AutoWeek list of the 15 most challenging routes

[J N Winkler]

does that table extrapolate?  if not, explain why I have, on more than one occasion, gotten passed by an untrailered tractor doing 120+ down the hill.  Not Siskiyou specifically, but I-40 heading out of Flagstaff, I-15 from CA into Nevada, etc.

Short answer--no.  The sign drawing itself does not say (that information tends to be buried in a sign data table on a separate sheet), but this sign has a yellow background, so it is advisory.  Lighter vehicles are presumably subject to the regulatory speed limit on the downgrade.

Of somewhat more interest is the basis for computation of the advisory speed figures.  As far as I can tell, they embody an assumed power-to-gross-weight-rating ratio.  Power is force times speed, the force in this scenario being tare weight of the vehicle plus cargo weight.  I suspect the purpose of the speed table is to discourage trucks of the assumed power-to-GVWR ratio from approaching the start of the downslope at speeds too high for the engine to suppress further acceleration due to gravity.

[agentsteel53]

Care to identify any projects which Caltrans should not be doing?

any that involve sign replacement.  

seriously, I can see many that are of a lower priority than I-5.  Repaving I-80 through Alameda County, for instance.  The current paving is not spectacular, but to save $12.3 million dollars, I wouldn't hesitate to declare it to be at least adequate.  The ride's a bit rough, but no one is getting creamed by sudden 80mph speed differentials.  

I-5 over the Grapevine is a major transportation corridor, and its current condition (especially the Templin on-ramp) is harrowing.

I'd even close the Templin southbound on-ramp entirely.  Not sure how critical it is to the fire department - if it is so, I'd put up an "emergency vehicles only" sign.  I know I'm never taking that ramp ever again; but who's to prevent the next unsuspecting yutz from doing so when they pull off the highway to fix a flat and then figure getting back on southbound is perfectly safe.  Surprise, you're dead!

[Quillz]

I-15 through Nevada...really?!?

They are not kidding. In fact, I-15 in both Nevada and California were featured in Dangerous Drives on the Speed channel IIRC.

IIRC, they were covering I-15 between the L.A. Basin and Las Vegas and it was a holiday weekend (4th of July).  That road, high speeds, unpredictable weather and drunk holiday revelers is a very bad mix.

Anyways, #1 on that list, US 550, the Million Dollar Highway, was also featured on Dangerous Drives

Exactly. This is why CA-138 between Palmdale and Victorville is one of the most dangerous highways in the state. Even though it's almost a straight line, it's narrow, suffers from poor visibility and has many drunk driver, thus it's seen many fatalities and now requires your headlight to be on all the time.

I-15 is the same. It's the only highway between L.A. and Vegas and thus is the only route one can take, so it's often full of traffic and drunk drivers.

[J N Winkler]

any that involve sign replacement.

I actually wish they would do more sign replacements, but they have done fewer than 20 (at least by contract) in the last 10 years, and of those only four or five (not the Arroyo Seco job) qualify as major.  It looks like we can both be equally unhappy with Caltrans for different reasons.

seriously, I can see many that are of a lower priority than I-5.  Repaving I-80 through Alameda County, for instance.  The current paving is not spectacular, but to save $12.3 million, I wouldn't hesitate to declare it to be at least adequate.

It depends.  It can be highly uneconomic not to do pavement preservation before it falls apart completely.

I-5 over the Grapevine is a major transportation corridor, and its current condition (especially the Templin on-ramp) is harrowing.

I'd even close the Templin southbound on-ramp entirely.  Not sure how critical it is to the fire department - if it is so, I'd put up an "emergency vehicles only" sign.  I know I'm never taking that ramp ever again; but who's to prevent the next unsuspecting yutz from doing so when they pull off the highway to fix a flat and then figure getting back on southbound is perfectly safe.  Surprise, you're dead!

Is it really that bad?  I would expect there to be a shoulder that could be used as an extension of the ramp.

[Quillz]

The Old Road (or the Ridge Route) just north of the Templin Hwy. offramp is so bad that you can see it from the freeway. Looks like it hasn't been paved in a half century.

[agentsteel53]

I actually wish they would do more sign replacements, but they have done fewer than 20 (at least by contract) in the last 10 years, and of those only four or five (not the Arroyo Seco job) qualify as major.  It looks like we can both be equally unhappy with Caltrans for different reasons.

then why are signs vanishing left and right?  I can name hundreds of porcelain signs that have vanished in the last 10 years. 

Is it really that bad?  I would expect there to be a shoulder that could be used as an extension of the ramp.

it is really that bad.  200 feet and the jersey barrier closes in.  there is no right shoulder on that section of I-5 - they had the choice of placing either a right shoulder, or a fourth lane. 

I'd pull up a satellite view except for no discernible reason, my google maps is acting stupid and has been so for the last few months.  I think it's because I'm using 17.8 GB of gmail storage.  (Don't ask.)

[jdbx]

The situation crossing over the Tejon Pass on I-5 is exactly as awful as described here.  That is a ~40 mile stretch of roadway that I deliberately try to cross between midnight and 6 AM to avoid exactly the dangerous conditions mentioned here.  Traveling at that hour also avoids the excruciating rolling roadblocks that happen up and down I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and I-580.  The combination of a split speed limit and people who set their cruise control at 70 and then park themselves in the left lane for 200 miles is enough to make anybody's blood boil.

[Quillz]

I think this is what agentsteel is referring to: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=templin+highway+california&sll=37.09024,-112.5&sspn=55.411532,94.042969&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Templin+Hwy,+Castaic,+Los+Angeles,+California+91384&ll=34.566262,-118.685686&spn=0.001789,0.00287&t=h&z=19

You can see how the Jersey barriers are sort of oddly set up.

And here's a pic of the southbound Templin Hwy. onramp:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[agentsteel53]

I tend to avoid I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and Sacramento.  99 is pretty awful too, but at least there are some sections with six lanes each way.  Also, much more historically interesting route, and, oh yeah, more gas stations. 

and if I am heading to the Bay Area, I tend to take 101.  Ever since they pulled the traffic lights around Gilroy-ish, it's been quite a decent drive.  (But, like with the I-5 Templin on-ramp, there are some places where you do not want to re-enter the freeway without a Ferrari.)

[Quillz]

I was on 99 a few weeks back and almost the entire portion from Wheeler Ridge to at least CA-198 is six lanes and lets you go 70 now, they've clearly made a lot of improvements in preparation for Interstate designation. The segment through Bakersfield is still 55, though.

[agentsteel53]

I was on 99 a few weeks back and almost the entire portion from Wheeler Ridge to at least CA-198 is six lanes and lets you go 70 now, they've clearly made a lot of improvements in preparation for Interstate designation. The segment through Bakersfield is still 55, though.

I think there's a few two-lane sections as far south as Earlimart or so, no?  Maybe just in one direction.  Southbound I remember coming upon a surprising number of two-lane sections in September or so.

also, the southernmost porcelain sign on 99 is now somewhere around the 140, I believe.  (And Mr. Winkler claims California has had maybe 10 signage replacements in the last 10 years!  Apparently single projects have scopes of "everything on 99 must go".)

[J N Winkler]

then why are signs vanishing left and right?  I can name hundreds of porcelain signs that have vanished in the last 10 years.

Some of the contracts have been fairly large.  For example, there was one contract which changed out a lot of (perhaps the majority?) of freeway guide signs in San Mateo County.  There were a couple in District 8 (Riverside and San Bernardino counties) which cleaned out the desert parts of I-10, I-15, and I-40.  Reaching way back in time, there was a job in 2002 or 2003 which changed out a lot of the guide signs on I-5 and I-805 in District 11.  Plus I think there has been one fairly large job in District 5.

To go in depth on just one example:  one of the District 8 contracts had 38 sign panel design sheets with 4 signs shown on most sheets.  That's approximately 150 signs right there.

Even then Caltrans is parsimonious.  The typical Arizona DOT guide sign rehabilitation contract has 50 sign design sheets, with more than four sign designs on about one-third of the sheets, and Arizona DOT averages out at two sign rehabilitations per year for a much smaller total mileage of freeway.  I have seen multiple TxDOT sign rehabilitation contracts with over 100 sign design sheets.

In regard to the signs on SR 99, I have been told that District 6 opted to do most of its sign replacements in-house instead of advertising them for construction.  My source for this information had to obtain the drawings for them on paper (they were not electronically available).

it is really that bad.  200 feet and the jersey barrier closes in.  there is no right shoulder on that section of I-5 - they had the choice of placing either a right shoulder, or a fourth lane.

Might it have been fixed in the recent past?

[myosh_tino]

Some of the contracts have been fairly large.  For example, there was one contract which changed out a lot of (perhaps the majority?) of freeway guide signs in San Mateo County. 

Yup, yup, yup!  A couple of years ago, all guide signs on I-280 and CA-92 and most signs on US 101 within San Mateo County were replaced with new reflective ones that included an exit number.  IIRC, there are a handful of signs on 101 up by the San Francisco airport that were not replaced.

In Santa Clara county, most of the old "butterfly" sign trusses were replaced with new trusses that were located on the right shoulder of the freeway.  I suspect this was done to clean up the gore points and improve safety on the freeway (not a good idea to have a substantial pole supporting an overhead sign structure in the gore point).  Unfortunately that meant the loss of an outline US 101 shield on I-880 northbound at the First Street exit in San Jose and the loss of another outline US 101 shield on 101 northbound at the San Antonio Road exit in Palo Alto.

I also believe there was a major sign replacement project on I-580 from Oakland south to Castro Valley.  I do remember there being a high number of butterfly trusses along that stretch of freeway so that could have been the reason for the sign replacement.

[thenetwork]

I've driven the top 3 (and a total of 6 on the list) and lived to tell about it.  As I have always told people, If you have driven in Los Angeles, Chicago & Toronto without a scratch, than you are ready for anything!