NC: Proposed I-777 (Wilkesboro to Winston-Salem along US 421)

[Rothman]

There's a reason why Congress is called the legislative branch of our government...

Because they can override a process that shouldn't have government interference?

...

Because they make the laws and AASHTO was only filling a legislative void when it took upon itself that role.

Also, please review what "AASHTO" stands for if you think they're not government...

Given the amount of interstate highways (and numbers) that have been written into law recently, I feel like the USDOT/FHWA/AASHTO/ or someone should one day have the authority to reject or provide alternative numbers for proposed interstates regardless of if a specific number was written into law. Given that a lot of these new interstates are unfunded mandates (i.e. I-69), there is no guarantee that it would get built in the foreseeable, especially in poorer states without earmarked funds from Congress. Reserving a number for a Congressman's election rather than a highway that has actual viability is a waste.

Probably should give the Constitution a read...

Assuming it went to the Supreme Court, it could be argued that the Federal government has an interest in assigning and maintaining route numbers for the national highway systems, both Interstate and the US Highway System. In the case of suffixed routes, the Federal government has an interest in removing and disallowing them to improve the overall navigability of the system.

Regarding 3DIs, this is less of an issue as they were always intended for local / intrastate connectivity, but I think it's improper for Congress to assign highway numbers.

Wut.

USDOT/FHWA are Executive Branch agencies.  AASHTO only has informal authority.  Congress makes laws.

The idea of someone challenging congressional laws that assign route numbers in a way that any appeals court would entertain after being struck down by summary judgment strikes me as delusional.  Wonder if an attorney would even take up the case.

[vdeane]

^ And given that the Supreme Court heard a case where the plaintiff basically asked for the ability of Congress to even willingly delegate authority to federal agencies be declared unconstitutional, something tells me they wouldn't rule in favor of a federal agency (much less an independent organization like AASHTO) overriding Congress.

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

Bumping this......

Why would Winston-Salem want 421/old green 40 tacked on, when they already took 40 off of it 3+ decades ago?

Also, I do wonder if Boone actually getting the long-rumored Daniel Boone Parkway built would make it a candidate to be part of this I-777 (which SHOULD be I-340)......while Wilkesboro is a regionally important place to northwest NC, it doesn't hold a candle to the importance of Boone and ASU. Though the terrain between the Wilkesboros and Boone would be a whole other kettle of fish in its own right.

If you really wanted an I-x77 route in NC, take I-74 here out of the system and re-designate the I-77 to Winston-Salem portion as I-177

[sprjus4]

Bumping this......

Why would Winston-Salem want 421/old green 40 tacked on, when they already took 40 off of it 3+ decades ago?

Also, I do wonder if Boone actually getting the long-rumored Daniel Boone Parkway built would make it a candidate to be part of this I-777 (which SHOULD be I-340)......while Wilkesboro is a regionally important place to northwest NC, it doesn't hold a candle to the importance of Boone and ASU. Though the terrain between the Wilkesboros and Boone would be a whole other kettle of fish in its own right.

If you really wanted an I-x77 route in NC, take I-74 here out of the system and re-designate the I-77 to Winston-Salem portion as I-177

I-777 is proposed to run between I-40 on the west side of Winston-Salem to Wilksboro... basically where the existing highway is already a freeway.

They're not talking about upgrading other parts that have intersections, etc.

I agree though - the only thing of significance is Boone. US-421 is adequate and already is a freeway.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Mabey once they get to the top of the ridgeline west of Wilkesboro on 421, they can upgrade the Blue Ridge Parkway to an interstate to Boone as a southern bypass

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe the proposed Interstate 685 and Interstate 777 corridors should be combined and numbered as a 2di, like Interstate 38.

[yadkinv]

"Maybe the proposed Interstate 685 and Interstate 777 corridors should be combined and numbered as a 2di, like Interstate 38." This is an outstanding idea!!! Or, the entire thing could be I 685. Actually, it should not be I 685 at all, it should be really I 695 giving the Triad (though it really is a questionable reference) an I 95 presence.

Anyway, I 777 violates AASHTO naming convention and was proposed apparently as a cutesy refernce or by those unaware of the naming conventions (but so is NCDOT as well). It should be I 477 from I 77 to I 40 in Winston-Salem and then I 777 from I 77 to North Wilkesboro and eventually Boone.

[brian440i]

My Fantasy Choice:
I am in favor of I-42
(Acknowleging the NC540 Toll Way)

I-42 to NC540 to US64 to I685 to I-85 to I40 to US421

I-42  Morehead City to Johnson City, TN

[sprjus4]

"Maybe the proposed Interstate 685 and Interstate 777 corridors should be combined and numbered as a 2di, like Interstate 38." This is an outstanding idea!!!

Given both corridors mostly operate independently of each other (most traffic is not following from end to end) and don't connect to any major destinations on either end, plus having to overlap with 1-2 other existing interstates for dozens of miles just to connect, this seems to be looking to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Anyway, I 777 violates AASHTO naming convention and was proposed apparently as a cutesy refernce or by those unaware of the naming conventions (but so is NCDOT as well). It should be I 477 from I 77 to I 40 in Winston-Salem and then I 777 from I 77 to North Wilkesboro and eventually Boone.

This corridor questionably justifies even one designation, in no way does it need to be two designations. I-777 would be appropriate for the entire length. Or an I-x40 designation, which would make more sense. Or US-421, which makes the most sense.

[ElishaGOtis]

Do be advised the fictional board exists 

ALTHOUGH...

My Fantasy Choice:
I am in favor of I-42
(Acknowleging the NC540 Toll Way)

I-42 to NC540 to US64 to I685 to I-85 to I40 to US421

I-42  Morehead City to Johnson City, TN

... I do agree.

[Dirt Roads]

Anyway, I 777 violates AASHTO naming convention and was proposed apparently as a cutesy refernce or by those unaware of the naming conventions (but so is NCDOT as well). It should be I 477 from I 77 to I 40 in Winston-Salem and then I 777 from I 77 to North Wilkesboro and eventually Boone.

Your comment was a few days premature.  Historically, even-numbered 3dis were supposed to be complete loop bypasses or partial loop bypasses of major cities.  More recently, the FHWA stated that even-numbered 3dis were supposed to be "full or partial circumferential freeways around or within urban areas".  But this week, the FHWA website was revised to say something that is more open to your suggestion:

Connecting Interstate routes and full or partial circumferential beltways around or within urban areas carry a three-digit number. These routes are designated with the number of the main route and an even-numbered prefix.

[The Ghostbuster]

I'm sure we can all agree that designating this segment of US 421 as an Interstate is overkill. They should concentrate on upgrading the future Interstate 685 segment of US 421 to Interstate Standards first. Then, maybe decades from now, the Winston-Salem-to-Wilkesboro segment can receive upgrades (without Interstate shields being added).

[yadkinv]

They should concentrate on upgrading the future Interstate 685 segment of US 421 to Interstate Standards first.

Yes agreed; however, the initial plan should be expanded and extended (somehow) to W-S because of the city's size, transportation needs, and because it foillows US 421. Also. it should be signed I-695 indicating the intended connection of the triad (lower case since it exists differently depending upon in which city one is located) to the I 95 corridor. The term Triad will be misleading and ought not be used if I-685 (I-695) stops in Greensboro.

[Strider]

They should concentrate on upgrading the future Interstate 685 segment of US 421 to Interstate Standards first.

Yes agreed; however, the initial plan should be expanded and extended (somehow) to W-S because of the city's size, transportation needs, and because it foillows US 421. Also. it should be signed I-695 indicating the intended connection of the triad (lower case since it exists differently depending upon in which city one is located) to the I 95 corridor. The term Triad will be misleading and ought not be used if I-685 (I-695) stops in Greensboro.

That belongs in the fictional thread and should be moved there.

I-685 is the official number that runs from Greensboro to either Dunn or Fayetteville (or wherever they decide). No reason to continue talking about it.

[PColumbus73]

Seconded that I-777 is completely unnecessary.

Considering I-685 was established to satisfy the Toyota plant, I'm fine with it ending at US 1 in Sanford, as it would satisfy NC's commitment to giving the plant an interstate. It would be interesting to see how they get it to I-95. South / east of Sanford most traffic is going toward Fayetteville, which would be a logical end, but routing it around Spring Lake and Fort Bragg would be a challenge.

[yadkinv]

OK, agree I reckon with not switching from I 685 to I 695 though the "stated" route would be from Dunn (I 95) not Sanford. However, must disagree, courteoulsy the stretch of US 421 from I 40 in W-S, in my and many other opinions needs an Interstate designation for a heap of reasons not the least of which is to connect W-S to I 77 plus (as stated) promoting development.

[ObsidianTheFox]

My Fantasy Choice:
I am in favor of I-42
(Acknowleging the NC540 Toll Way)

I-42 to NC540 to US64 to I685 to I-85 to I40 to US421

I-42  Morehead City to Johnson City, TN

I also thought of this exact idea (before reading this post). +1, this is the best way to do this. (If you're extending it to Boone, may as well go all the way to Johnson City!) If this is done, the remaining part of I-685 to Fayetteville should probably be something like I-342.

It would also be pretty simple to bypass 540 by crossing Raleigh via US-64 and I-40 instead.

[PColumbus73]

I feel like an interstate 'promoting development' only works when the interstate improves connectivity from the existing conditions.

Winston-Salem is already connected to I-77 through I-40 and (future) I-74, both of these interstates provide a much more efficient connection on the east side of I-77 over a proposed I-777. If they want economic development in Wilkesboro, the state representatives need to allocate funding to support future development and local investment. An interstate by itself doesn't work unless it goes somewhere people want to go.

[yadkinv]

Well OK, but it seems those proposing I 777 think otherwise and it has been made official by stated support from Forsyth County.

[WashuOtaku]

Well OK, but it seems those proposing I 777 think otherwise and it has been made official by stated support from Forsyth County.

I believe they made the announcement in an effort to strike while the iron was hot when I-685 was approved. However, I have seen no reaction from NCDOT on this, just like every time the City of Wilmington approves another interstate to its city (I-20, I-74, I-685, etc.). Just because some local official thinks is a great idea does not mean the State has to go along with it.

US 421 is fine as is. There is no rational to be upgraded to interstate.

[brian440i]

Let's Remember what we are talking about....  Shoulders.

US421 between Winston Salem and Wilkesboro (Sometimes designated as Alt I-40 when I-40 has construction) has been a Limited Controlled Freeway for over 30 Years... 

Do they need to waste money on Shoulders to Wilkesboro just to get an Interstate Number...  No.  (But its also not an extravagent cost.)

The NC DOT Divisions  on either end would rather spend $1 Billion for the Boone/BlowingRock By-Pass or Completion of I274 in Winston Salem. (BTW I-274 will increase demand on US421 in Yadkin County once you have full movement between US421 and I-40 for Residential)

Personally - Before any dollar for Shoulders on US421 - I'd rather see a NC16/US421 Interchange and Frontage Roads to lock in the Wilkesboro sprawl to the West of Wilkesboro.

[yadkinv]

US 421 is fine as is. There is no rational to be upgraded to interstate.

One must duisagree, courteously. This is the problem that has gotten W-S into its complacent status, which is to say horse-and-buggy thinking by city and county officials.

[PColumbus73]

US 421 is fine as is. There is no rational to be upgraded to interstate.

One must duisagree, courteously. This is the problem that has gotten W-S into its complacent status, which is to say horse-and-buggy thinking by city and county officials.

What do you mean by that?

I think Greensboro is in a better position to capitalize on I-40, 85 and now I-73. Once I-74 is fully open between I-77 and I-95, Winston-Salem will be able to siphon traffic away from Greensboro.

[Strider]

US 421 is fine as is. There is no rational to be upgraded to interstate.

One must duisagree, courteously. This is the problem that has gotten W-S into its complacent status, which is to say horse-and-buggy thinking by city and county officials.

What do you mean by that?

I think Greensboro is in a better position to capitalize on I-40, 85 and now I-73. Once I-74 is fully open between I-77 and I-95, Winston-Salem will be able to siphon traffic away from Greensboro.

Only if traffic is heading southeast (Asheboro, Rockingham and points south). Most traffic will still go to Greensboro and points east (Burlington, Mebane, Durham, Raleigh, etc.)

[sprjus4]

Let's Remember what we are talking about....  Shoulders.

US421 between Winston Salem and Wilkesboro (Sometimes designated as Alt I-40 when I-40 has construction) has been a Limited Controlled Freeway for over 30 Years... 

Do they need to waste money on Shoulders to Wilkesboro just to get an Interstate Number...  No.  (But its also not an extravagent cost.)

The NC DOT Divisions  on either end would rather spend $1 Billion for the Boone/BlowingRock By-Pass or Completion of I274 in Winston Salem. (BTW I-274 will increase demand on US421 in Yadkin County once you have full movement between US421 and I-40 for Residential)

Personally - Before any dollar for Shoulders on US421 - I'd rather see a NC16/US421 Interchange and Frontage Roads to lock in the Wilkesboro sprawl to the West of Wilkesboro.

While I don't think an interstate designation is necessary, I don't hate the idea of paving the shoulders as a safety feature. Then again, this can be done with routine resurfacing activities.