Roadgeek Hot Takes

[formulanone]

Hot Take: not all yellow light / left lane except to pass / left turn situations are the same, put down the broad brush and stop your grumbling

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

I-99 is not that bad, the new North Carolina Interstates on the other hand.

[Scott5114]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

That's certainly not the case in the area where I live, and the main reason for that is because of red-light runners. It's pretty much a given that you're likely to see at least one car per lane go through after the light changes, so if you try to turn on a yellow, you stand a good chance of being in a collision, and if you wait until the red-light runners have gone through, you'll be out in the intersection for too long obstructing traffic on the other street that wants to turn.

Yep, Las Vegas has a lot of red runners, and I've witnessed an accident caused by this very thing at the traffic signal nearest my house. Whenever I'm in that situation, if there's oncoming traffic I will pull out into the intersection, wait until I can visually verify that all three lanes of oncoming traffic are actually coming to a stop (the accident I witnessed had lanes #1 and #2 coming to a stop and a red light runner in the #3 lane), and go at that point, which usually means clearing the intersection on red. If I obstruct the intersection, oh well; I would rather take the tiny risk of Metro writing me a ticket as opposed to the much greater risk of getting clobbered by someone trying to scoot through a red light at 50 mph.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

There is nothing wrong with Clearview.

[kphoger]

There is nothing wrong with Clearview.

The Clearview-hate around here seems to have mellowed out to...

1.  Clearview isn't necessarily worse, but it isn't any better than the old fonts.

2.  In order for Clearview to have any edge at all, the sign panels have to be too big.

3.  Hardly any states seem to be able to do Clearview correctly, so it's better for them to just give up.

[Rothman]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

If I recall correctly, there are some states where it is illegal to go on a yellow light.  I think Minnesota may be one such state.

Huh.  I worked in MN and never had a problem with it.

[kphoger]

Huh.  I worked in MN and never had a problem with it.

I was once in the passenger seat when my wife was pulled over by a cop in Princeton for driving through a yellow light.

Anyway, I went ahead and looked up the law.  Perhaps it was different back then, I don't know, but Minnesota does not currently have a restrictive yellow light law.  However, some other states do.  For example, here is the law in Iowa:

Title VIII — Transportation
Chapter 321 — Motor Vehicles and Law of the Road
§ 321.257 — Official traffic-control signal

2.  Official traffic-control signals consisting of colored lights or colored lighted arrows shall regulate vehicle and pedestrian traffic in the following manner:

b.  A "steady circular yellow" or "steady yellow arrow" light means vehicular traffic is warned that the related green movement is being terminated and vehicular traffic shall no longer proceed into the intersection and shall stop. If the stop cannot be made in safety, a vehicle may be driven cautiously through the intersection. Pedestrian traffic is warned that there is insufficient time to cross the intersection and any pedestrian starting to cross the roadway shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles.

And here is Massachusetts:

720 CMR — Department of Highways
Title 720 CMR 9.00 — Rescinds
§ 9.06 — Operation of Vehicles

(10)  Obedience to Traffic Control Signals.

(c)  Yellow.  While the yellow lens is illuminated, waiting drivers shall not proceed, and any driver approaching the intersection or a marked stop line shall stop at such point unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety; provided, however, that if a green arrow is illuminated at the same time drivers may enter the intersection to make the movement permitted by such arrow.

In other words, in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

[webny99]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

That's certainly not the case in the area where I live, and the main reason for that is because of red-light runners. It's pretty much a given that you're likely to see at least one car per lane go through after the light changes, so if you try to turn on a yellow, you stand a good chance of being in a collision, and if you wait until the red-light runners have gone through, you'll be out in the intersection for too long obstructing traffic on the other street that wants to turn.

Interesting. That does track with the overall more aggressive driving culture along the Bos-Wash corridor, but it's different than what I'm used to.

Around here, the most egregious red light runners are high-speed ones where a driver with a gap in front of them decides to accelerate instead of slow down. 1-2 extra cars sneaking through on the tail end of an existing line is much less common, especially across from a long line waiting to turn left. If anything, most people are fairly diligent about not going straight on red precisely because 1-2 left turners going through on yellow/red is the norm. And even if one or more cars going straight are pushing it, the first left turner commonly still goes through after them.

I was once in the passenger seat when my wife was pulled over by a cop in Princeton for driving through a yellow light.

Anyway, I went ahead and looked up the law.  Perhaps it was different back then, I don't know, but Minnesota does not currently have a restrictive yellow light law.  However, some other states do. 

[Citations snipped]

In other words, in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

However, to my reading, such laws only pertain to entering the intersection. If you're already in the intersection when the light turns yellow, you're not prohibited from completing your turn.

[Rothman]

Huh.  I worked in MN and never had a problem with it.

I was once in the passenger seat when my wife was pulled over by a cop in Princeton for driving through a yellow light.

Anyway, I went ahead and looked up the law.  Perhaps it was different back then, I don't know, but Minnesota does not currently have a restrictive yellow light law.  However, some other states do.  For example, here is the law in Iowa:

Title VIII — Transportation
Chapter 321 — Motor Vehicles and Law of the Road
§ 321.257 — Official traffic-control signal

2.  Official traffic-control signals consisting of colored lights or colored lighted arrows shall regulate vehicle and pedestrian traffic in the following manner:

b.  A "steady circular yellow" or "steady yellow arrow" light means vehicular traffic is warned that the related green movement is being terminated and vehicular traffic shall no longer proceed into the intersection and shall stop. If the stop cannot be made in safety, a vehicle may be driven cautiously through the intersection. Pedestrian traffic is warned that there is insufficient time to cross the intersection and any pedestrian starting to cross the roadway shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles.

And here is Massachusetts:

720 CMR — Department of Highways
Title 720 CMR 9.00 — Rescinds
§ 9.06 — Operation of Vehicles

(10)  Obedience to Traffic Control Signals.

(c)  Yellow.  While the yellow lens is illuminated, waiting drivers shall not proceed, and any driver approaching the intersection or a marked stop line shall stop at such point unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety; provided, however, that if a green arrow is illuminated at the same time drivers may enter the intersection to make the movement permitted by such arrow.

In other words, in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

Heh.  Never got pulled over for going through a yellow in MA over the 12 years plus I lived there.  I think you're emphasizing the bold and de-emphasizing the not-bolded parts of those laws when they should be read with equal weight.

[kphoger]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

However, to my reading, such laws only pertain to entering the intersection. If you're already in the intersection when the light turns yellow, you're not prohibited from completing your turn.

Well, if you were already in the intersection to begin with, then I should hope you'd proceed to complete your left turn when the light changes.  Otherwise, you'd just be hanging out there in the middle of the intersection to get creamed.  Therefore, I assumed you were talking about entering the intersection to make a left turn on yellow.

[webny99]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

However, to my reading, such laws only pertain to entering the intersection. If you're already in the intersection when the light turns yellow, you're not prohibited from completing your turn.

Well, if you were already in the intersection to begin with, then I should hope you'd proceed to complete your left turn when the light changes.  Otherwise, you'd just be hanging out there in the middle of the intersection to get creamed.  Therefore, I assumed you were talking about entering the intersection to make a left turn on yellow.

To clarify, the first car not pulling into the intersection on green - or only pulling partially into it, so they're not committed to going through once it turns yellow - is the root of the problem in most cases.

[NE2]

Hot take: sometimes a route doesn't have an official alignment. You know it goes from point A to point B but if it was never state maintained along the way, and a route was never defined at the street level, there might be no way to determine its exact streets.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

I-80 is more important than I-95.

[hotdogPi]

I-80 is more important than I-95.

I-80 is pretty unimportant.

Think about it: it passes through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa. How many people live in those places? Not very many. It's concurrent through Indiana and Ohio for almost 300 miles, so that's unnecessary, then goes through rural Pennsylvania; again, no one lives there. Then it ends in quite possibly the least important city on the planet, New York.

Case closed.

[vdeane]

I-80 is more important than I-95.

I-80 is pretty unimportant.

Think about it: it passes through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa. How many people live in those places? Not very many. It's concurrent through Indiana and Ohio for almost 300 miles, so that's unnecessary, then goes through rural Pennsylvania; again, no one lives there. Then it ends in quite possibly the least important city on the planet, New York.

Case closed.

Is csw saying that I-80 is a bootleg interstate?

[Scott5114]

There is nothing wrong with Clearview.

The Clearview-hate around here seems to have mellowed out to...

1.  Clearview isn't necessarily worse, but it isn't any better than the old fonts.

2.  In order for Clearview to have any edge at all, the sign panels have to be too big.

3.  Hardly any states seem to be able to do Clearview correctly, so it's better for them to just give up.

4. Regardless of Clearview's performance as a font or the quality of signs created by it, the method by which Clearview was sold to the federal and state governments is somewhere between misleading and a grift.

5. Because of particular characteristics of Clearview's letterforms, it is more difficult to work with than the FHWA Series fonts, which is probably a contributing factor to point 3.

[on_wisconsin]

The vast majority of bike lanes/intersection boxes and road diets are good things.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

There is actually nothing wrong with Stroads.

[Max Rockatansky]

There is actually nothing wrong with Stroads.

Sure there is.  The Urbanist branded name is beyond fucking awful. 

[elsmere241]

There is actually nothing wrong with Stroads.

Kirkwood Highway here (part of DE 2) has turned into one over the years.  Now our local planning council (WILMAPCO) is trying to figure out what to do to fix it.  They have some interesting ideas, but I don't know if or when they could get funded.

[Scott5114]

There is actually nothing wrong with Stroads.

Sure there is.  The Urbanist branded name is beyond fucking awful. 

Stroads sound like some unappetizing thing that you'd see listed on the meal schedule at a school cafeteria. "I need to take my lunch to school on Wednesday, Ma, they're having stroads."

[kphoger]

toads out for a stroll

[vdeane]

This might be a bit random, but I wonder if how much a person will tolerate a word like "stroad" has to do with how used they are to seeing combined couple names for fandom shipping (such as the Max Caulfield/Chloe Price ship from Life is Strange being "Pricefield" - and that's one of the less cringe-inducing ones out there; more typically you get stuff like Harry Potter/Ginny Weasley being "Hinny").

[1995hoo]

Here's a more traditional "hot take": It is completely unacceptable and a major faux pas not to turn left on a yellow light when there's a line behind you.

in some states, you are only allowed to proceed through a yellow light if it was impossible to safely stop in time.

However, to my reading, such laws only pertain to entering the intersection. If you're already in the intersection when the light turns yellow, you're not prohibited from completing your turn.

Well, if you were already in the intersection to begin with, then I should hope you'd proceed to complete your left turn when the light changes.  Otherwise, you'd just be hanging out there in the middle of the intersection to get creamed.  Therefore, I assumed you were talking about entering the intersection to make a left turn on yellow.

To clarify, the first car not pulling into the intersection on green - or only pulling partially into it, so they're not committed to going through once it turns yellow - is the root of the problem in most cases.

I still think you're trying to paint with too broad a brush. If the first driver feels he can better see oncoming traffic by staying behind the line—whether because of intersection geometry, a prevalence of large SUVs or trucks that make it hard to see, whatever—then that person is well within his rights to stay behind the line and the fact that someone further back doesn't like it is nobody's "problem" other than the impatient driver further back. I can think of an intersection near my house where probably 90% of drivers wait behind the line when coming from the south because pulling out into the box means pulling close to three-quarters of the way across (due to the other road's layout) and at that point it's harder to see the oncoming traffic.

[kphoger]

My larger question is why it's a problem.  All it should mean is that you're now second in line at the red light instead of first in line.  Big deal, you'll still get to go when the light turns green either way—and you wouldn't have gotten to go either way.

The only reason I can think of for someone to be upset about that is if they were hoping to sneak through the yellow light too, and the other driver hanging back behind the line before going at the last second thwarted that plan.  Personally, I'd rather not have one vehicle out in the middle of the intersection and a second one hanging two-thirds of the way across the stop line:  considering that sometimes the first car has to clear the intersection on red, that would mean the second car has to complete almost the entire turning maneuver on red.  No, if you're second in line, then just wait your turn behind the line.