Street Blade Signs Changing (All Uppercase > Mixed Case)?

[Scott5114]

An illustration of roadfro's post:

[J N Winkler]

What Roadfro is referring to are Tinker and Patterson's findings, published in a 1942 issue of the Journal of Applied Psychology and based on a comparison of mixed-case and all-uppercase type in newspaper headlines.  Later research, including the Forbes and Moskowitz paper of 1950 and elements of the (UK) Road Research Laboratory's research program in the late 1950's and early 1960's, focused on the possibility of using mixed-case lettering at a larger type size in order to make more efficient use of the same sign panel area compared to all-uppercase legend.

The findings have generally been mixed.  Forbes and Moskowitz, for example, found a slight but not commanding advantage to using mixed-case legend.  RRL found that, under controlled and highly artificial test conditions, a serif all-uppercase typeface--the Kindersley typeface, which is now very commonly used on street name signs in the UK--actually had 3% better legibility than the Kinneir typeface (later called Transport Medium) which had just been developed for motorway direction signs.

For this reason, when I was commenting on what eventually became the 2003 MUTCD, I did not take a stand on whether mixed-case legend should be allowed as an option on conventional-road guide signs.  What I did argue was that a minimum floor should be put on the legibility, e.g. by banning the use of mixed-case alphabet series other than Series E Modified.  FHWA chose to reject this suggestion on the basis that agencies would apply engineering judgment appropriately to devise signs which were adequately legible at reasonable cost.  We will see how this works out in practice with lots of miserly county public works departments using mixed-case Series B on street name blades.

[agentsteel53]

We will see how this works out in practice with lots of miserly county public works departments using mixed-case Series B on street name blades.

I don't think "miserly" is quite the right adjective to describe a DPW that takes Series B and stretches it to Series C when they need Series C.  Given that the fonts are available for sale as a set (i.e. you can't pay half-price and get only half the series), I think the word we are looking for is "incompetent".

[froggie]

For those interested, Ray LaHood wrote a blog post on the subject this morning...

[US71]

For those interested, Ray LaHood wrote a blog post on the subject this morning...

I saw that. He proposes eliminating the law. Maybe it can be modified to new and replacement installations?

[Anthony_JK]

Personally, I wouldn't mind at all changing street blades to mixed case...especially if they also decided to have larger communities also put in street block numbers along with it.

Most larger cities in Louisiana (Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Lake Charles, Shreveport) already do this.  Lafayette still uses uppercase for their blades, with the exception of downtown (where they also use French titles, due to their Cajun French heritage there).

Probably, they should exempt smaller cities and communities from being forced to opt in until they find a suitable funding mode for the conversion...but the larger cities should have no issue.

As long as they're not in Clearview, that is... ;-P


Anthony

[mightyace]

For a practical reason, I'd like to see a change to standardized street signs.  (The exact standard doesn't matter as much to me.)

In Franklin, TN; I've counted at least a half dozen different styles of street signs in the city.  (Eventually, I'll be posting examples on flickr.)  Many of these are put up by developers of a subdivision.

[Duke87]

I dunno, I see a valid function served by not having street signs universally standardized: you know you've crossed a municipal boundary when the street signs change.

As for different standards within the same town... yeah, we've got that problem right here in Stamford. Most of it is simply a mix of different ages: our newer signs (ca. 2000 onward) are fully compliant with modern reflectivity and mixed case guidelines, but plenty of older ones which comply with neither persist. Add in a few specimens of even older specs still kicking, along with a couple of "beta version" experimental variants on the current design, and you have a mishmosh.
Of course, there is also some internal consistency even in the same time period. All the old signs around downtown are a different standard from those elsewhere in town. And the signs being posted on new signal mast arms (which are backlit!) are different still.

Street signs for private roads conform to no standard whatsoever, but that's to be expected.

[NE2]

Where can I see the new standard? Does it allow for e.g. city logos on the side?

[Michael in Philly]

I dunno, I see a valid function served by not having street signs universally standardized: you know you've crossed a municipal boundary when the street signs change.

As for different standards within the same town... yeah, we've got that problem right here in Stamford. Most of it is simply a mix of different ages: our newer signs (ca. 2000 onward) are fully compliant with modern reflectivity and mixed case guidelines, but plenty of older ones which comply with neither persist. Add in a few specimens of even older specs still kicking, along with a couple of "beta version" experimental variants on the current design, and you have a mishmosh.
Of course, there is also some internal consistency even in the same time period. All the old signs around downtown are a different standard from those elsewhere in town. And the signs being posted on new signal mast arms (which are backlit!) are different still.

Street signs for private roads conform to no standard whatsoever, but that's to be expected.

I've never been a fan of uniformity for its own sake.  And I see no reason for the City of Philadelphia to change its distinctive and not-illegible street signs.  Like the one here (found through Google Images) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdorn/sets/72057594096070112/ .
The format is recognizable enough to locals for it to have been used in other locations, like the ballpark:  http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n1OFAcLBXPU/RsHObpXTM4I/AAAAAAAAADs/LmVflXQ-VIc/s1600-h/Baseball+with+Mom+059.jpg (Again a Google Images blog find - I don't know these people.)

[roadfro]

Where can I see the new standard? Does it allow for e.g. city logos on the side?

It's all in the MUTCD, Chapter 2D.43. City logos are allowed on one side (left side is encouraged).

I've never been a fan of uniformity for its own sake.  And I see no reason for the City of Philadelphia to change its distinctive and not-illegible street signs.  Like the one here (found through Google Images) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdorn/sets/72057594096070112/ .

Hey, if it meets letter heights and reflectivity requirements, it'd be good. I don't think the signs would loose too much character if they were mixed case.

[froggie]

I don't see the problem with mixed case...though to be fair, I grew up in a city that has used it on streetsigns for decades...

[Android]

I grew up and learned to drive in Fort Collins, CO - a town that NEVER used lowercase on their signs anywhere.  And then the last few years they've been putting up new Clearview signs, but still in ALL CAPS as always.  (fine with me since I personally hate lowercase Clearview - plus FTC is mostly still using FHWA numbers thank God)  

I wasn't aware of this sign replacement mixed-case law until just the other day, when my Mom sent me a photo of the new steet sign they put up near their house.  It was amusing because they spelled it wrong! (she complained, they came and put up a corrected one)   At first that's all I noticed, but then it struck me, WTF?  Mixed Case?   So I did some looking around and found this thread and other stories online.  

Here's a picture of that sign, before and then the replacement misspelled sign. (too bad I can't find my high quality photo of the old sign, I always though the upside-down S was amusing, and now I'll never get another chance to take a photo of it)  I am also happy they are not using Clearview on the new sign, looks like one of those modified versions of FHWA D maybe. The S looks funny though, not like any I can remember seeing before.    

And really, I think they are both about equally legible.  




EDIT- Got a photo of the corrected sign, plus the replaced-a-few-years-ago sign from the other end of this short street...

[Alps]

I'm not a fan of the appearance of mixed case by day, but dadgummit it's 400% more legible by night.  First of all, many municipalities don't use reflective backgrounds on their street signs, but now they have to.  Second of all, the required letter sizes are a lot larger than most places are using right now.  Third of all, they're getting installed on every corner for both streets, so no more going down an unfamiliar street and not knowing where you are because there are no blades for YOUR road, just the other ones.  So all in all, I'm a big fan.

[Duke87]

In some cases signing both streets really is pointless. Any simple dead end street doesn't really need the second blade.

Think about it. Let's say you turn off of Elm Street onto Cherry Court, a short dead end street. Later, after you're done with whatever you were doing there, you go back down to the beginning of the block, leaving by the only route available... at this point if you cannot logically deduce that you are at the intersection with Elm Street without the assistance of a street sign, you are either really stupid or really forgetful.

True, such a sign would also serve as reassurance to traffic on Elm Street that they are in fact still on Elm Street, but you don't need one every block.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

In some cases signing both streets really is pointless. Any simple dead end street doesn't really need the second blade.

Think about it. Let's say you turn off of Elm Street onto Cherry Court, a short dead end street. Later, after you're done with whatever you were doing there, you go back down to the beginning of the block, leaving by the only route available... at this point if you cannot logically deduce that you are at the intersection with Elm Street without the assistance of a street sign, you are either really stupid or really forgetful.

Or drunk, stoned, or recovering from an head injury

[mightyace]

at this point if you cannot logically deduce that you are at the intersection with Elm Street without the assistance of a street sign, you are either really stupid or really forgetful.

If I am in an unfamiliar city and my business on the dead end street takes a while, I might not remember the cross street.

[BigMattFromTexas]

Ugh, the cities doin' it here in Angelo, in fact they replaced a perfectly good street sign with an ugly mixed-case Clearview sign.. I hate it.. I honestly think the UPPERCASE is more readable from a distance.. Also Clearview's an ugly font..
BigMatt

[Scott5114]

I honestly think the UPPERCASE is more readable from a distance..

Personal belief doesn't trump a scientific study showing the opposite.

[hbelkins]

Personal belief doesn't trump a scientific study showing the opposite.

Well, perhaps it IS easier for him to read the signs one way, even though a majority finds it easier to read them another way.

[nyratk1]

...

[CL]

Salt Lake City actually went the other direction. From the 1980s to around 2000 they had mixed-case Series C street blade signs. Around ten years ago they went back to all upper case Series C.  I wish I had some pictures...

[codyg1985]

The City of Huntsville has been replacing street blades on high-speed thoroughfares (read: with a speed limit greater than 40 mph) with larger signs. They are still in all caps, though, so the visibillity isn't improved by too much.

EDIT: Link to City of Huntsville Sign, Marker Blade, Post Hardware and Installation Specs

[mjb2002]

Android, the signs on the right hand side look terrific.

I am so looking forward to the day that our street signs are finally replaced with something good!

[Android]

Android, the signs on the right hand side look terrific.

I was down there the other day and found a neighborhood that had had most of its signs replaced with the new mixed case - not bad.
I took some snapshots - not the greatest lighting in late afternoon but here's some of them: