Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[The Ghostbuster]

Let us know when more Business 81 signs are put up.

[webny99]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

[roadman65]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

A friend of mine says I-481 should be applied to I-81from Downtown to the current I-81 and I-481 exchange and I-181 for what will be the south spur.

[Rothman]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

NC and CA shake their heads at you.

[Rothman]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

A friend of mine says I-481 should be applied to I-81from Downtown to the current I-81 and I-481 exchange and I-181 for what will be the south spur.

A little late to the party on that idea.  I believe something like it was suggested...but for whatever reason, was not approved.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[vdeane]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

A friend of mine says I-481 should be applied to I-81from Downtown to the current I-81 and I-481 exchange and I-181 for what will be the south spur.

I keep seeing roadgeeks saying that the freeway part of the southern business loop should have an interstate number and just don't see why.  Not only is it a rather short spur, it does not and most definitely won't meet interstate standards.

If I were God and could set numbering according to my whims, it would be NY 681 from exit 81 to I-690 and I-681 from I-690 to exit 96.  Although FHWA doesn't like partial interchanges, especially interstate/interstate ones, so with two movements missing, an interstate for even the remaining freeway might never have been in the cards from the moment NYSDOT decided to not build those movements.

(personal opinion)

[74/171FAN]

I was personally thinking just replace current I-81 with an extended NY 481 (being unsigned I-481 north of I-690 to the current north I-81/I-481 interchange).

[webny99]

Regardless of how the traffic situation south of downtown plays out, I am still not looking forward to existing I-81 being signed as BL 81 north of downtown (and especially north of the Thruway). I just can't wrap my head around the BL-as-a-freeway dynamic.

NC and CA shake their heads at you.

And I shake my head at them.

[pderocco]

I keep seeing roadgeeks saying that the freeway part of the southern business loop should have an interstate number and just don't see why.  Not only is it a rather short spur, it does not and most definitely won't meet interstate standards.

I don't think any of I-81 through the city meets interstate standards, but it's been grandfathered in. Would swapping the I-81 and I-481 designations un-grandfather it?

I think they should leave the route numbers alone. If the idea is to nudge drivers to bypass the city via the eastern beltway, just put POINTS NORTH/SOUTH on the BGSes, or something like that. Most people, especially truckers, are perfectly capable of choosing a lower traffic route even if the number is different for 15 miles.

[Jim]

In my opinion, there are lots of reasonable ways to renumber, but none of them were chosen.

[vdeane]

I keep seeing roadgeeks saying that the freeway part of the southern business loop should have an interstate number and just don't see why.  Not only is it a rather short spur, it does not and most definitely won't meet interstate standards.

I don't think any of I-81 through the city meets interstate standards, but it's been grandfathered in. Would swapping the I-81 and I-481 designations un-grandfather it?

I think they should leave the route numbers alone. If the idea is to nudge drivers to bypass the city via the eastern beltway, just put POINTS NORTH/SOUTH on the BGSes, or something like that. Most people, especially truckers, are perfectly capable of choosing a lower traffic route even if the number is different for 15 miles.

Keep in mind that the viaduct is being removed.  There will not be a continuous north-south freeway there anymore (or are you proposing to have a gap in I-81?).  The first link in the text you quoted is to a recent image showing the single-lane condition on future BL 81 north through the southern interchange, which didn't exist prior to the start of the I-81 viaduct removal project.  The second shows the curves approaching the roundabout that will be at the northern end of the southern freeway section.  This isn't swapping numbers on a section of freeway on grandfathered older standards - this is new construction that does not meet interstate standards.

[Rothman]

Slowly turning green.

[The Ghostbuster]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

[Max Rockatansky]

Slowly turning green.

Minty fresh placards.

[pderocco]

I keep seeing roadgeeks saying that the freeway part of the southern business loop should have an interstate number and just don't see why.  Not only is it a rather short spur, it does not and most definitely won't meet interstate standards.

I don't think any of I-81 through the city meets interstate standards, but it's been grandfathered in. Would swapping the I-81 and I-481 designations un-grandfather it?

I think they should leave the route numbers alone. If the idea is to nudge drivers to bypass the city via the eastern beltway, just put POINTS NORTH/SOUTH on the BGSes, or something like that. Most people, especially truckers, are perfectly capable of choosing a lower traffic route even if the number is different for 15 miles.

Keep in mind that the viaduct is being removed.  There will not be a continuous north-south freeway there anymore (or are you proposing to have a gap in I-81?).  The first link in the text you quoted is to a recent image showing the single-lane condition on future BL 81 north through the southern interchange, which didn't exist prior to the start of the I-81 viaduct removal project.  The second shows the curves approaching the roundabout that will be at the northern end of the southern freeway section.  This isn't swapping numbers on a section of freeway on grandfathered older standards - this is new construction that does not meet interstate standards.

Oh, my bad. I didn't develop any interest in this project until I drove through it recently, and I didn't wade through the rest of this long thread. And WebNY99's #2027 comment seemed to imply that this would be sort of like I-80BL through Sacramento.

[webny99]

Keep in mind that the viaduct is being removed.  There will not be a continuous north-south freeway there anymore (or are you proposing to have a gap in I-81?).  The first link in the text you quoted is to a recent image showing the single-lane condition on future BL 81 north through the southern interchange, which didn't exist prior to the start of the I-81 viaduct removal project.  The second shows the curves approaching the roundabout that will be at the northern end of the southern freeway section.  This isn't swapping numbers on a section of freeway on grandfathered older standards - this is new construction that does not meet interstate standards.

Oh, my bad. I didn't develop any interest in this project until I drove through it recently, and I didn't wade through the rest of this long thread. And WebNY99's #2027 comment seemed to imply that this would be sort of like I-80BL through Sacramento.

Yes, to be clear... my comment was focused on the part north of downtown Syracuse that will remain full freeway. South of downtown will not be close to Interstate standards.

[Molandfreak]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

Why would they?

[roadman65]

I-481 would be fine north of Downtown as it would end at two interstates.   Through Downtown give it NY 181 ( if it hasn't been taken) and route that to the south end.

[Molandfreak]

I-481 would be fine north of Downtown as it would end at two interstates.   Through Downtown give it NY 181 ( if it hasn't been taken) and route that to the south end.

And I-481 swapping places will be less confusing than a green 81?

[vdeane]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

Why would they?

People in Upstate NY don't tend to refer to routes with additional qualifiers - directions usually sound something like "Take the Thruway to 81" (which one?).  Even around the Capital District, where the word "interstate" is in common usage (it isn't further west), you'll still hear people talk about "Interstate 787" in Cohoes.

[kalvado]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

Why would they?

People in Upstate NY don't tend to refer to routes with additional qualifiers - directions usually sound something like "Take the Thruway to 81" (which one?).  Even around the Capital District, where the word "interstate" is in common usage (it isn't further west), you'll still hear people talk about "Interstate 787" in Cohoes.

"Old 81" would match "alt 7" pretty well

[Molandfreak]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

Why would they?

People in Upstate NY don't tend to refer to routes with additional qualifiers - directions usually sound something like "Take the Thruway to 81" (which one?).  Even around the Capital District, where the word "interstate" is in common usage (it isn't further west), you'll still hear people talk about "Interstate 787" in Cohoes.

What about 62 and Business 62 in Niagara Falls? At least interstate business loops have a different design and don't just stick a "business" placard over a highway shield that is otherwise unchanged.

[cl94]

Let's hope people don't confuse the rerouted Interstate 81 with Business 81, and vice versa.

Why would they?

People in Upstate NY don't tend to refer to routes with additional qualifiers - directions usually sound something like "Take the Thruway to 81" (which one?).  Even around the Capital District, where the word "interstate" is in common usage (it isn't further west), you'll still hear people talk about "Interstate 787" in Cohoes.

"Old 81" would match "alt 7" pretty well

"Alternate 7": the route that never existed beyond a planning designation that still won't die 40+ years later.

[vdeane]

I would consider "alternate 7" a relic of the fact that the NY 7 freeway is really its own thing; it has a trumpet interchange with the Northway and to continue west involves taking a service road to exit 6 (and continuing east onto it requires getting on the I-87 mainline).  This was, of course, originally supposed to be part of I-88.  I have seen people confused by it, getting in the exit only lane for exit 6 only to merge back when they realize they need exit 7 (and in times that aren't congested, so not to bypass a line of stopped cars) or getting off at exit 6 at the last minute because the probably thought "NY 7 = 'I want exit 7'" only to realize that to go the other way they need exit 6 (even in congested times, so they sit in the line and then cut over from nearly a stop at the last second).

What about 62 and Business 62 in Niagara Falls? At least interstate business loops have a different design and don't just stick a "business" placard over a highway shield that is otherwise unchanged.

I imagine it's just called Pine Avenue.  People don't usually use route numbers for surface roads in cities in NYS (and even many suburban routes are better known by their names too).  It's also worth noting that Business US 62 is unusual for NYS; it's the only officially recognized banner route by NYSDOT at this time (the various truck routes being local/regional designations not in any inventory), and was designated at the insistence of Niagara Falls for some reason.

[Mr. Matté]

"Old 81" would match "alt 7" pretty well

"Alternate 7": the route that never existed beyond a planning designation that still won't die 40+ years later.

The 68-year-old Blue Route says "Hi (and I'm backed up with traffic due to my restriction on being four lanes)."