Orange County?

[Riverside Frwy]

What is soooo special about Orange County out here in California?

I just looked up the Caltrans districts, and OC has it's own district while everyone has to share!  

Also, so how can OC afford to repave the entire length of the California 55 freeway, and their HOV lanes have those nice get in-n-out when you want Northern California types instead of the standard HOV lane design double orange line with fixed entry and exit points?  

[Chris]

Orange County has a population of over 3 million. There are nineteen states with a lower population than that, so I guess that's why Caltrans has a separate district for the O.C.

[agentsteel53]

how can OC afford to repave the entire length of the California 55 freeway, and their HOV lanes have those nice get in-n-out when you want Northern California types instead of the standard HOV lane design double orange line with fixed entry and exit points?  

I would imagine they are using the toll road revenue to pay for the 55.  As for the HOV lanes; I've never seen the point to the general LA area's limited access rights.  But it does beat having an entire Jersey barrier separating the HOV lane from the rest of the road... I like to know that if something goes pear-shaped in front of me, I can bail out to the right easily. 

[myosh_tino]

Also, so how can OC afford to repave the entire length of the California 55 freeway, and their HOV lanes have those nice get in-n-out when you want Northern California types instead of the standard HOV lane design double orange line with fixed entry and exit points?  

The "open access" carpool lanes that we have up here in Northern California have been debated for years.  Some say it's convenient to be able to get in or get out whenever you want but other say it's a hazard because cars can dive in or dive out suddenly which leads to accidents.

It looks like the era of "Open Access" carpool lanes are slowly coming to a close as we start converting carpool/HOV lanes to HOT/Express/Smart lanes.  There are two such projects under construction in the S.F. Bay Area.  One is the southbound I-680 HOV lane between CA-84 and CA-237 which should be completed by 2010.  The other is I-580 through the Livermore valley.  In both cases, the HOT lane will have designated entry and exit points so the appropriate tolls can be charged.  There is talk in Santa Clara County of converting the CA-85, CA-87 and US 101 HOV lanes to HOT/Express lanes but I do not know when (or if) the conversion will happen.

[agentsteel53]

The "open access" carpool lanes that we have up here in Northern California have been debated for years.  Some say it's convenient to be able to get in or get out whenever you want but other say it's a hazard because cars can dive in or dive out suddenly which leads to accidents.

in what way are the lane changes more sudden than if it were a standard merge featuring a non-restricted #1 lane?  is it because people tend to be (in good road conditions) driving faster in the leftmost unregulated lane than in the carpool lane, so people move - counterintuitively - to their right into a faster lane?

[xonhulu]

Orange County has a population of over 3 million. There are nineteen states with a lower population than that, so I guess that's why Caltrans has a separate district for the O.C.

O.k., but neighboring Los Angeles County has a population of about 10 million, yet still has to share a district with Ventura County.

[myosh_tino]

The "open access" carpool lanes that we have up here in Northern California have been debated for years.  Some say it's convenient to be able to get in or get out whenever you want but other say it's a hazard because cars can dive in or dive out suddenly which leads to accidents.

in what way are the lane changes more sudden than if it were a standard merge featuring a non-restricted #1 lane?  is it because people tend to be (in good road conditions) driving faster in the leftmost unregulated lane than in the carpool lane, so people move - counterintuitively - to their right into a faster lane?

The sudden movements occur during commute times when the mixed flow lanes move at a much slower speed than the carpool lane.  Picture yourself driving the the carpool lane (with the required number of passengers to make your use of the lane legal) at 65 MPH while traffic in the mixed flow lanes is bumper-to-bumper.  With open-access carpool lanes, a car can suddenly enter the carpool lane at any point at, say, 10 MPH which would force you to slam on your breaks to keep from plowing into the merging car.

[Riverside Frwy]

The "open access" carpool lanes that we have up here in Northern California have been debated for years.  Some say it's convenient to be able to get in or get out whenever you want but other say it's a hazard because cars can dive in or dive out suddenly which leads to accidents.

in what way are the lane changes more sudden than if it were a standard merge featuring a non-restricted #1 lane?  is it because people tend to be (in good road conditions) driving faster in the leftmost unregulated lane than in the carpool lane, so people move - counterintuitively - to their right into a faster lane?

The sudden movements occur during commute times when the mixed flow lanes move at a much slower speed than the carpool lane.  Picture yourself driving the the carpool lane (with the required number of passengers to make your use of the lane legal) at 65 MPH while traffic in the mixed flow lanes is bumper-to-bumper.  With open-access carpool lanes, a car can suddenly enter the carpool lane at any point at, say, 10 MPH which would force you to slam on your breaks to keep from plowing into the merging car.

You're right, because I know that when it gets bad on Interstate 605, the fixed entry and exit points give you a heads up to "slow-down" as more cars might jump-in at slow speeds. I definitely notice that people slow down at the entry/exit points on the HOV lane.

EDIT: Please notice this map of the Caltrans districts: http://www.dot.ca.gov/localoffice.htm

Notice how everyone else has to share districts(included major counties like Los Angeles) while tiny-Orange County gets it's own District 12.That's not fair at all.(The number is bigger than the county on the map!)

[Brandon]

One word regarding this: politics.  It looks like Orange County had enough clout in Sacramento to get its own district.  According to the map, it should either share with LA or San Bernadino.  Most likely LA.

[mapman]

One word regarding this: politics.  It looks like Orange County had enough clout in Sacramento to get its own district.  According to the map, it should either share with LA or San Bernadino.  Most likely LA.

Orange County was once within the same Caltrans district as LA and Ventura Counties.  Not sure when it split away.

[njroadhorse]

One word regarding this: politics.  It looks like Orange County had enough clout in Sacramento to get its own district.  According to the map, it should either share with LA or San Bernadino.  Most likely LA.

Orange County was once within the same Caltrans district as LA and Ventura Counties.  Not sure when it split away.

Perhaps too much to cover in one area, or that Orange County was in the process of getting new toll roads, which LA or Ventura Counties did not have.

[J N Winkler]

Orange County became its own district in the late 1980's--I think either 1987 or 1988.  I think it may have had something to do with design workload, since the freeway network in what is now District 7 had reached buildout (except for I-105) by about 1980, while there was a lot left to do in OC.

Quite a bit of construction on the untolled freeway network in Caltrans Districts 8 and 12 is performed not by Caltrans, but rather by county engineering departments and regional measure agencies like OCTA, and then accepted by Caltrans through its Office of Special Funded Projects.  And of course the TCA, which is independent of Caltrans, handles toll road work in OC.

In general, there is no leveling of population or even funding across Caltrans districts.  Districts 1 and 2 are so sparsely populated, for example, that they share a design center with District 3 (Sacramento & environs).  Districts 5, 9, and 10 are not really metropolitan districts either.

[Bickendan]

The "open access" carpool lanes that we have up here in Northern California have been debated for years.  Some say it's convenient to be able to get in or get out whenever you want but other say it's a hazard because cars can dive in or dive out suddenly which leads to accidents.

in what way are the lane changes more sudden than if it were a standard merge featuring a non-restricted #1 lane?  is it because people tend to be (in good road conditions) driving faster in the leftmost unregulated lane than in the carpool lane, so people move - counterintuitively - to their right into a faster lane?

The sudden movements occur during commute times when the mixed flow lanes move at a much slower speed than the carpool lane.  Picture yourself driving the the carpool lane (with the required number of passengers to make your use of the lane legal) at 65 MPH while traffic in the mixed flow lanes is bumper-to-bumper.  With open-access carpool lanes, a car can suddenly enter the carpool lane at any point at, say, 10 MPH which would force you to slam on your breaks to keep from plowing into the merging car.

This is exactly what happened to me on the 403 in Mississagua. After a long all-night drive on the Thruway and wrapping around the lake on the QEW, my friend and I hit Toronto's morning rush hour going into town. The mainlines were jammed, but the carpool lane was moving about 110 or so, so I squeezed through the mainlines and waited for a clear spot in the carpool, and just floored it.

Moments later, blowing by some mounties in the median, I had to slam on the brakes and lay into the horn as the carpool lane came to a dead stop -- a mountie busted some driver for violating the carpool occupancy minimum, and they were trying to get back in the mainline to get to the shoulder. I had three choices: Give the median a new paint-job, give the car in front of me a new paint job, or hope I could squeeze in between the mainline and carpool lane. I got lucky.

[roadfro]

Also, so how can OC afford to repave the entire length of the California 55 freeway, and their HOV lanes have those nice get in-n-out when you want Northern California types instead of the standard HOV lane design double orange line with fixed entry and exit points?  

Actually, the barrier/buffer separated HOV lanes are a bit better, in my opinion. It considerably reduces the lane change maneuvers to specific entry and exit points instead of the entire length of the lane.  Having weaving reduced to specific locations helps increase the saturation flow and ultimately achieves higher capacity.  The concept is similar to collector/distributor roads, which separate major closely-spaced weaving maneuvers from mainline traffic in order to lessen the turbulence on the mainline.

Incidentally, the double yellow lines used to form the buffer area in So Cal HOV lanes is incorrect--double white line should be used.  Yellow should not be used to separate traffic moving in the same direction, except in the case of reversible lanes.

[rschen7754]

That being said, Orange County may have the best roads in Southern California - notice the contrast on I-5 when crossing the Orange / Los Angeles county line.

[Riverside Frwy]

That being said, Orange County may have the best roads in Southern California - notice the contrast on I-5 when crossing the Orange / Los Angeles county line.

Their toll roads almost look European Motorway good, and like I said they just repaved the California 55 Freeway and put open-access HOV lanes on it too.

[citrus]

Orange County is rich rich rich so they get special treatment from Sacramento.
They also are much more politically conservative than LA or Ventura counties, so they have a vested interest in being as separate as possible.

[Desert Man]

To revive the topic on the O.C. highway or freeway systems, their toll road "FastTrak" system is a recent experiment out West while the Toll-Turnpike trend was already common in the East coast. Commuters whom use the FastTrak carpool route can purchase a ticket online and use it smoothly.

[jrouse]

What is soooo special about Orange County out here in California?

I just looked up the Caltrans districts, and OC has it's own district while everyone has to share! 

Also, so how can OC afford to repave the entire length of the California 55 freeway, and their HOV lanes have those nice get in-n-out when you want Northern California types instead of the standard HOV lane design double orange line with fixed entry and exit points? 

Just happened to come across this thread while doing another Google search.  As others have pointed out, what is now District 12 was split in the mid-80s from District 7 for the reasons previously stated, but also due to concerns raised by Orange County politicians that Los Angeles and Ventura Counties were getting too much of the focus from district management.  A similar argument has recently been raised by officials in Santa Clara County regarding District 4, based in Oakland.  They have raised the idea of having their own district, or perhaps a satellite office.

As for the continuous access HOV lanes, that was something that was initiated by the Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA). They wanted to test out continuous access to see if it provided a better level of service for HOV users.  Some concern had been raised about congestion issues related to limited access.  They got approval to do a demonstration on the State Route 22 freeway, which was being widened at that time.  That project (a design-build project being run by OCTA) was going to include a limited access HOV lane in each direction, separated from the rest of the freeway lanes by a 4-foot buffer.  Instead the plans were revised to make it continuous access. 

Follow up studies showed improved performance and that motorists liked the flexibility of getting in and out whenever they desired.  So OCTA then decided to apply the continuous access concept to all remaining HOV facilities in Orange County.  The only exceptions were the 91 Express Toll Lanes, and the barrier-separated portions of Interstate 5.  Slowly but surely they are converting other sections of freeway.  State Route 55 is done, as is about half of State Route 57.  I-405 between I-605 and State Route 73 is being considered for HOT lanes, so plans to convert that section are on hold, but the portion south of Route 73 will eventually be converted.   

UC Berkeley and UC Irvine are conducting operational analyses of one of the converted corridors to see how it performs before and after conversion, as part of a series of research projects that are comparing continuous access and limited access HOV facilities.

The transportation planning agencies in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties also decided to follow suit with OCTA and are working with Caltrans District 8 to convert limited access HOV lanes in their jurisdictions to continuous access.  A couple of these projects have already been completed - one on I-215 in Riverside, and one on State Route 60 in Moreno Valley, which also converted the lane from full-time operation to part-time.

So the question remains - what about Los Angeles County?  I am not sure what will happen there.  Their regional transportation planning agency (Metro) is now headed by Art Leahy, the former CEO at OCTA, who was in charge there when they began considering continuous access.  And the current CEO at OCTA is former Caltrans director Will Kempton, who was a supporter of continuous access.  Leahy may eventually bring the concept to Los Angeles County.  I know sometime back Metro was putting some feelers out to OCTA about the conversion.  Some former Caltrans District 7 leaders are working in high level management positions at Metro now, and I know from personal conversation with one of them that he was opposed to continuous access. Depending on how much influence he may have, it's hard to say how long it may take for the concept to make its way into District 7, or if it ever will.

[myosh_tino]

As for the continuous access HOV lanes, that was something that was initiated by the Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA). They wanted to test out continuous access to see if it provided a better level of service for HOV users.  Some concern had been raised about congestion issues related to limited access.  They got approval to do a demonstration on the State Route 22 freeway, which was being widened at that time.  That project (a design-build project being run by OCTA) was going to include a limited access HOV lane in each direction, separated from the rest of the freeway lanes by a 4-foot buffer.  Instead the plans were revised to make it continuous access.  

Follow up studies showed improved performance and that motorists liked the flexibility of getting in and out whenever they desired.  So OCTA then decided to apply the continuous access concept to all remaining HOV facilities in Orange County.  The only exceptions were the 91 Express Toll Lanes, and the barrier-separated portions of Interstate 5.  Slowly but surely they are converting other sections of freeway.  State Route 55 is done, as is about half of State Route 57.  I-405 between I-605 and State Route 73 is being considered for HOT lanes, so plans to convert that section are on hold, but the portion south of Route 73 will eventually be converted.  

...

The transportation planning agencies in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties also decided to follow suit with OCTA and are working with Caltrans District 8 to convert limited access HOV lanes in their jurisdictions to continuous access.  A couple of these projects have already been completed - one on I-215 in Riverside, and one on State Route 60 in Moreno Valley, which also converted the lane from full-time operation to part-time.

Joe, thanks for providing some insight on how District 12 was created and do hope Santa Clara County is successful in pushing for more attention from District 4.  I also find it absolutely fascinating that a significant portion of southern California is converting to continuous-access HOV lanes but at the same time certain HOV lanes up here in northern California are being converted into limited access lanes because they are being converted into HOT or Express Lanes (southbound I-680 right now, I-580, CA-85 and US-101 in the future).