Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

If the Madison US 151 reroute is approved I wonder if WISDOT will pursue getting rid of more state routes in urban areas? Milwaukee has quite a few and aren't even signed on Freeways in the Downtown Area. Wis 26 in Waupun would be an easy one. Wis 22 would make more sense to reroute onto Highland in Oconto Falls.

Counties in Notheast Wisconsin seem to be doing it too Outagamie Co. got rid of KK on John St and E on S Ballard Rd while Calumet got rid of LP in Menasha and F/Y in Chilton.

I think a significant factor is that Madison wanted this done to get US-151 off of Park Street. Are those other cities going to be interested in making such a deal?

[peterj920]

If the Madison US 151 reroute is approved I wonder if WISDOT will pursue getting rid of more state routes in urban areas? Milwaukee has quite a few and aren't even signed on Freeways in the Downtown Area. Wis 26 in Waupun would be an easy one. Wis 22 would make more sense to reroute onto Highland in Oconto Falls.

Counties in Notheast Wisconsin seem to be doing it too Outagamie Co. got rid of KK on John St and E on S Ballard Rd while Calumet got rid of LP in Menasha and F/Y in Chilton.

I think a significant factor is that Madison wanted this done to get US-151 off of Park Street. Are those other cities going to be interested in making such a deal?

They'd be interested if WISDOT pays to rebuild the road. In all these situations the road was rebuilt first. In Calumet/Outagamie Counties it was weird seeing the County detour signs only for the signs to disappear after the road opened.

[SEWIGuy]

If the Madison US 151 reroute is approved I wonder if WISDOT will pursue getting rid of more state routes in urban areas? Milwaukee has quite a few and aren't even signed on Freeways in the Downtown Area. Wis 26 in Waupun would be an easy one. Wis 22 would make more sense to reroute onto Highland in Oconto Falls.

Counties in Notheast Wisconsin seem to be doing it too Outagamie Co. got rid of KK on John St and E on S Ballard Rd while Calumet got rid of LP in Menasha and F/Y in Chilton.

I think a significant factor is that Madison wanted this done to get US-151 off of Park Street. Are those other cities going to be interested in making such a deal?

They'd be interested if WISDOT pays to rebuild the road. In all these situations the road was rebuilt first. In Calumet/Outagamie Counties it was weird seeing the County detour signs only for the signs to disappear after the road opened.

They might be. My guess is that it would be a case-by-case basis.

Regardless, I doubt they move WI-26 because that's multiple jurisdictions. However I could see WI-57 ending at WI-190 (Capitol Drive) at some point.

[peterj920]

Based on the bridge work in Green Bay this is the end of expoxy overlays on bridge decks?

I'm guessing this was another WISDOT lesson on how snowplows can ruin well intended projects by scraping them. In the early 2000s there were lane reflectors placed on freeways and expressways until WISDOT realized they have a short lifespan due to Wisconsin winters. That's also what the expoxy overlays fell victim to and that's why so many of them are peeling and have holes in them across the state.

[ET21]

Did my annual trip to Road America this past weekend. I-43 is so nice with most of the work done, though there was one short section on the SB side still getting worked on.

Will be curious how long it'll be before they make it 3 lanes to the Rt 57 Plymouth split

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 43 will probably not be expanded to six lanes north of STH 60 anytime soon, if it happens at all.

[JREwing78]

Based on the bridge work in Green Bay this is the end of expoxy overlays on bridge decks?

I'm guessing this was another WISDOT lesson on how snowplows can ruin well intended projects by scraping them. In the early 2000s there were lane reflectors placed on freeways and expressways until WISDOT realized they have a short lifespan due to Wisconsin winters. That's also what the expoxy overlays fell victim to and that's why so many of them are peeling and have holes in them across the state.

This works better if you lead in with what exactly you're talking about. I'm going to assume for the sake of discussion it's this project here: https://projects.511wi.gov/i41rehabbrwin/full-project-overview/

From how WisDOT describes the project, they're removing the old, worn epoxy overlay and replacing it with a new layer. That's not "the end of epoxy overlays" by a long shot. From the website:

Project improvements
This is a bridge preservation project. Project improvements include:

• Milling a portion of the deck, performing deck repairs, and overlaying with a polyester polymer concrete (PPC) overlay
  
  • Six interchange flyover ramp bridge overlays are in Brown County.
• Polymer overlay at the I-41 and US-45 system interchange ramp in Winnebago County.

It makes sense that they would want to remove/replace the overlay. These are in an area that can use a high-friction surface and enhanced protection from the elements. It's unfortunate that snowplows are tearing up the surface, but they do that all over the place, not just to epoxy overlays on bridges. 

They're pretty expensive, so of course they're not going to use them everywhere. But where they make sense (and the freeway ring around Green Bay is somewhere they make sense), WisDOT will continue their use - at least until something better comes along.

[JREwing78]

Did my annual trip to Road America this past weekend. I-43 is so nice with most of the work done, though there was one short section on the SB side still getting worked on.

Will be curious how long it'll be before they make it 3 lanes to the Rt 57 Plymouth split

Interstate 43 will probably not be expanded to six lanes north of STH 60 anytime soon, if it happens at all.

Probably correct. 

If/when this happens, the Hwy 57 interchange will likely be converted to a right-exit for Hwy 57 to meet modern standards (like the NBD -> WBD ramp from I-39/90 to US-12/18 near Madison).

The interchange at Hwy 33 would be a good candidate for a diverging-diamond interchange. Ditto Hwy 60. That's enough for a large-scale project, and it's at that point WisDOT will likely pull the trigger on 6-laning.

Currently, traffic counts drop to about 45,000 vpd north of Hwy 60, and then Hwy 57 takes a third of that traffic. Those numbers have only recently risen back to 2007 levels; traffic counts were considerably lower over most of the past 20 years. The 4-lane section north of Hwy 60 doesn't seem to be a major or dangerous restriction.

[dvferyance]

Interstate 43 will probably not be expanded to six lanes north of STH 60 anytime soon, if it happens at all.

I could one day see it expanded to 6 lanes up to the 57 split but north of there no chance at all.

[peterj920]

Based on the bridge work in Green Bay this is the end of expoxy overlays on bridge decks?

I'm guessing this was another WISDOT lesson on how snowplows can ruin well intended projects by scraping them. In the early 2000s there were lane reflectors placed on freeways and expressways until WISDOT realized they have a short lifespan due to Wisconsin winters. That's also what the expoxy overlays fell victim to and that's why so many of them are peeling and have holes in them across the state.

This works better if you lead in with what exactly you're talking about. I'm going to assume for the sake of discussion it's this project here: https://projects.511wi.gov/i41rehabbrwin/full-project-overview/

From how WisDOT describes the project, they're removing the old, worn epoxy overlay and replacing it with a new layer. That's not "the end of epoxy overlays" by a long shot. From the website:

Project improvements
This is a bridge preservation project. Project improvements include:

• Milling a portion of the deck, performing deck repairs, and overlaying with a polyester polymer concrete (PPC) overlay
  
  • Six interchange flyover ramp bridge overlays are in Brown County.
• Polymer overlay at the I-41 and US-45 system interchange ramp in Winnebago County.

It makes sense that they would want to remove/replace the overlay. These are in an area that can use a high-friction surface and enhanced protection from the elements. It's unfortunate that snowplows are tearing up the surface, but they do that all over the place, not just to epoxy overlays on bridges.

They're pretty expensive, so of course they're not going to use them everywhere. But where they make sense (and the freeway ring around Green Bay is somewhere they make sense), WisDOT will continue their use - at least until something better comes along.

The PPC Overlay is what they're using instead of expoxy. It's a stronger concrete coating and won't peal like expoxy does. I hope it works and preserves the bridge decks.

[peterj920]

Did my annual trip to Road America this past weekend. I-43 is so nice with most of the work done, though there was one short section on the SB side still getting worked on.

Will be curious how long it'll be before they make it 3 lanes to the Rt 57 Plymouth split

Interstate 43 will probably not be expanded to six lanes north of STH 60 anytime soon, if it happens at all.

Probably correct.

If/when this happens, the Hwy 57 interchange will likely be converted to a right-exit for Hwy 57 to meet modern standards (like the NBD -> WBD ramp from I-39/90 to US-12/18 near Madison).

The interchange at Hwy 33 would be a good candidate for a diverging-diamond interchange. Ditto Hwy 60. That's enough for a large-scale project, and it's at that point WisDOT will likely pull the trigger on 6-laning.

Currently, traffic counts drop to about 45,000 vpd north of Hwy 60, and then Hwy 57 takes a third of that traffic. Those numbers have only recently risen back to 2007 levels; traffic counts were considerably lower over most of the past 20 years. The 4-lane section north of Hwy 60 doesn't seem to be a major or dangerous restriction.

I just want WISDOT to resurface I-43 in Ozaukee County. The diamond grinding isn't working and it's rough again. A dowel bar retrofit wasn't done between joints and another grind won't work. I wonder why WISDOT likes the 50 year old concrete so much on that stretch?

[D-Dey65]

2. The City of Madison doesn't want through traffic on its streets when perfectly good highway options exist.

If Madison, and the rest of Wisconsin continues on the current "new urbanist" direction, those highway options won't exist.

On another topic, just what is Francesca Hong's position on I-94?

[Big John]

2. The City of Madison doesn't want through traffic on its streets when perfectly good highway options exist.

If Madison, and the rest of Wisconsin continues on the current "new urbanist" direction, those highway options won't exist.

On another topic, just what is Francesca Hong's position on I-94?

Google says she is against the I-94 project and for turning I-794 into a boulevard.

[D-Dey65]

2. The City of Madison doesn't want through traffic on its streets when perfectly good highway options exist.

If Madison, and the rest of Wisconsin continues on the current "new urbanist" direction, those highway options won't exist.

On another topic, just what is Francesca Hong's position on I-94?

Google says she is against the I-94 project and for turning I-794 into a boulevard.

Just what I thought.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

She can want that, but given Wisconsin's notorious toss-up political makeup, it's unlikely she could effect anything of such (and definitely not in 1 term as governor) if she did get elected.

[SEWIGuy]

And she lost, so its pretty much irrelevant.

[peterj920]

Signage update at the southbound beginning of Wis 26. Madison is omitted from the new sign on the I-41 off ramp. It just says Rosendale and Waupun.

[SEWIGuy]

Signage update at the southbound beginning of Wis 26. Madison is omitted from the new sign on the I-41 off ramp. It just says Rosendale and Waupun.

But Madison has never been on those signs as far as I know. According to GSV, Waupun was the only control city...then Rosendale was. Now apparently it will be both?

[JREwing78]

Signage update at the southbound beginning of Wis 26. Madison is omitted from the new sign on the I-41 off ramp. It just says Rosendale and Waupun.

But Madison has never been on those signs as far as I know. According to GSV, Waupun was the only control city...then Rosendale was. Now apparently it will be both?

He's talking about the guide signage on the off-ramp as you're approaching the stoplight for Hwy 26, not the BGS on the Interstate itself. That guide sign had all 3 cities on it from as far back as 2007.

It's continued nudging by WisDOT to keep traffic on I-41 to Fond du Lac v.s. risking a ticket in Rosendale. 

[OCGuy81]

In Wisconsin for the next week, and drove up after a flight into O'Hare.

Noticed that I-94/41 in Racine County have new enhanced mileage markers. Unlike everywhere else I've seen so far, they're not using the blue, but a green color.

The green ones also have both the 94 and 41 shields on them as well, using 94's mileage.

Was this just a move by Racine County? Is Wisconsin switching out enhanced mileage markers statewide?

[SEWIGuy]

Signage update at the southbound beginning of Wis 26. Madison is omitted from the new sign on the I-41 off ramp. It just says Rosendale and Waupun.

But Madison has never been on those signs as far as I know. According to GSV, Waupun was the only control city...then Rosendale was. Now apparently it will be both?

He's talking about the guide signage on the off-ramp as you're approaching the stoplight for Hwy 26, not the BGS on the Interstate itself. That guide sign had all 3 cities on it from as far back as 2007.

It's continued nudging by WisDOT to keep traffic on I-41 to Fond du Lac v.s. risking a ticket in Rosendale.

Thanks, but I don't think removing "Madison" on the guide signage after a car exits is going to have much impact on how someone drives to Madison.

[peterj920]

In Wisconsin for the next week, and drove up after a flight into O'Hare.

Noticed that I-94/41 in Racine County have new enhanced mileage markers. Unlike everywhere else I've seen so far, they're not using the blue, but a green color.

The green ones also have both the 94 and 41 shields on them as well, using 94's mileage.

Was this just a move by Racine County? Is Wisconsin switching out enhanced mileage markers statewide?

They're green on I-41 in Oshkosh and Green Bay too. It appears that green signs are going to replace the blue signs.

[The Ghostbuster]

Northbound traffic to shift to new Wisconsin River bridge Wednesday night.