Caltrans Business Signage population cap

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways.  Ridgecrest was granted an exception which will permit signage on US 395 (referred to as State Route 395 in the article):

https://www.kget.com/news/ridgecrest-2-other-cities-granted-temporary-caltrans-roadside-signage-exception/?fbclid=IwZnRzaAUYuwhwZG9mBWZkaWQWUOkk0z6S26H2Umw0RzoNN-q8hpqkV2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR6h-9zEF660QkSFFIUkNVvQ41GClL6Ff60i6j8l_z8lGMrzeFhhwXjuW5QK_A_aem_rrVlziYiLtIT-0RpMns38w

Anyways, I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.  This would explain the seemingly erratic usage of blue business signs in California.

[kphoger]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways ... I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

[Scott5114]

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

My guess is that the cap is because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting dozens of businesses in a town of a certain size. So it's unnecessary because it's easy enough to just find a business by driving around a little bit, and if they did post every single business, it would lead to lots of sign clutter.

My only issue with this is I think 5000 is a little low for that cutoff.

[kphoger]

My guess is that the cap is because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting dozens of businesses in a town of a certain size. So it's unnecessary because it's easy enough to just find a business by driving around a little bit, and if they did post every single business, it would lead to lots of sign clutter.

Yes, you do sometimes end up with weird stuff like logos for businesses that are two miles off Kellogg in Wichita.  Which seems less than ideal.

[vdeane]

My only issue with this is I think 5000 is a little low for that cutoff.

Perhaps they accidentally left out a 0 when drafting the cutoff?

[Max Rockatansky]

My only issue with this is I think 5000 is a little low for that cutoff.

Perhaps they accidentally left out a 0 when drafting the cutoff?

No, the legislation defining this figure also has a cutoff for signage removal due to population growth:

https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB990/id/3389405

[kphoger]

I picked a random pair of nearby towns, and it tracks.  No logo signs on CA-99 for Earlimart (pop. 7500), but yes for Pixley (pop. 3800).

[wanderer2575]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways ... I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

[kphoger]

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

That hasn't been my experience.  In fact, I prefer gas stations away from larger towns because they tend to have more room to build one that's actually big enough.  In a city, I figure there's really good chance the gas station will be some rinky-dink operation with a one-hole bathroom.

[pderocco]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways ... I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

Then you want blue signs that list specific businesses.

[Scott5114]

No logo signs on CA-99 for Earlimart

Earlimart sounds like it could itself be a business advertised on one of these signs. For those who need to stock up on coffee and donuts.

[kphoger]

No logo signs on CA-99 for Earlimart

Earlimart sounds like it could itself be a business advertised on one of these signs. For those who need to stock up on coffee and donuts.

Or how A.I. spells 'Parliament'.

[Max Rockatansky]

No logo signs on CA-99 for Earlimart

Earlimart sounds like it could itself be a business advertised on one of these signs. For those who need to stock up on coffee and donuts.

Apparently the current name is a reference to the local farmers who often brought their melon crops to market early.  The railroad siding name before that was "Alila."

The McDonald's on Sierra Avenue in Earlimart is pretty convenient.  It doesn't get a lot of traffic compared to the other locations on 99.

[wanderer2575]

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

That hasn't been my experience.  In fact, I prefer gas stations away from larger towns because they tend to have more room to build one that's actually big enough.  In a city, I figure there's really good chance the gas station will be some rinky-dink operation with a one-hole bathroom.

True, but I'm talking about whether any facility at all exists at the exit, not the qualities or even branding of said facility.

[Scott5114]

Apparently the current name is a reference to the local farmers who often brought their melon crops to market early.  The railroad siding name before that was "Alila."

I like that one better. It's spelled the same forward and backward.

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently the current name is a reference to the local farmers who often brought their melon crops to market early.  The railroad siding name before that was "Alila."

I like that one better. It's spelled the same forward and backward.

I haven't dug too deeply into it but usually those early names are a reference to someone adjacent to a Southern Pacific Railroad executive.

[kphoger]

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

That hasn't been my experience.  In fact, I prefer gas stations away from larger towns because they tend to have more room to build one that's actually big enough.  In a city, I figure there's really good chance the gas station will be some rinky-dink operation with a one-hole bathroom.

True, but I'm talking about whether any facility at all exists at the exit, not the qualities or even branding of said facility.

How many times have you seen a logo sign for where you want to go, taken the exit, and found that the business listed on the sign does not exist?

At any rate, I think a rinky-dink 7-Eleven in some random urban neighborhood is no less likely to be shut down than something at a small town exit.

[M3100]

Ridgecrest was granted an exception

And Ridgecrest is 6+ miles from US 395 (though US 395 Business passes through the town).  I can understand the reason for a mileage cap too, where businesses listed on signs must be within ## miles of the main highway.

[kphoger]

I can understand the reason for a mileage cap too, where businesses listed on signs must be within ## miles of the main highway.

I'd limit it to 1½ miles or maybe even less.

[pderocco]

Ridgecrest was granted an exception

And Ridgecrest is 6+ miles from US 395 (though US 395 Business passes through the town).  I can understand the reason for a mileage cap too, where businesses listed on signs must be within ## miles of the main highway.

In my fairly extensive experience in that area, Ridgecrest usually has significantly cheaper gas than anywhere else around there, even Kramer Junction, so it's good that people are being steered that way.

[Henry]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways ... I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

Count me in as someone else who gives no fucks about the population of a town. While I can deal with no number duplications when assigning routes, I feel that number should've been doubled to 10,000 if they insist on population caps. Fortunately, though, there are many billboards that will tell you which exit to take if you want to access a certain business, which I like to see anyway.

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently Caltrans has a population cap of 5,000 for communities where they will post business service signage on state highways ... I had no idea there was some sort of population limit for signage such as this.

That cap seems like a meaningless thing to have.  When I'm traveling, I give zero fucks how many residents live in the town where my gas station or restaurant or motel is located.  Heck, some of my usual stops are at exits where there's no town at all, while others are in large cities.

On the other hand, while I too give zero fucks about the number of residents, I would like to know whether those services are available or I will be wasting my time exiting if I am specifically looking for one of them.  It's more likely their presence will be a given in a larger community.

Count me in as someone else who gives no fucks about the population of a town. While I can deal with no number duplications when assigning routes, I feel that number should've been doubled to 10,000 if they insist on population caps. Fortunately, though, there are many billboards that will tell you which exit to take if you want to access a certain business, which I like to see anyway.

Heh, that reminds me that there are a lot of folks in the hobby that are anti-billboard.  Talk about something that "I" don't understand.

[Scott5114]

Heh, that reminds me that there are a lot of folks in the hobby that are anti-billboard.  Talk about something that "I" don't understand.

Advertising is panhandling for rich people.

[kphoger]

Yeah, I didn't know anyone actually liked billboards.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, I didn't know anyone actually liked billboards.

I don't have a particular feeling on them per se.  I find it often easier to look for billboards when I want to stop versus fumbling around with my phone to look.

My wife doesn't like being interrupted from her games and videos.  That usually leaves billboards and giant business marques as the next best options.