The Clearview thread

[J N Winkler]

Jake--I think you may be right about Stimsonite being the brand name for AGA's letter-frame button copy (I am going by memory here, and it's a bit hazy since it's been years since I've looked at button copy history in any detail).  The way I understand it, AGA's traffic-related product lines were taken over by Avery-Dennison, while the rest of AGA was absorbed into the Linde group.

http://www.us.lindegas.com/international/web/lg/us/likelgus30.nsf/docbyalias/nav_history#2

I am not sure how AGA got into traffic appliances in the first place.  Its parent company was Swedish and its first big product was a valve to prevent day-burning of acetylene gas (which was then very expensive) in lighthouses.

Edit:  These Wikipedia articles are also helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustaf_Dal%C3%A9n

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGA_AB

Especially in England, AGA is famous for a type of cooker, called the "Aga stove," which has given its name to the "Aga saga" genre of fiction, exemplified by Joanna Trollope's novels.  So that is your connection between demountable button copy and English upper-class country life in three easy steps.

[agentsteel53]

I believe the connection from acetylene lighthouse lamps to traffic control devices is this traffic signal, which, indeed, has an acetylene lamp inside:

[J N Winkler]

New Clearview adopter:  Alaska DOT.  Currently advertised contracts 52095 and 52491 have pattern-accurate sign layout and sign summary sheets showing Clearview signs (Alaska DOT, it seems, does not do sign design sheets).

Edit:  I am a dolt:  I did not check the proposals books first.  Alaska DOT buries the sign designs there:  one design per page.

[agentsteel53]

I could've sworn I saw Clearview in Alaska in March.  Maybe I was just making that up?

[J N Winkler]

Alaska DOT maintenance forces could very well have been putting up Clearview signs for months.  This is, however, the first time I have seen them advertise pattern-accurate contract signing plans with Clearview.  I have actually not been keeping a close eye on Alaska DOT since their construction plans have tended not to interest me (they do a lot of 3R work with little signing), but now that I have found these two (and counted 19 sign design sheets in one job), I am going to try to go back in time and see what else I missed.

P.S.  These jobs are funded with IM money because the Glenn and Seward Highways count as Interstates:  90% federal, 10% state for non-freeways.  That's your tax dollars at work, folks.

[J N Winkler]

Specimens of Clearview in Alaska, as shown on sign design sheets taken from the proposal books:

*  Roundabout diagrammatic (for the Dowling Road teardrop roundabouts off the New Seward Highway)



*  Freeway exit direction sign (New Seward Highway)



*  Route confirmatory (distance) signs (one on the Glenn Highway, the other on the Seward Highway)





*  Touristic/recreational interest "pointy sign"



These sign drawings are fairly typical of GuidSIGN output.

[Scott5114]

That roundabout sign leaves something to be desired. I find it somewhat difficult to pick out the blocks of legend.

[jemacedo9]

...just a quick comment, there have been a good number of BGS sign replacements in the Rochester NY area (mainly NY 390 and I-390), and I-390 and I-86 in the Southern Tier, mainly summer of '09, with some this year.  in all cases, Clearview was NOT used.  Orig Highway fonts were used, and as a bonus, County Route shields were added where appropriate!

[Alex]

Clearview numbers have appeared in Kansas. Jeff Royston pic.

[agentsteel53]

I have seen those elsewhere.  It was a distance sign with a little tiny shield.  The shield had a clearview number.  It may have been on the Turnpike.

[Scott5114]

KTA seems to use Clearview on new signage now. KDOT does not. Of course, KDOT has always been the agency with better taste (they just posted a bunch of 1957 spec I-35 shields...)

[J N Winkler]

That Exit 71 sign makes me wonder where I left my shoulder-fired recoilless rifle.

[Scott5114]

Upon closer inspection, the shields are 2-digit shields scaled to 3-digit width. The petals are distorted....

[shadyjay]

Clearview numbers have appeared in Kansas. Jeff Royston pic.

Is it me or is that sign quite a ways off the pavement, compared to the blue sign in the distance?

[J N Winkler]

I think they are the same distance from the back edge of the shoulder--both the advance guide sign and the services sign are in the unmowed portion of the right-of-way.  Neither sign has guardrail protection, so I think the KTA has gone for the standard rural Interstate belt-and-braces solution of using breakaway posts located well outside the clear zone (which for a 70 MPH design speed begins at the edge of the traveled way and runs for 30' to the side).

I am also 95% sure this sign was fabricated in KTA's own sign shop and installed by a KTA sign crew, rather than being designed by HNTB--which does all of KTA's contract plans for construction--and being installed by a contractor.  Years ago I visited the KTA's offices in Wichita in an attempt to get complete construction plans for Turnpike signing.  I was not successful, but I did learn that the KTA uses Flexisign for its in-house sign design work, as opposed to SignCAD (which HNTB uses for KTA work and which is also KDOT's standard sign design package) or GuidSIGN (SignCAD's principal competitor, which is the Oklahoma DOT standard).  Unlike SignCAD and GuidSIGN, Flexisign is a general sign design package which is not oriented specifically toward traffic sign design and is also used for business signs, etc.

I know that KTA stretches the two-digit Interstate shield for three-digit use.  As Scott notes, the same has been done to the two-digit Kansas route marker on this sign.  It wouldn't surprise me to discover that KTA also stretches the two-digit US route marker.  I think this happens because they don't have three-digit route markers in their Flexisign toolset and they just don't care enough to use the correct three-digit route markers.

[Quillz]

Clearview numbers have appeared in Kansas. Jeff Royston pic.

I really don't think the sign looks bad at all. But aren't these signs technically not allowed, as Clearview hasn't yet been approved for negative contrast signs (black text against non-white backgrounds?)

[Quillz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46fb_hn6yE

A short video I found about Clearview, and how it will (supposedly) eventually replace all FHWA Series signs.

It seems to focus mostly on the letters, though. I don't think they even mention the numerals once, leading me to believe the research has shown the numerals aren't any more or less distinguishable than the old FHWA Series numerals.

EDIT: And here's a more technical one about Clearview, specifically regarding its use in the state of Arizona...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cccHKs7fSyQ

[J N Winkler]

Regarding Arizona, I think there is at least the possibility of a Clearview backlash unfolding on Arizona DOT infrastructure.  The plans I have seen for recent sign rehabilitations have called for Series E Modified digits to be substituted for Clearview digits in distance expressions on advance guide and interchange sequence signs, but not in exit numbers and not on post-interchange confirmation (distance) signs.  The governing principle appears to be that if the technical possibility exists that the expression might contain a fraction, the digits will appear in Series E Modified rather than Clearview.

Richard Moeur, a former MTR regular and Arizona DOT traffic engineer who manages many of their guide sign rehabilitations, has given a presentation on the difficulties of composing fraction rectangles correctly in SignCAD when Clearview is used.  By default (according to his presentation) SignCAD makes the fraction digits too small; the solution Moeur recommended was to develop SignCAD templates for fraction rectangles in Clearview, and in advance of that, to build the fraction rectangles manually rather than using the built-in shortcuts SignCAD offers for fraction rectangle assembly.  This was some time ago, however, and Arizona DOT has had plenty of time to develop and disseminate new fraction templates.  My guess (and at this point it is only a guess) is that the reversion to Series E Modified for distance expressions is deliberate and is based on a conclusion that Clearview digits are inherently less legible than Series E Modified digits, not just harder to make up at the correct sizes in SignCAD.

[agentsteel53]

Regarding Arizona, I think there is at least the possibility of a Clearview backlash unfolding on Arizona DOT infrastructure.  The plans I have seen for recent sign rehabilitations have called for Series E Modified digits to be substituted for Clearview digits in distance expressions on advance guide and interchange sequence signs, but not in exit numbers and not on post-interchange confirmation (distance) signs. 

I have seen such signs in the field.  We thought it was just an error, but apparently this is deliberate?

[J N Winkler]

Where exactly have you seen these signs?  (I ask because in Arizona I can no longer correlate sign installation with a construction contract award for sign rehabilitation.  For some reason which is not yet clear to me, ADOT has started carrying out sign replacement work through procurement contracts.)

The possibility that it might be an error did cross my mind, but I have seen multiple plan sets with this treatment and it is a pretty consistently followed rule that if a distance expression can have a fraction in it, it will appear in Series E Modified.

[agentsteel53]

Where exactly have you seen these signs?

I believe it was I-10 westbound between Tucson and Phoenix.  Close to Phoenix from what I recall.

[J N Winkler]

Hmm, this is interesting.  AFAIK, there haven't been any sign replacement jobs scheduled for I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix.  The closest I remember is 3rd St.-Ray Rd. (done by 2005).  Willcox-New Mexico state line was done as a procurement contract in 2007 or 2008, so I wonder if Tucson-Phoenix was done in a separate procurement contract between then and now.

[Roadsign199qc]

"Homer"? How about a "Simpson"? (laughs)

[deathtopumpkins]

"Homer"? How about a "Simpson"? (laughs)

What? 

[Roadsign199qc]

In the sign at the top of the page.