960 with no Interstate highway service.

They built an extensive system of turnpikes to supplement the Interstate system. Oklahoma's turnpike system is 630 miles long.

The intent for most of this construction was more to do an end-run around Oklahoma constitutional requirements that prevent the state from taking on debt. ODOT is strictly held to a pay-as-you-go model, which is why it takes Oklahoma roughly a decade to complete projects that Nevada can get done in under a year—they can only spend money as it trickles in annually from the Legislature. That restriction does not apply to OTA, which is allowed to issue revenue bonds, as they have a revenue source that allows them to be repaid.
Some of the turnpike mileage in Oklahoma was constructed because there was a genuine need for it (either due to traffic counts, like the urban turnpikes, or as a safety improvement, as was the case with the Cherokee). Some was constructed due to political considerations (such as the Chickasaw, which could be charitably called the result of horse trading or less charitably as pork). All of it is cross-pledged against each other, meaning that the I-44 turnpikes effectively subsidize construction and maintenance of the rest of the system.

I have seen at least 5 Oklahomans bashing their state online in various forums in the past. Including their highways. Seems like a pretty decent state to me.

MD and PA have the same issue of high volume tollroads subsidizing low volume tollroads. Not sure what the solution is there when the latter are still quite useful.

Some do have very low volume, Cimirron highest ~9,000 and about half the length ~5,000. Surprising for what could be an Interstate highway connecting Tulas/I-44 to I-35 North.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/average-daily-traffic/2021/Cimarron%20ADT%202021.pdf