UK Roads Thread

[vdeane]

I know what you mean, but I wouldn't necessarily describe it as fear. Compared to the UK (and what I understand of other countries internationally as well), it seems more like a lack of adaptability. US drivers seem very limited in their ability to adapt to different situations and in fact often seem to take offense to others adapting. And like you mentioned, there even seems to be a tendency to panic when anything doesn't go exactly as expected which probably stems from our unique combo of higher road standards (creating higher expectations) and less driver training.

I mean, it sure feels like fear when people hesitate all the time when driving.  It's to the point where I am that merging onto an expressway at 40 mph is the norm.

[Rothman]

I know what you mean, but I wouldn't necessarily describe it as fear. Compared to the UK (and what I understand of other countries internationally as well), it seems more like a lack of adaptability. US drivers seem very limited in their ability to adapt to different situations and in fact often seem to take offense to others adapting. And like you mentioned, there even seems to be a tendency to panic when anything doesn't go exactly as expected which probably stems from our unique combo of higher road standards (creating higher expectations) and less driver training.

I mean, it sure feels like fear when people hesitate all the time when driving.  It's to the point where I am that merging onto an expressway at 40 mph is the norm.

Man, someone was trying to merge from I-80 EB to I-81 NB in front of me at around that speed yesterday night.  Then, they weren't watching when they were merging over.

I'd imagine the UK is less car-centric than the US, though?  Wonder if that cuts down the number of people behind the wheel that would rather not be there.

[kphoger]

US drivers seem very limited in their ability to adapt to different situations and in fact often seem to take offense to others adapting.

This is maybe the biggest difference in driving behavior that I've noticed between the USA and Mexico too.  Drivers can do some pretty boneheaded and/or reckless stuff on the road down there, but nobody seems to get offended the way American drivers do at comparatively minor things.

[webny99]

US drivers seem very limited in their ability to adapt to different situations and in fact often seem to take offense to others adapting.

This is maybe the biggest difference in driving behavior that I've noticed between the USA and Mexico too.  Drivers can do some pretty boneheaded and/or reckless stuff on the road down there, but nobody seems to get offended the way American drivers do at comparatively minor things.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like every negative interaction I've ever been involved in while driving stems from either me reacting to another driver's lack of adaptability or another driver taking offense to my adaptability. I really can't think of any exceptions, where I've been the less adaptable driver.

And yet... I'd probably still be considered highly inflexible in UK/Europe/Mexico.

[english si]

Traffic signals have a short amber phase before turning green so you can already be accelerating by the time it turns green. This basically validates what I already often do.

It's Red+Amber. Amber on its own is just before it turns red.

Passing zone rules are confusing. A surprising amount of two lane roads have legal passing zones, even ones with frequent curves that would be double yellow solid in the US.

We have the assumption that legal ≠ safe and let drivers use their own judgement. See also our speed limits (though many councils have sought to undermine that).

In the London area, an awesome public transit network is countered by a lack of urban highways, so it's still very congested on balance.

Smeed's Law (from 1949) states that average road vehicle speeds in Central London will always be roughly 9mph - he had considerable data from the past that showed that it had stayed the same as car usage rose and other uses (including horse-drawn carriages) fell, and all the data since has shown the same - whether they do road construction (eg the late 50s/early 60s widening of the Euston Road, conversion of part of the Kingsway tram subway into the Aldwych tunnel to bypass the large gyratory they were adding, those large one-way systems designed to boost capacity and ease flows, etc) or road diets (eg the replacement of one carriageway of The Embankment with improved active travel, the removal of cars from Oxford Street, removing the one-way systems and gyratories, pedestrianisation of certain roads (or at least the cul-de-sacing of them for cars), etc) it's stayed true.

Similar is true for further out - congestion is self-regulating and London is over-saturated with demand.

Gaps in the motorway network. Outside the London area, east-west connectivity is particularly lacking.

It's not really any better or worse in the London area than the rest of the country. It's also a bit better nationwide if you consider the high quality dual carriageways like the A14, A55 or A66. It also doesn't help that the northern half of England is split in two by a mountain range.

Lack of route number shields on signage – most signs are text-only.

And the road numbers are generally among that text, separate (even a different font on motorways). Sure we don't use shields (though we may have patches of a different colour for a road number on signs), but we sign road numbers the vast majority of the time.

The route hierarchy is also more complex than simple tiered system in the US.

There's a simple tier system in the US?

And in the UK we use different colour direction signs for the more important roads (blue for motorways, green for primary), rather than everything being green like the US.

No yellow lane separators for two-way traffic!? Lane separators are white for both one way and two way roads – and they're often dashed (meaning passing is allowed) so you basically just have to know if there's oncoming traffic or not. I had never thought about it before, but it was a surprising adjustment - confusing at best and dangerous at worst.

They are different dashes for direction separation and lane separation and there's usually lots of clues (signs, behaviour of other vehicles, typically that there's another carriageway not very far away...) beyond that as to whether you are on a one-way carriageway/road or a two-way one. Be aware, and be adaptable - 'tis the British way of driving.

Bone up on the rules before driving in a foreign land (be aware). Don't go panicking as there's no yellow lines in the middle of the road in a country that only uses them kerbside to denote parking restrictions (be adaptable). . But if in doubt, just don't move over into the right-hand lane and you will be fine.

[ElishaGOtis]

We have the assumption that legal ≠ safe and let drivers use their own judgement. See also our speed limits (though many councils have sought to undermine that).

Motorways have entered the chat.

[vdeane]

There's a simple tier system in the US?

I assume he means interstate -> US route -> state route -> county route -> local.

[Rothman]

Smee?

[Scott5114]

And in the UK we use different colour direction signs for the more important roads (blue for motorways, green for primary), rather than everything being green like the US.

Feels like you'd have to be pretty daft to actually need the differently-coloured signs to tell whether you're on a motorway or not (are the ramps and bridges and chopsticks signs not enough of a clue?). I'm not one to be rah-rah-America, but colouring signs according to function rather than route number seems quite a bit more, well... functional.

[freebrickproductions]

And in the UK we use different colour direction signs for the more important roads (blue for motorways, green for primary), rather than everything being green like the US.

Feels like you'd have to be pretty daft to actually need the differently-coloured signs to tell whether you're on a motorway or not (are the ramps and bridges and chopsticks signs not enough of a clue?). I'm not one to be rah-rah-America, but colouring signs according to function rather than route number seems quite a bit more, well... functional.

To be fair, I imagine it's a result of the UK using alphanumeric designations for highway numbers (i.e. M1, A3, B775, etc.) and not using shields. I seem to recall most of Europe also color-codes their signage based on if you're on a freeway or not, and most of Europe is also like the UK in that their highways are designated with alphanumeric numbers as well.

I'd imagine a number of Europeans used to such a system probably think it's strange that we don't color-code our highway signage based on route type when they first encounter it (whether in person or online).

[BrynM65]

And in the UK we use different colour direction signs for the more important roads (blue for motorways, green for primary), rather than everything being green like the US.

Feels like you'd have to be pretty daft to actually need the differently-coloured signs to tell whether you're on a motorway or not (are the ramps and bridges and chopsticks signs not enough of a clue?). I'm not one to be rah-rah-America, but colouring signs according to function rather than route number seems quite a bit more, well... functional.

British motorway signs were a result of a massive panic by the government in the late 1950s; our original direction signage system was absolutely useless for roads with high speeds and we didn't know what to do about that. We actually took inspiration from Germany and California - the Anderson Committee specifically criticised the all black guide signs in CA as "too funereal", so they opted for blue because it was working well in Germany, which in 1958 was the only European state with anything resembling a proper controlled access network. Had we been a few years later in building motorways I strongly imagine we'd have been using FHWA and green signs on motorways.

The Anderson Committee also hated the motorway symbol - that's how we ended up with that weird circular thing on the Preston Bypass (which also flopped because what the heck did it mean?) and why we relied on the large worded "NO" signs well until the mid-1970s.

I definitely don't want to spark a war here, but the US guide sign system is fairly reliable and consistent on controlled access roads, but the second you're off that it is... not great. However, the UK guide sign system has become overly complicated and thrives off hyper-localism (take the M25 as a fantastic example; the control destinations are either the airports or Watford. The rest of the UK? Nah, we don't need that on signs.

I don't think solitary sign colours are a problem - the Netherlands and Belgium manage with all blue signs (although Belgium does use green for approach signage entering freeways from surface roads for distinction).

The "tier" system in the UK has also been messed up somewhat with the introduction of primary routes in the 1960s, but the rot set in when "trunk routes" were created in 1936 - instead of providing a new route classification we simply strung together existing A roads. For example, the Preston to Halifax trunk road consisted of the A59, A677, A6119, A679, and then A646. Maps, but not signs, would show these as A646(T) for example. Trunk routes, of course, were merely a funding mechanism and they never had a minimum standard unlike federally funded interstates (let's ignore the rule breaking here for the sake of simplicity).

For what it's worth, only Norway appears to bother with a yellow centre line to divide opposing traffic flows in Europe. The rest of the continent makes do with different length dashed depending on two-way or one-way or solid lines for no passing.

Car-dependency is an issue in the UK though; away from London many places want that All American Car Owning Democracy, but nobody wants the All American Highways that come with that. The obvious dichotomy of a Victorian downtown and parking right outside of the shop is lost on British people, they don't want to walk anywhere but they want walkable cities. If you think urbanist arguments Stateside are hard work, try being a transport planner here

[Scott5114]

I definitely don't want to spark a war here, but the US guide sign system is fairly reliable and consistent on controlled access roads, but the second you're off that it is... not great.

I'm curious why you say that. I will grant that perhaps some of the destinations chosen are less useful than others, which is mostly because each state is free to come up with its own method of choosing these. (AASHTO only coordinates control cities on Interstate highways.) Some states do this in an ad-hoc manner, while Kansas has a flowchart for doing so which takes settlement size, distance, and political stature (i.e. is it a county seat) into account.

Other than that I'm not entirely sure what weaknesses the US directional sign system has. It's all done in a fairly standard manner (well, outside of New Mexico, but the "welcome to New Mexico" signs are bright yellow so you shouldn't end up there without knowing) so once you've been through a few junctions parsing the information presented should become easy. I suppose you could fault it for emphasizing route numbers above destinations, but to me that is a cultural difference that the signs follow—Americans simply tend to navigate by route number rather than by waypoint. I suspect this tendency developed due to the fact that in a large part of the country for a very long time non-numbered roads simply weren't guaranteed to be suited for all-weather travel. (And in some very specific parts of the country they're still not—vast swaths of the Navajo lands remain inaccessible after rain.) This meant it was not enough to point out a road which goes to Elk City—you specifically wanted to know the road was US-66 because that is the road which the state put all of the resources into keeping in usable condition.