__________ is/are overrated.

[Rothman]

Wait, what prevents you from using PTO?

I'm the only one who does my job.  So, by taking a day off, I effectively make more work for myself to do the other days of the week.

Also, my wife runs a home daycare, and we have a small house, and it's less than desirable to spend an off day with someone else's obnoxious kids.

Put those two things together, and it's generally better for me to just work.

Eesh.  Earning time off with an inability to use it sounds like some sort of fraud, or at least sisyphean. 

Just seems sad that "I have to work more, because I'll get fired if I don't keep up, and I can't keep up if I take my PTO or have holidays off, so I'm opposed to more holidays" is a thing.

[kphoger]

Eesh.  Earning time off with an inability to use it sounds like some sort of fraud, or at least sisyphean. 

Just seems sad that "I have to work more, because I'll get fired if I don't keep up, and I can't keep up if I take my PTO or have holidays off, so I'm opposed to more holidays" is a thing.

Oh, they're more than happy to let me take my PTO whenever I request it.  I just don't request it, because the rest of my days that week end up being more work, and I get no real benefit from being at home instead of at work.  Then October comes around and I'm like, —Oh, crap, I need to use up 90 hours of PTO, or whatever.  Every year.

[Rothman]

Eesh.  Earning time off with an inability to use it sounds like some sort of fraud, or at least sisyphean. 

Just seems sad that "I have to work more, because I'll get fired if I don't keep up, and I can't keep up if I take my PTO or have holidays off, so I'm opposed to more holidays" is a thing.

Oh, they're more than happy to let me take my PTO whenever I request it.  I just don't request it, because the rest of my days that week end up being more work, and I get no real benefit from being at home instead of at work.  Then October comes around and I'm like, —Oh, crap, I need to use up 90 hours of PTO, or whatever.  Every year.

"I'd rather be at work, being told what to do by someone else, than be at home" is another sad statement, though.

[kphoger]

"I'd rather be at work, being told what to do by someone else, than be at home" is another sad statement, though.

I certainly don't spend my day at work being told what to do by someone else.  Heck, my bosses don't even really know most of what I do.  That's part of the reason I'm the only one who does my job.  When I stepped into the position, they gave me a list of tasks, and it was up to me to figure out how to accomplish them.  Then, over the years, the list has changed by additions and deletions, but nobody has ever really kept track of them.  In fact, my bosses aren't even the same people as back then.  So, not only do my bosses not know how I do what I do, but they really don't even have a comprehensive list of what it is that I do.  All they know is that my piece of the business runs smoothly, while they only have a vague sense of what my piece of the business actually entails.

If I were to die in a car crash tomorrow, the company would be pretty screwed for a while, till my closest co-worker figured out how to do what I do based on the last time I trained her to cover for a week's vacation.  But even she doesn't know the weekly and monthly things I do—just the daily stuff, minus the changes that have happened since she last sat in my chair.

[Rothman]

"I'd rather be at work, being told what to do by someone else, than be at home" is another sad statement, though.

I certainly don't spend my day at work being told what to do by someone else.  Heck, my bosses don't even really know most of what I do.  That's part of the reason I'm the only one who does my job.  When I stepped into the position, they gave me a list of tasks, and it was up to me to figure out how to accomplish them.  Then, over the years, the list has changed by additions and deletions, but nobody has ever really kept track of them.  In fact, my bosses aren't even the same people as back then.  So, not only do my bosses not know how I do what I do, but they really don't even have a comprehensive list of what it is that I do.  All they know is that my piece of the business runs smoothly, while they only have a vague sense of what my piece of the business actually entails.

If I were to die in a car crash tomorrow, the company would be pretty screwed for a while, till my closest co-worker figured out how to do what I do based on the last time I trained her to cover for a week's vacation.  But even she doesn't know the weekly and monthly things I do—just the daily stuff, minus the changes that have happened since she last sat in my chair.

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

"These walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, you get so you depend on them..."

[Scott5114]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

[Rothman]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

Right...you still have a boss...

[Scott5114]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

Right...you still have a boss...

Kyle mentioned he has one several times. It's just that they don't know exactly what he does all day. Presumably, if he fell behind, they'd know whatever consequences ensued were his fault, though.

[Rothman]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

Right...you still have a boss...

Kyle mentioned he has one several times. It's just that they don't know exactly what he does all day. Presumably, if he fell behind, they'd know whatever consequences ensued were his fault, though.

Well, yes.  That was my point:  He'd rather be at work under the expectations of a boss than at home.

[kphoger]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Except that I have still have deadlines and, if I were to miss those deadlines, there would be problems.  Specifically, our company wouldn't get paid on time for the work we did, or techs wouldn't get paid for the work they did.

[Rothman]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Except that I have still have deadlines.

...which inform you what to do since they're enforced by your employer.

[kphoger]

...which inform you what to do since they're enforced by your employer.

*sigh*

Generally, yes.  It's my job to make sure everything is wrapped up by the time payroll gets closed every two weeks.  It's my job to make sure MSO invoices are approved by the weekly cutoff.  But they don't tell me how to wrap things up for payroll, because they don't even know how that is accomplished.  They don't tell me how to audit MSO invoices, because they wouldn't even know what to look for or how to dispute them, and I bet they don't even know when that weekly cutoff is.  I have no daily schedule.  As long as things are getting done on time, they give zero shits about what I do along the way.

[Rothman]

...which inform you what to do since they're enforced by your employer.

*sigh*

Generally, yes.  It's my job to make sure everything is wrapped up by the time payroll gets closed every two weeks.  It's my job to make sure MSO invoices are approved by the weekly cutoff.  But they don't tell me how to wrap things up for payroll, because they don't even know how that is accomplished.  They don't tell me how to audit MSO invoices, because they wouldn't even know what to look for or how to dispute them, and I bet they don't even know when that weekly cutoff is.  I have no daily schedule.  As long as things are getting done on time, they give zero shits about what I do along the way.

Right, but this is getting darker:

"They don't tell me what to do, but I have to comply with their deadlines, even if it means not being able to utilize my well-earned PTO to comply with such."

So, we're going from "I prefer to work over being home" to "I must work over being home.  I cannot utilize PTO or holidays since I will not be able to comply with deadlines and therefore I see more holidays as a threat to my employment rather than a benefit."

[JayhawkCO]

...which inform you what to do since they're enforced by your employer.

*sigh*

Generally, yes.  It's my job to make sure everything is wrapped up by the time payroll gets closed every two weeks.  It's my job to make sure MSO invoices are approved by the weekly cutoff.  But they don't tell me how to wrap things up for payroll, because they don't even know how that is accomplished.  They don't tell me how to audit MSO invoices, because they wouldn't even know what to look for or how to dispute them, and I bet they don't even know when that weekly cutoff is.  I have no daily schedule.  As long as things are getting done on time, they give zero shits about what I do along the way.

But I still think it's a thing that companies need to have "alternatives" in place in case of PTO. I used to run payroll for my staff when I was working at the hotel, but if I was out of town, my AGM knew how to do it. In the tech world, this is always the joke:

[kphoger]

But I still think it's a thing that companies need to have "alternatives" in place in case of PTO. I used to run payroll for my staff when I was working at the hotel, but if I was out of town, my AGM knew how to do it. In the tech world, this is always the joke:

Yes, and the illustration is quite apt to describe my position.  The problem is manifold:

1.  It's a small company, so there's very little staffing overlap to begin with.

2.  I created my own procedures for everything I do, which means they're all custom-built for my strengths.

3.  My tasks are very complex and detail-oriented, with a zillion steps that are all second-nature to me because I do them every day.

4.  A lot of what I do is based on years of experience in other roles, and there's only one other person in the company who has had similar experience in those roles.

5.  If I were to make SOPs for what I do, not only would they each have a zillion steps, but little things change every so often, so they'd always be out of date.

[vdeane]

Oh, they're more than happy to let me take my PTO whenever I request it.  I just don't request it, because the rest of my days that week end up being more work, and I get no real benefit from being at home instead of at work.  Then October comes around and I'm like, —Oh, crap, I need to use up 90 hours of PTO, or whatever.  Every year.

Would it be possible to take an hour or two here and there and use the time to run errands or something rather than be stuck between "go to work" and "stay at home with other people's kids"?

[kphoger]

Would it be possible to take an hour or two here and there and use the time to run errands or something rather than be stuck between "go to work" and "stay at home with other people's kids"?

Yes, that would be ideal for me.  Or, actually, a couple of half-days every week or two.  But that's where we get to the other problem, which is that I forget to actually do that.

[hbelkins]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

Right...you still have a boss...

Kyle mentioned he has one several times. It's just that they don't know exactly what he does all day. Presumably, if he fell behind, they'd know whatever consequences ensued were his fault, though.

Well, yes.  That was my point:  He'd rather be at work under the expectations of a boss than at home.

News flash: Unless you live alone, when you're at home, you're still under the expectations of a boss.

[Rothman]

If no one is telling you what to do and not holding you accountable, then there's no reason for you to pile on the work to "catch up" after you return from taking PTO.

Eh, I can kind of sympathize. Jake doesn't necessarily tell me what to do or hold me immediately accountable for not doing it, but if I were to slack on certain things, something would break badly enough he'd figure out real quick what it is I'm not doing. I'm guessing Kyle has more of a buffer since he's part of a bigger company, but it's probably the same sort of deal.

Right...you still have a boss...

Kyle mentioned he has one several times. It's just that they don't know exactly what he does all day. Presumably, if he fell behind, they'd know whatever consequences ensued were his fault, though.

Well, yes.  That was my point:  He'd rather be at work under the expectations of a boss than at home.

News flash: Unless you live alone, when you're at home, you're still under the expectations of a boss.

So...you prefer your work boss over your home boss...?

[kphoger]

So...you prefer your work boss over your home boss...?

How many times to I have to say it?  My wife operates a home daycare.

I prefer being at work under a boss to being around a bunch of other people's little kids—especially when there are babies sleeping in the otherwise-unused rooms of the house.

"They don't tell me what to do, but I have to comply with their deadlines, even if it means not being able to utilize my well-earned PTO to comply with such."

You keep putting words in my mouth, or ignoring the words I do say.

I'm able to utilize my well-earned PTO.  I don't think they've ever denied a request for one.  What I originally said is that "it might actually be in my own interest to argue for fewer paid days off".  I don't wish I had more days off available to use.  It's actually kind of annoying to figure out how to use up the ones I do have.  Maybe you have a bunch of stuff to do in your time off, and money to spend doing it.  I don't.

Also, it isn't necessarily their deadlines.  Payroll stuff has to be wrapped up by midday Tuesday every other week, but that's one of my only deadlines that came from my bosses.  My weekly Friday cutoff is because a company that we do business with closes their invoicing program down on Friday, and whatever I've approved by that point pays out to us as a company;  if I don't approve something, then it doesn't pay out till the following week.  That wasn't my bosses' decision to make.  Likewise, I have a certain number of days to submit disputes to those companies in order for them to be valid, but again, that wasn't by bosses' decision to make.  Heck, the contracts that we have with the companies we do business for have wording like "daily" in them, even though my bosses don't necessarily care if I do all those tasks on a daily basis.

So, we're going from "I prefer to work over being home" to "I must work over being home.  I cannot utilize PTO or holidays since I will not be able to comply with deadlines and therefore I see more holidays as a threat to my employment rather than a benefit."

Ha.  Again, words I didn't say.  My bosses would rather I didn't work the day after Thanksgiving.  But, because I have that aforementioned Friday cutoff, I come in anyway in order for the company to not miss out on two days' worth of pay that week.  That was my choice, not theirs.  Not doing so would have zero effect on my employment.

[Rothman]

So...you prefer your work boss over your home boss...?

How many times to I have to say it?  My wife operates a home daycare.

I prefer being at work under a boss to being around a bunch of other people's little kids—especially when there are babies sleeping in the otherwise-unused rooms of the house.

"They don't tell me what to do, but I have to comply with their deadlines, even if it means not being able to utilize my well-earned PTO to comply with such."

You keep putting words in my mouth, or ignoring the words I do say.

I'm able to utilize my well-earned PTO.  I don't think they've ever denied a request for one.  What I originally said is that "it might actually be in my own interest to argue for fewer paid days off".  I don't wish I had more days off available to use.  It's actually kind of annoying to figure out how to use up the ones I do have.  Maybe you have a bunch of stuff to do in your time off, and money to spend doing it.  I don't.

Also, it isn't necessarily their deadlines.  Payroll stuff has to be wrapped up by midday Tuesday every other week, but that's one of my only deadlines that came from my bosses.  My weekly Friday cutoff is because a company that we do business with closes their invoicing program down on Friday, and whatever I've approved by that point pays out to us as a company;  if I don't approve something, then it doesn't pay out till the following week.  That wasn't my bosses' decision to make.  Likewise, I have a certain number of days to submit disputes to those companies in order for them to be valid, but again, that wasn't by bosses' decision to make.  Heck, the contracts that we have with the companies we do business for have wording like "daily" in them, even though my bosses don't necessarily care if I do all those tasks on a daily basis.

So, we're going from "I prefer to work over being home" to "I must work over being home.  I cannot utilize PTO or holidays since I will not be able to comply with deadlines and therefore I see more holidays as a threat to my employment rather than a benefit."

Ha.  Again, words I didn't say.  My bosses would rather I didn't work the day after Thanksgiving.  But, because I have that aforementioned Friday cutoff, I come in anyway in order for the company to not miss out on two days' worth of pay that week.  That was my choice, not theirs.  Not doing so would have zero effect on my employment.

Doesn't this all boil down to you preferring to be paid to work rather than being paid not to work?

[kphoger]

Doesn't this all boil down to you preferring to be paid to work rather than being paid not to work?

Kind of, yes.  I'd rather have (a) five days of an average work load than (b) one day off and the same work load spread across four days instead.

[kphoger]

On the other hand, it sounds like your relationship with work is like, —It doesn't matter at all if I show up at the office or not, because the work gets done either way.

[Rothman]

On the other hand, it sounds like your relationship with work is like, —It doesn't matter at all if I show up at the office or not, because the work gets done either way.

Nah.  More like, "I can get my work done within my allotted workdays in a year, take my earned time off to boot, and enjoy my time outside of the office."

Then again, I have been staying late over the last whole bunch of months more often than I'd like (half-hour or less on most of the days I have).  And I'm salaried, so no comp time/overtime for me.  Bad time management on my part, perhaps.

[kphoger]

Bad time management on my part, perhaps.

Same here.  I'm sure it would be no big deal if I didn't visit this forum during the day...