Madison Area

[mgk920]

Again, if those stupid lakes weren't in the way . . .

Basically, how much WisDOT money do you want to spend on it?  With enough money, one could build a very useful 'local/express' lane setup on the Beltline.  But will the rest of the state go for it?

Do they get veto power or something? Does the rest of the state get to "go for" I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere? I-94 expansion in Milwaukee?

The dollars should go where they are needed the most.

Those places where they are 'needed the most' also tend to be the places where the locals want them the least.  Look at all of the 'unbuilts' in metro Milwaukee, how long it took to add the badly needed lanes to the I-94 east-west freeway in Milwaukee and the direct free-flow ramps at the Beltline-Verona Rd interchange in Madison.  The ongoing I-41 six and eight lane upgrades (among many other projects throughout the NE part of the state) were all WANTED by the locals.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

Again, if those stupid lakes weren't in the way . . .

Basically, how much WisDOT money do you want to spend on it?  With enough money, one could build a very useful 'local/express' lane setup on the Beltline.  But will the rest of the state go for it?

Do they get veto power or something? Does the rest of the state get to "go for" I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere? I-94 expansion in Milwaukee?

The dollars should go where they are needed the most.

Those places where they are 'needed the most' also tend to be the places where the locals want them the least.  Look at all of the 'unbuilts' in metro Milwaukee, how long it took to add the badly needed lanes to the I-94 east-west freeway in Milwaukee and the direct free-flow ramps at the Beltline-Verona Rd interchange in Madison.  The ongoing I-41 six and eight lane upgrades (among many other projects throughout the NE part of the state) were all WANTED by the locals.

So your question should have been, will the locals go for it?

[The Ghostbuster]

As a nearly lifelong resident of Madison, I strongly support all of the projects mentioned above.

[SSOWorld]

As a nearly lifelong resident of Madison, I strongly support all of the projects mentioned above.

As a lifelong resident not of Madison, I strongly support all of the projects mentioned above.

Particularly if they finally put free-flow from the beltline to Verona road

There is just WAAAAYYYYY too much business development along the beltline to permit expansions without shrinking lanes and shoulders.

[The Ghostbuster]

There is a virtual PIM for the Beltline PEL Study tomorrow at 5:30pm: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/public.aspx.

[The Ghostbuster]

There is a potential construction start date for the Stoughton Road North Study: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51-corridor/northstudy.aspx. I still wish they had gone with the jug-handle alternative at East Washington Ave.

[The Ghostbuster]

US 51 could be moved near the airport due to runway expansion: https://madison.com/news/traffic/article_c6b53ca0-eaef-426e-8342-a6bad38218d7.html.

[on_wisconsin]

US 51 could be moved near the airport due to runway expansion: https://madison.com/news/traffic/article_c6b53ca0-eaef-426e-8342-a6bad38218d7.html.

From the Airport Draft NCP from last October... Layouts start at pg 113 (already linked): https://www.msnairport.com/documents/pdf/MSN-P150-Draft-NCP-Amendment-10242025-final.pdf#page=113

Alt 2 is likely the most questionable safety wise due to extending the Rwy 3 end closer to taxiway A which would likely introduce new restrictions on use of the taxiway when in mixed flow ops. Never mind the probable removal of various buildings on the extended Rwy 3 approach after the FAA and USAF have their final say.
TLDR: Simply extending the NE (21) end of the runway and building a tunnel for US 51 will almost certainly be a lot more straightforward to get shovels moving. IMHO

[mgk920]

US 51 could be moved near the airport due to runway expansion: https://madison.com/news/traffic/article_c6b53ca0-eaef-426e-8342-a6bad38218d7.html.

From the Airport Draft NCP from last October... Layouts start at pg 113 (already linked): https://www.msnairport.com/documents/pdf/MSN-P150-Draft-NCP-Amendment-10242025-final.pdf#page=113

Alt 2 is likely the most questionable safety wise due to extending the Rwy 3 end closer to taxiway A which would likely introduce new restrictions on use of the taxiway when in mixed flow ops. Never mind the probable removal of various buildings on the extended Rwy 3 approach after the FAA and USAF have their final say.
TLDR: Simply extending the NE (21) end of the runway and building a tunnel for US 51 will almost certainly be a lot more straightforward to get shovels moving. IMHO

Like with Howell Ave (WI 38) under the east-west runway at MKE.

Mike

[peterj920]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

[Molandfreak]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

[The Ghostbuster]

It looks like it is going to happen. The new designation I'd choose for East Washington Ave. is STH 251, although reusing the STH 351 designation is also a possibility.

[SEWIGuy]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

Interesting that East Washington will stay a state highway. I think that is a reasonable solution honestly. Good on the City and WIDOT for working together on this.

[The Ghostbuster]

I assume the new state highway designation would go from the Interstate 39/90/94 interchange to the intersection of E. Washington Ave. and Blair St.

[WISFreeways]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

1. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. How about spending that $37 million for helping improve US 51 instead?

[SEWIGuy]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

1. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. How about spending that $37 million for helping improve US 51 instead?

1. But from Madison's perspective it is broke. They don't want a state highway snaking around the city streets that people don't use as a through route, and want to downgrade Park Street in the process. Furthermore, relocating US-151 to the interstates and Beltline makes sense navigation wise.

2. Stoughton Road is an active WIDOT project so both will get done.

[SEWIGuy]

I assume the new state highway designation would go from the Interstate 39/90/94 interchange to the intersection of E. Washington Ave. and Blair St.

I would guess.

[peterj920]

The reason for the final $37 million payment is because Madison's connecting highway payments will be reduced since the segment of US 151 from The Beltline to E Washington/Blair won't be eligible for aid and WISDOT can help with reconstruction one final time. Last year Madison received $800,000 from WISDOT and that will drop with the future x51 and Wis 113 as the only connecting highways in Madison which are WISDOT highways that the city maintains.

Here's a spreadsheet showing how much each city gets in aid.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/doing-bus/local-gov/astnce-pgms/highway/cha-final25.pdf

[dvferyance]

Tonight the Madison City Council will vote on the proposal to reroute US 151 onto I-39/90 and US 12/18. Madison would receive $37 million from WISDOT and E. Washington Ace would be a new X51 highway. Signs would go up in late 2027-early 2028.

https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-moves-closer-to-taking-control-of-major-roads-from-wisdot/article_bdf1f6ac-3506-40f0-b1c3-669f32649b31.html

1. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. How about spending that $37 million for helping improve US 51 instead?

1. But from Madison's perspective it is broke. They don't want a state highway snaking around the city streets that people don't use as a through route, and want to downgrade Park Street in the process. Furthermore, relocating US-151 to the interstates and Beltline makes sense navigation wise.

2. Stoughton Road is an active WIDOT project so both will get done.

Navigation wise yes but there is already so much duplexing as is in the area. Creating more is just more headaches with signs.

[JREwing78]

Sounds like a win-win to me. I formerly lived just off Park St; the routing of US-151 through downtown Madison never made sense. Pretending Park St was anything other than a city street was folly.

It might've made more sense when Madison was far smaller and needed the state revenue to maintain those streets, but as explosively as the city has grown, they can certainly take on a few miles of city street. 

If adding US-151 signs to the existing US-12/18, I-39/90, and I-39/90/94 multiplexes breaks your brain, it clearly sucks to be you. Anyone following US-151 not intending to stop in Madison was using this path anyway. They'll be able to blindly follow the US-151 markers and be assured they won't end up in downtown Madison.

[SEWIGuy]

Yeah, what's the alternative to posting a large multiplex? There really isn't even an easy way to do what Indiana does with the US highways routed along the Indianapolis bypass.

[WISFreeways]

How about using the $37 million to help improve the westbound Exit 258 (Verona Rd.) off-ramp? That gets backed up frequently and it clearly needs some combination of traffic signal improvement, lane widening, and the like.  The Seminole Highway bridge will probably have to be replaced, though, and there is the Arboretum... so maybe it's unclear.

[The Ghostbuster]

Or maybe implement Stage 3 of the Verona Rd. project that was previously planned.

[dvferyance]

Sounds like a win-win to me. I formerly lived just off Park St; the routing of US-151 through downtown Madison never made sense. Pretending Park St was anything other than a city street was folly.

It might've made more sense when Madison was far smaller and needed the state revenue to maintain those streets, but as explosively as the city has grown, they can certainly take on a few miles of city street.

If adding US-151 signs to the existing US-12/18, I-39/90, and I-39/90/94 multiplexes breaks your brain, it clearly sucks to be you. Anyone following US-151 not intending to stop in Madison was using this path anyway. They'll be able to blindly follow the US-151 markers and be assured they won't end up in downtown Madison.

I think that all through traffic has figured out not to follow 151 through Madison. I should also mention Colorado usually does not sign US highway duplexes with Interstates because there are so many of them there.

[Molandfreak]

Sounds like a win-win to me. I formerly lived just off Park St; the routing of US-151 through downtown Madison never made sense. Pretending Park St was anything other than a city street was folly.

It might've made more sense when Madison was far smaller and needed the state revenue to maintain those streets, but as explosively as the city has grown, they can certainly take on a few miles of city street.

If adding US-151 signs to the existing US-12/18, I-39/90, and I-39/90/94 multiplexes breaks your brain, it clearly sucks to be you. Anyone following US-151 not intending to stop in Madison was using this path anyway. They'll be able to blindly follow the US-151 markers and be assured they won't end up in downtown Madison.

I think that all through traffic has figured out not to follow 151 through Madison. I should also mention Colorado usually does not sign US highway duplexes with Interstates because there are so many of them there.

All is quite a lofty assertion.

The purpose of signing a highway is to create a helpful guide to travellers unfamiliar with the area. US 151 is otherwise consistent in quality outside of Madison. If surface streets within town need to be in the state highway system, they can be a business loop or some other highway.

Keeping US 151 on surface streets is not helpful to the folks who still depend on highway signage. Just use GPS is a particularly dumb argument when over half the country can't afford a $400 emergency, and thus are presumably on a limited data plan on their phones.