Highways 5 and 65 could become Interstate 435 in the Des Moines metro

[stevashe]

Why are there three I-235s within a day's drive of each other, but only one I-635 anywhere and no I-835 at all?

For whatever reason, DOTs/FHWA/AASTHO/Whoever comes up with route numbers tend to use the lowest applicable prefix for 3di's. There are certainly exceptions, but that's why there are a ton more 1xx and 2xx interstates out there than 8xx and especially 9xx.

I do agree it would be better to use unique numbers where possible, but I don't think it's that big of a deal to duplicate 3di numbers.

[silverback1065]

Why are there three I-235s within a day's drive of each other, but only one I-635 anywhere and no I-835 at all?

For whatever reason, DOTs/FHWA/AASTHO/Whoever comes up with route numbers tend to use the lowest applicable prefix for 3di's. There are certainly exceptions, but that's why there are a ton more 1xx and 2xx interstates out there than 8xx and especially 9xx.

I do agree it would be better to use unique numbers where possible, but I don't think it's that big of a deal to duplicate 3di numbers.

it's logical start with the lowest available number and move up from there.

[SEWIGuy]

What am I missing? Where in Iowa is another 435? Is it because of 435 in the Kansas City metro? How would that be confusing?

It would be no more confusing than renumbering, say, US-6 to be a second US-70 instead.

But why reuse a number at all when there is another unused number that also fits the pattern?

Why are there three I-235s within a day's drive of each other, but only one I-635 anywhere and no I-835 at all?

Basically, I don't like duplicate route numbers of the same class.  And I'd rather break the grid than duplicate.

I don't think the Iowa DOT uses the "does kphoger like this number" test when determining these things.

[kphoger]

I don't think the Iowa DOT uses the "does kphoger like this number" test when determining these things.

I had begun to suspect as much.

[rte66man]

What am I missing? Where in Iowa is another 435? Is it because of 435 in the Kansas City metro? How would that be confusing?

It would be no more confusing than renumbering, say, US-6 to be a second US-70 instead.

But why reuse a number at all when there is another unused number that also fits the pattern?

Why are there three I-235s within a day's drive of each other, but only one I-635 anywhere and no I-835 at all?

Basically, I don't like duplicate route numbers of the same class.  And I'd rather break the grid than duplicate.

There are 2 635's; one in Dallas and the other in the KC metro.

[kphoger]

There are 2 635's; one in Dallas and the other in the KC metro.

Man, I always forget the one in Texas.

[Scott5114]

The other thing is it's likely that Kansas City will be signed as the control city for southbound/westbound I-435 in Iowa.

Geez, I didn't even realize that. While I would hope most people would figure out what was going on, that would still be pretty bonkers.

There would be the potential for this to happen with I-235 and Oklahoma City if not for KDOT's refusal to sign control cities when the highway does not actually reach that city (so I-235 in Kansas has no control cities at all).

it's logical start with the lowest available number and move up from there.

It's logical from the DOT perspective. But does Aunt Erma from Duluth know that Interstate route numbers can be duplicated in different states?

[SEWIGuy]

The other thing is it's likely that Kansas City will be signed as the control city for southbound/westbound I-435 in Iowa.

Geez, I didn't even realize that. While I would hope most people would figure out what was going on, that would still be pretty bonkers.

There would be the potential for this to happen with I-235 and Oklahoma City if not for KDOT's refusal to sign control cities when the highway does not actually reach that city (so I-235 in Kansas has no control cities at all).

it's logical start with the lowest available number and move up from there.

It's logical from the DOT perspective. But does Aunt Erma from Duluth know that Interstate route numbers can be duplicated in different states?

I doubt Aunt Emma would get confused about this.

[Scott5114]

The other thing is it's likely that Kansas City will be signed as the control city for southbound/westbound I-435 in Iowa.

Geez, I didn't even realize that. While I would hope most people would figure out what was going on, that would still be pretty bonkers.

There would be the potential for this to happen with I-235 and Oklahoma City if not for KDOT's refusal to sign control cities when the highway does not actually reach that city (so I-235 in Kansas has no control cities at all).

it's logical start with the lowest available number and move up from there.

It's logical from the DOT perspective. But does Aunt Erma from Duluth know that Interstate route numbers can be duplicated in different states?

I doubt Aunt Emma would get confused about this.

Maybe she wouldn't, but Aunt Erma is quite a bit slower in her old age than her sister is.

[stevashe]

Why are there three I-235s within a day's drive of each other, but only one I-635 anywhere and no I-835 at all?

For whatever reason, DOTs/FHWA/AASTHO/Whoever comes up with route numbers tend to use the lowest applicable prefix for 3di's. There are certainly exceptions, but that's why there are a ton more 1xx and 2xx interstates out there than 8xx and especially 9xx.

I do agree it would be better to use unique numbers where possible, but I don't think it's that big of a deal to duplicate 3di numbers.

it's logical start with the lowest available number and move up from there.

That's true at the state level if you ignore everything else. But on a national scale, it would make a lot more sense to spread the designations around to avoid duplication instead of having eight I-295s and only one I-895.

[kphoger]

The other thing is it's likely that Kansas City will be signed as the control city for southbound/westbound I-435 in Iowa.

Geez, I didn't even realize that. While I would hope most people would figure out what was going on, that would still be pretty bonkers.

Then again...  the only time I've personally used the IA-5 & US-65 route was when I was heading between Kansas City (Wichita) and Chicago (southwest Michigan), so it makes sense to me.

It's logical from the DOT perspective. But does Aunt Erma from Duluth know that Interstate route numbers can be duplicated in different states?

I doubt Aunt Emma would get confused about this.

I've known a driver or two who ended up in the wrong state before realizing they'd made a wrong turn somewhere.

If I've got in-laws coming down from Minnesota who have never driven this way before, and if I tell them to take I-35 to I-435 (Kansas City) as part of their driving route, then I think it's somewhat likely that they'll turn at the first I-435 they come to—even if it's in West Des Moines.  You know you're supposed to turn at I-435, you see signs for I-435... you turn.

[Rothman]

Heh.  Had a brother-in-law that turned on I-695 in Baltimore instead of I-495 in DC since they had "Beltway" on the signage.

My brother and sister got lost getting to a family reunion in the Allentown, PA area and ended up in NJ...

[SEWIGuy]

The other thing is it's likely that Kansas City will be signed as the control city for southbound/westbound I-435 in Iowa.

Geez, I didn't even realize that. While I would hope most people would figure out what was going on, that would still be pretty bonkers.

Then again...  the only time I've personally used the IA-5 & US-65 route was when I was heading between Kansas City (Wichita) and Chicago (southwest Michigan), so it makes sense to me.

It's logical from the DOT perspective. But does Aunt Erma from Duluth know that Interstate route numbers can be duplicated in different states?

I doubt Aunt Emma would get confused about this.

I've known a driver or two who ended up in the wrong state before realizing they'd made a wrong turn somewhere.

If I've got in-laws coming down from Minnesota who have never driven this way before, and if I tell them to take I-35 to I-435 (Kansas City) as part of their driving route, then I think it's somewhat likely that they'll turn at the first I-435 they come to—even if it's in West Des Moines.  You know you're supposed to turn at I-435, you see signs for I-435... you turn.

Don't get me wrong, I think a different number would be better, but if Aunt Emma can't figure out she's near Des Moines and not Kansas City, she probably shouldn't be driving from Duluth. At least without a GPS or phone.

[kphoger]

Don't get me wrong, I think a different number would be better, but if Aunt Emma can't figure out she's near Des Moines and not Kansas City, she probably shouldn't be driving from Duluth. At least without a GPS or phone.

Trust me, Aunt Emma is better off driving without fiddling with her sat-nav device at 65 mph.

[silverback1065]

this is an overblown concern. the vast majority of traffic is local and will not get confused. most people would stay on 35 through town regardless as it is less numbers to remember. plus the amount of people using gps on their phones to navigate makes this concern irrelevant.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I do think it's prudent to make the corridor one number rather than splitting it awkwardly between US 65 and IA 5, whether that's I-x35 or just giving it an IA 435 designation,

[kphoger]

this is an overblown concern. the vast majority of traffic is local and will not get confused. most people would stay on 35 through town regardless as it is less numbers to remember. plus the amount of people using gps on their phones to navigate makes this concern irrelevant.

Would you be fine, then, with every city along an Interstate having the same 3di number(s)?

I-235  —  Dallas
I-235  —  Oklahoma City
I-135  —  Oklahoma City (*eww*)
I-135  —  Wichita–Salina
I-135  —  Emporia–Topeka
I-235  —  Kansas City beltway
I-435  —  Kansas City
I-235  —  Des Moines downtown
I-435  —  Des Moines southeast
I-135  —  Minneapolis
I-135  —  Duluth

[NE2]

Pre-Interstate they would have all been US whatever Bypass. No disambiguation whatsoever, even in the same state.

[kphoger]

Pre-Interstate they would have all been US whatever Bypass. No disambiguation whatsoever, even in the same state.

And we still have zillions of Business US Routes, with in-state duplicates aplenty.

Honestly, I don't like bannered routes either.

[hotdogPi]

Honestly, I don't like bannered routes either.

What is your opinion of e.g. NH 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D; NY 17A, 17B, 17C, 17K, 17M, etc? I actually like it this way.

[kphoger]

Honestly, I don't like bannered routes either.

What is your opinion of e.g. NH 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D; NY 17A, 17B, 17C, 17K, 17M, etc? I actually like it this way.

I don't mind suffixed routes if they are uniquely numbered.  Multiple instances of 11A would bother me, but 11A and 11B would not.  I'd still prefer unique non-suffixed numbers, though.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe they can get a jumpstart on designating the freeway Interstate 435 by renumbering the exits to correspond to Interstate 435's future mileage. Going from 102-to-96, and from 70-to-83 has to be confusing to drivers.

[Scott5114]

Pre-Interstate they would have all been US whatever Bypass. No disambiguation whatsoever, even in the same state.

And we still have zillions of Business US Routes, with in-state duplicates aplenty.

Honestly, I don't like bannered routes either.

I'm not a fan of them myself, though I am beginning to grow a grudging respect for how Nevada uses them.

[silverback1065]

this is an overblown concern. the vast majority of traffic is local and will not get confused. most people would stay on 35 through town regardless as it is less numbers to remember. plus the amount of people using gps on their phones to navigate makes this concern irrelevant.

Would you be fine, then, with every city along an Interstate having the same 3di number(s)?

I-235  —  Dallas
I-235  —  Oklahoma City
I-135  —  Oklahoma City (*eww*)
I-135  —  Wichita–Salina
I-135  —  Emporia–Topeka
I-235  —  Kansas City beltway
I-435  —  Kansas City
I-235  —  Des Moines downtown
I-435  —  Des Moines southeast
I-135  —  Minneapolis
I-135  —  Duluth

I don't think it matters, the amount of local traffic seeing these in a regular commute is almost 0. And with gps it's completely irrelevant. Just an aesthetic issue.

[kphoger]

And with gps it's completely irrelevant. Just an aesthetic issue.

Wow, do you really think every driver out there is navigating by GPS device?