Manual transmission vs. Automatic

[realjd]

- drivers of automatics (which describes pretty much everyone around here) seem to have a nasty habit of never using the parking brake. The thinking being that just putting the car in "P" is good enough, even if you're parked on a hill. The risk being taken is small, granted, but it's stupid and unnecessary. It's just one of those things. (nobody ever turns their wheels to the curb, either...)

The only two circumstances I always use the parking brake are if I'm parked on a steep hill and if I'm parked on the street (even if it's flat). If I'm parked on the street without the parking brake, all it can take is one small tap from behind and the parking gear is stripped. That's an expensive repair.

From what I've noticed, automatic-only drivers really don't use neutral at all either. When I'm stopped at a light, even in an automatic, on a flat surface I'll usually shift to neutral and let off the brake to save on brake/transmission wear (not saying that it's bad that most people don't do it- it is an extra step that adds very little gain). That's a habit that I feel like came from driving a stick

Once the car is stopped, holding the brake down won't cause it to wear any more quickly. And the torque converter means that for an automatic in idle, if it's in drive it's stationary; if it's in neutral, the transmission is spinning. Leaving the automatic in neutral ADDS wear to the transmission.

[mightyace]

I've never driven a full manual.

Early in my driving career, I did drive a '68 VW Bug with an automatic clutch.  It still had a shift lever, but, instead of a clutch pedal, you pressed down on the stick when shifting to engage the clutch.

For me, a manual transmission does not appeal to me, having to think to coordinate the clutch and shifting would take my concentration off the road.  And, as someone who has a limited ability to multitask, I like to keep my focus on the road, thank you.

As I've already said, these are strictly personal preferences and I don't think either automatic or manual is inherently better than the other overall.  In certain situations, that's another story.

My brother is someone who is equally at home with automatic and manual transmissions.  Even with his performance cars (Mustangs and Thunderbirds) he has had both auto and manual versions of both and can do well in either.  Though, I think he still prefers manual in a performance car and automatic otherwise.

[corco]

Once the car is stopped, holding the brake down won't cause it to wear any more quickly. And the torque converter means that for an automatic in idle, if it's in drive it's stationary; if it's in neutral, the transmission is spinning. Leaving the automatic in neutral ADDS wear to the transmission.

Wait, really? My thought was always that if I let my foot off the brake on a car in drive, it rolls forward at low power. It seems to me that hitting the brake is restraining the car from going that low speed and therefore puts (very) minor wear on the brake.
Although if what you say about torque converters is true (and I have absolutely no reason to doubt you) it sounds like the tradeoff is worse for the transmission anyway.  Heh, I'll stop throwing it in neutral for short periods of time then.

[Chris]

For me, a manual transmission does not appeal to me, having to think to coordinate the clutch and shifting would take my concentration off the road.  And, as someone who has a limited ability to multitask, I like to keep my focus on the road, thank you

If you're used to it, it becomes second nature. I think most people who drive automatic don't like manual because they never really learned how to drive it, maybe tried it two or three times and it didn't work out. That is also why driving lessons in Europe are considerably more extensive. Everybody's supposed to be able to drive a manual car, though exceptions can be made. For me driving a manual car is just like walking up the stairs or riding a bike. You do it without really thinking about what you're doing.

[mightyace]

^^^

Well, I drove that auto-clutch bug nearly every day for two years, and, while it became easier, I always had to think about shifting.

[J N Winkler]

Wait, really? My thought was always that if I let my foot off the brake on a car in drive, it rolls forward at low power. It seems to me that hitting the brake is restraining the car from going that low speed and therefore puts (very) minor wear on the brake.

No.  The only relevant consideration is wear on the transmission since the brakes don't actually wear unless the discs or drums are moving in relation to the pads (brakes work by friction), which happens only if the car is actually moving.  I was under the impression that in most automatic cars, putting the transmission in neutral disengages a drivetrain clutch either before or after the torque converter, so the converter isn't actually spinning when the car is in neutral.

The main reason I put the car in neutral and turn the engine off for extended waits is to save fuel.

One other thing people commonly do that is not terribly bright with manuals, but is downright dumb with automatics, is to tow a car in neutral at freeway speeds with drive wheels down.  When this happens everything in the automatic transmission behind the torque converter is being driven by the wheels and the wear on those components is immense at speeds above 35 MPH.

[mightyace]

^^^

While this is generally true, there are exceptions.

The owner's manual from my old 1994 Saturn SL1 sedan say that it's OK to tow it in neutral with all wheels down.

[realjd]

I was under the impression that in most automatic cars, putting the transmission in neutral disengages a drivetrain clutch either before or after the torque converter, so the converter isn't actually spinning when the car is in neutral.

I thought the disconnection for neutral was inside the transmission - it disengaged the gears so that the input shaft wasn't connected to the output shaft. In that case, the torque converter would be driving part of the transmission. If you're just holding the brakes on while in drive, the output shaft of the transmission is locked to the wheels (i.e. stopped), so the torque converter spins without turning the tranny at all.

Wait, really? My thought was always that if I let my foot off the brake on a car in drive, it rolls forward at low power.

That's true. You can think of a torque converter as a pump and an old-time water wheel. The engine drives the pump which sends liquid over the water wheel connected to the output shaft, which is then connected to the transmission. When the car is stopped, the brakes hold the wheels still, which holds the transmission still, which holds the "water wheel" still. The pump is still pumping fluid to it, but because the "water wheel" is locked, the fluid passes over it. As soon as you let up on the brakes, the "water wheel" starts turning again.

The brakes are holding the car stopped. It's the friction between the brake pads and the rotors that cause the pads to wear down. When the wheels aren't turning, there's no sliding friction between the pads and the rotors so there is no ware on the brakes.

[agentsteel53]

Down here in Tucson, I would be a bit afraid to go out if it snowed, not because I'm nervous about my own abilities but because ohdeargod how many of these people have never seen snow before.

indeed - though not quite as bad as SoCal drivers, who are hosed even in the rain.  They seem to be blissfully unaware of the need to slow down... I've been passed by people doing over 100 in heavy rain, unable to make the connection between their own behavior, and the fact that every couple miles, there's a highway patrol vehicle parked by the side of the road, with the cop peering down the ravine past the huge hole in the guardrail.

[corco]

For what it's worth, the fact that I know how to drive a stick just secured me a job wherein I will occasionally have to valet park cars (very nice cars, at that)- so take that, automatic drivers. 

[Alps]

OKAY FOLKS:

1) In an automatic, neutral definitely disengages something.  When I'm idling in drive with my foot on the brake (yes, it will roll forward otherwise), there is something growling and grumbling below me that stops as soon as I shift into neutral.  Count me among the few auto drivers who makes proper use of neutral (note: it's NOT for long downgrades), and I was taught by another road enthusiast.

2) Parking brakes are not necessary on flat surfaces, but they are necessary on inclines regardless of what you drive, and anyone who doesn't set one is not just asking for damage, but will damage the next thing downhill, which is a shame.

3) How to drive an automatic downhill:  Know your car.  I know that 1st gear will limit me to 15-20, 2nd gear will limit me to 30, 3rd gear will limit me to 45-50, etc.  I happen to have a manumatic so I can select any gear from 1-6 and my transmission will not exceed that gear (but it will go lower to avoid stalling the engine).  If the hill is less than two miles long and it's dry out, I'll just keep it in "6" and brake every so often.  BUT, the way I brake is by reducing a large clump of speed at once (say from 70-50) and letting my car rebuild the speed.  That lets the brakes recover and cool down before the next time.  People who ride their brakes gently all the way down are the ones who die.  (I try to do it when the grade flattens slightly - there are always variations in grade.)

4) How to drive an automatic on ice:  You don't have clutch modulation, so you need a sensitive right foot and a throttle that's not jumpy.  So you won't get that big V8 going, that's for sure.  My strategy is to let off the brake and see if the car rolls on its own.  If not, I tiptoe into the throttle until the car starts moving, hold until the wheels and revs match, ease a little more, hold, repeat until I've gained speed.

5) How to slow down on ice:  Downshift!  Get in the lowest gear you can.  My automatic prevents me from going above roughly 4K rpms when I downshift, which isn't the most helpful in snow - that's why I start slowing and downshifting well in advance of any hill.  Brake softly but steadily while on relatively flat ground to minimize the gear number you can choose.  When approaching anything resembling a stop or turn, I want my car in 1st gear and I will prepare at least 1/4 mile in advance to get my car slow enough for that shift.

[corco]

If we had some sort of recommend button, I would recommend this post. Well put on all counts, Steve.

[Duke87]

The most important aspect of slowing down on ice is to avoid going too fast in the first place. The second most important aspect of slowing down on ice is to not do it when it isn't actually necessary.

A common mistake people make is that they'll be driving down the highway, spot a patch of ice, panic, and hit their brakes. This is unwise. Try to brake at high speed on ice and you can lose control. Don't touch either pedal and you will roll right over it without incident. You do, of course, have to slow down if the ice is on a curve, but be sure to take your foot off the brake before you hit it. Braking on ice at high speed while turning is just asking to spin out.

[corco]

99% of driving on ice is just anticipating about 5-10 seconds in advance (as opposed to oh, like 2 or 3 seconds in advance on dry pavement). If you're in a vacuum on a wide open but totally slick and straight stretch of road with no chance of any traffic or animals or other hazards, you can safely drive as fast as your car can possibly go, even with completely bald tires (provided you can get your car going that fast in the first place).

Of course, that situation doesn't ever exist. There's always some hazard. If I'm a wide open stretch of road in daylight (where I can see a decent amount in advance)- like WYO 487 wide open, where you're not likely to even see another car and you can see about a mile ahead. I'm totally comfortable going 60 MPH. On an urban freeway, where there's tons of hazards, people really shouldn't be going more than 30 or so, but they do, so for me the easiest way to drive in snow on urban interstates is to stay in the gaps (traffic tends to travel in clumps- if you get between those clumps you can safely go the speed the clumps are going).

Slowing down is just fine as long as you don't use your brake to do it, and if you do you do what Alps alluded to and slow down incrementally as opposed to slamming your brakes to do it. Near the house I grew up in in Idaho is a fairly long, steep hill that's completely straight. Dozens and dozens of tourists end up in the ditch on the side of that hill every winter (enough that a buddy of mine and I used to sit by that hill after snowstorms on weekends and charge out of countiers $20 to pull them out of the ditch with the aforementioned F-350). The problem was that they didn't slow enough before entering the hill, got up to 35-40 about halfway down the hill, decided they'd rather be going 25, hit their brakes, and went in the ditch. Since it's a straight hill, it's much safer to just accumulate speed, descend, and worry about slowing down at the bottom of the hill (ideally you'd slow before the hill, but hey, that's too much to ask).

I've made a habit of almost always letting my foot off the gas when either being passed or encountering oncoming traffic when the roads are slick- that seems to work pretty well to give me just a little bit of extra reaction time if I need it.

Another thing to remember is that sometimes acceleration is the best option if you lose control. Sometimes if you start fish tailing and you for some reason can't recover (like you're towing a trailer), you can actually gun it to regain control. Braking lands you in the ditch 100% of the time.
In the trailer example, I actually saw a guy do it on I-80 in Wyoming last winter. It was windy and the roads were bad and he was towing a light trailer and the thing started fishtailing and was near the point of jack-knifing and rather than brake he slammed the gas and the trailer straightened out and he regained control. If he would have braked, he would have been rolled over in the median. That was probably the single smartest driving maneuver I've ever seen, because the reflex would be to slow down for most people. 

The way I drive on ice in a nutshell is to keep three simple things in mind:
1) My car doesn't have brakes
2) Every other car has no traction and is going to slide into me
3) I will slide occasionally, so it's good that I go to parking lots and spin donuts in the middle of the night to learn how to react*

As you do it a lot, you gain confidence, and eventually you get to the point where you aren't going to drive yourself into the ditch. If I drove myself into the ditch on an open stretch of road, that would absolutely be the most embarrassing thing that has ever happened to me. I have enough experience that I shouldn't ever do that. For that reason I tend to avoid interstates when it snows- at least in the rural west you're more likely to encounter a road where you're the only car on the road (this probably doesn't apply back east) and hazards are significantly minimized. If I go in the ditch, I would have had to put myself in the ditch. I'd go so far as to say that I'd rather drive an unplowed backroad than a plowed interstate.

Plowed roads tend to give people a really false sense of security, when in reality the driving conditions aren't that much different. I'd rather drive on packed unplowed snow than plow ice, because packed snow is obvious. Everyone knows that when the road is white you go slow. When the road has some pavement and some ice and a lot of black ice because the plow came through, a lot of drivers decide that it's OK to speed up.

*The notion that a lot of winter drivers have is "I should never slide." And no, you shouldn't in theory, but it will happen. The absolute best winter drivers in the world slide on occasions. If you have the reflexes developed to recover from it, that should be no problem at all and you'll recover without any sort of incident, so best to prepare yourself for it if you're going to drive in the winter.

[realjd]

2) Parking brakes are not necessary on flat surfaces, but they are necessary on inclines regardless of what you drive, and anyone who doesn't set one is not just asking for damage, but will damage the next thing downhill, which is a shame.

Good post. I'd recommend a parking break on flat surfaces though if there's a chance you'll get hit from the front or behind, like when you're parked on a street. The parking brake can make the difference between needing a just new bumper and needing both a new bumper and a new transmission. It's not unheard of for the parking pin in the tranny to get sheared off if hit just right.

I forgot to add earlier: While I'm an engineer and am obsessive about knowing how things work, I'm neither a mechanic nor a mechanical engineer. Feel free to yell at me if I'm incorrect about anything

[Dr Frankenstein]

2) Parking brakes are not necessary on flat surfaces, but they are necessary on inclines regardless of what you drive, and anyone who doesn't set one is not just asking for damage, but will damage the next thing downhill, which is a shame.

And FYI, there might be an incline you didn't notice... which is why I always put my parking brake if I get out of my car, regardless of the surface. Two days ago, I was stopped on the side of the highway to refill my windshield washer tank. My friend, who I was following, parked in front of me and got out of the car to chat with me. As I'm in front of my car, pouring the fluid, his car's rear started to roll backwards and its bumper suddenly hit and squeezed my legs. While I got out of there with only a bruise and barely any pain, things could have been worse, say, if he drove something bigger than his small Mazda MX-3.

[agentsteel53]

Another thing to remember is that sometimes acceleration is the best option if you lose control.

this.  from a feedback systems engineering perspective, it is obvious, but a lot of people have no idea.  When you give your car forward impetus, it will serve to cancel out your lateral movement (fishtailing).  

a lot of the time, when losing control, a brief moment of acceleration is exactly what you need.  like the previous situation I mentioned about swerving off the road onto mud - at that point, you turn *into* the spin (as it's the muddy tires that have made you lose traction), floor it for a split second to get your wheels grabbing forward, straighten out again while you have traction, and then when your other two tires hit the mud too, turn back, aim towards the road, back off the gas (maybe even take the car entirely out of gear), hold the wheel steady, and rejoin the concrete.

and watch the fireworks as the two colliding cars ahead of you are now the two colliding cars behind you.  behold the morons, but don't become one... all in about 1.5 seconds, and that beats the shit out of knowing how to parallel park.

[J N Winkler]

In an automatic, neutral definitely disengages something.  When I'm idling in drive with my foot on the brake (yes, it will roll forward otherwise), there is something growling and grumbling below me that stops as soon as I shift into neutral.  Count me among the few auto drivers who makes proper use of neutral (note: it's NOT for long downgrades), and I was taught by another road enthusiast.

The thing "growling and grumbling" is the torque converter, which is essentially a fluid coupling consisting of two specially formed plates.  One plate is connected to the engine flywheel while the other is connected to the driveshaft (or drive axles) through the transmission.  It is not a rigid connection like the dry clutch in a manual transmission.  Torque converters are designed to have high slip at low RPM; this is what allows you to idle in Drive on your brake while the input RPM is the engine idle speed and the output RPM is zero.  However, the slip drops to 5% or less at 2000 RPM or faster.  In fact, if your torque converter is working correctly, you should be able to stall your engine by revving up to 2000 RPM or faster while standing on the brakes so that the car cannot move.  (This is called the "torque converter stall test" in auto repair contexts and is typically not done unless absolutely necessary because it places immense strain on the transmission and can even cause transmissions in marginal condition to fail altogether.  Even setting the parking brake and then forgetting to release it before hitting the throttle in Drive can kill such transmissions.)

There is a dry clutch somewhere between the engine and the driveshaft (or drive axles) which is disengaged to put the transmission in neutral.  The issue is really whether this clutch is located between the flywheel and torque converter, or between the torque converter and the planetary gearsets.  I think the logical location for this clutch would be between the flywheel and torque converter since otherwise both parts of the torque converter would be freewheeling to no apparent purpose, but I do not know for a fact that this configuration is used and suspect it may in fact vary from model to model.  To confuse matters even more, the vast majority of automatic transmissions have had lockup overdrive since the mid-1980's.  The traditional implementation is a dry clutch that engages in top gear to bypass the torque converter and thus allow the car to cruise at freeway speeds with zero slip at relatively low engine RPM values (usually around 2000 RPM at 60 MPH).

Parking brakes are not necessary on flat surfaces, but they are necessary on inclines regardless of what you drive, and anyone who doesn't set one is not just asking for damage, but will damage the next thing downhill, which is a shame.

Realjd's point about protecting the parking pawl when parking on the street is a good one, as is Dr. Frankenstein's about deceptive inclines.  There are some locations in Alberta (I forget where, but one example has been called out in AAA TourBooks) where you can stop your car on what appears to be a downhill incline, put the transmission in neutral, and then observe the car roll backward.

Personally, I always set the parking brake when parking my personal car, regardless of whether I am on an incline or not.  If I am driving someone else's car, I also set the parking brake unless I am returning the car to a place where the owner (or somebody else) is likely to be the next person driving it and would have no reason to expect an "ordinary" person (i.e., not me) to set the parking brake.

How to drive an automatic downhill:  Know your car.  I know that 1st gear will limit me to 15-20, 2nd gear will limit me to 30, 3rd gear will limit me to 45-50, etc.  I happen to have a manumatic so I can select any gear from 1-6 and my transmission will not exceed that gear (but it will go lower to avoid stalling the engine).  If the hill is less than two miles long and it's dry out, I'll just keep it in "6" and brake every so often.  BUT, the way I brake is by reducing a large clump of speed at once (say from 70-50) and letting my car rebuild the speed.  That lets the brakes recover and cool down before the next time.  People who ride their brakes gently all the way down are the ones who die.  (I try to do it when the grade flattens slightly - there are always variations in grade.)

While that approach will generally work, I prefer not to even get in a situation where I need to consider braking pattern as a strategy for avoiding fade.  My general approach is to settle on a steady speed which I expect to be able to sustain safely for the majority of the grade, and then choose the highest gear which will allow me to maintain that speed with no speed gain without having to use the brakes.  Then I time shifts for smoothness.  It is not the high RPM that places wear on the transmission; it is harsh changes of gear.  Engine RPM can go quite high when descending grades in low gear, but as long as the engine is under redline, this is unimportant since the engine has continuous positive-pressure lubrication and oil pressure goes up with engine RPM.  Coolant temperature will also drop (almost to thermostat-opening temperature), which can be helpful if the engine is running hot from a prior hill climb.

[realjd]

WThere is a dry clutch somewhere between the engine and the driveshaft (or drive axles) which is disengaged to put the transmission in neutral.  The issue is really whether this clutch is located between the flywheel and torque converter, or between the torque converter and the planetary gearsets.  I think the logical location for this clutch would be between the flywheel and torque converter since otherwise both parts of the torque converter would be freewheeling to no apparent purpose, but I do not know for a fact that this configuration is used and suspect it may in fact vary from model to model.  To confuse matters even more, the vast majority of automatic transmissions have had lockup overdrive since the mid-1980's.  The traditional implementation is a dry clutch that engages in top gear to bypass the torque converter and thus allow the car to cruise at freeway speeds with zero slip at relatively low engine RPM values (usually around 2000 RPM at 60 MPH).

I've never heard of a "dry clutch" so I did a bit of research. Apparently, inside most torque converters is a "lockup clutch" that engages automatically at around 40 mph to lock the input side to the output side to prevent slip.

Inside automatic transmissions is a "clutch pack". It's connected directly between the input shaft of the automatic transmission and the planetary gears. If the car is in neutral, the nothing except the input shaft is spinning. Apparently this comes after the torque converter since it's also used when the transmission shifts.

So it looks like the standard car is set up:
Engine -> Torque Converter -> Flywheel -> [Clutch Pack -> Planetary Gearset] -> Wheels

Interestingly, there's also a "one-way clutch" that works like a bicycle's freewheel. It's allows the car to coast if in 1st gear in Drive (not L though).

The only reference to "dry clutch" I could find was in reference to manual transmissions, and an obscure transmission technology that some German cars use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_clutch_transmission

A few other sources:
http://www.familycar.com/transmission.htm
http://www.familycar.com/transmission.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm
None of the usual car repair sources include much info on transmissions for obvious reasons. My Haynes books barely mention them.

[J N Winkler]

I've never heard of a "dry clutch" so I did a bit of research. Apparently, inside most torque converters is a "lockup clutch" that engages automatically at around 40 mph to lock the input side to the output side to prevent slip.

I was using "dry" in the sense that it operated by friction and was designed to have zero slip.  This, it seems, differs somewhat from the accepted engineering usage, which considers a clutch "dry" or "wet" according to whether fluid is used.  Apparently the clutches inside an automatic transmission are all "wet" though they work by friction (I think this is where the thixotropic properties of ATF come into play).

So it looks like the standard car is set up:

Engine -> Torque Converter -> Flywheel -> [Clutch Pack -> Planetary Gearset] -> Wheels

I think this is basically correct, with the exception that the flywheel is immediately behind the engine.  It has teeth on its edge, which the starter motor engages in order to crank the engine.  It connects to the torque converter via a drive plate, which also has teeth and drives a governor which inputs engine crankshaft speed into the control valve body.  The clutch pack and planetary gearset (including brake bands) basically occupy the entire gearbox from front to back.

None of the usual car repair sources include much info on transmissions for obvious reasons. My Haynes books barely mention them.

Haynes, Chilton, etc. are aimed at a shadetree audience, so they basically explain only how to disconnect the transmission from the engine, but the factory service manuals have fuller information.  I still have the one for my old Maxima.  It has an exploded diagram of the standard automatic transaxle from front (just behind torque converter) to back (output gear for the differential), running to two pages and containing illustrations of well over a hundred distinct parts.  There is also a hydraulic circuit diagram for the control valve body, which takes up a whole page and is mind-blowingly complicated but manages not to be too much more elaborate than the equivalent for a mid-1960's GM three-speed automatic which Familycar.com uses as an example.

One useful thing I did learn from a Haynes manual, which was not in the factory service manual, was how to drain and refill the transmission by removing the drain plug.  Officially the transmission in the Nissan Maxima required no routine maintenance and the factory service manual didn't even document the existence of the drain plug.  However, I found that sticking to a 15,000-mile interval for draining and refilling the transmission (only a smallish proportion of the total fluid content could be drained at any given time) kept performance sweet.

[realjd]

I like doing my own car repairs, but the only major thing that has gone wrong with my current '01 Honda Accord was a transmission problem. I figured that was above my ability level to work on and had a mechanic do it. I (thankfully!) haven't had anything to repair yet that necessitated a factory repair manual, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I end up having to buy one. My wife's '02 Mustang has been running similarly well, so I haven't had to do much work on it either. Back in college though, having a factory manual saved me a significant amount of money keeping my beater Camry in working order!

This has been a good discussion. It's given me an excuse to learn more about how automatic transmissions actually work. Plus, I got to learn what "thixotropy" means! As a Computer Engineer, I'm in awe over the fact that people actually designed mechanical systems as complicated as an automatic transmission.

[NJRoadfan]

I have driven just about every transmission type out there. For all you folks who have never driven a manual, you develop a motor memory and its second nature to the point that when you get into an automatic car, your left foot is stomping for a clutch that isn't there. Manual transmission drivers tend to do better with fuel economy because of how they drive. You coast a lot more, and anticipate shifting. You try to avoid stopping (less dealing with the clutch, stopping quickly and then starting is annoying), and nothing is more annoying then being cut off on the highway and having to downshift... ugh. You will get people mad when crawling in traffic, you want to stay in 2nd and keep moving. Sometimes that results in a gap between you and the car in front. Everyone wants to stop and go (because its easy with an automatic), with a manual, crawling at a continuous 5mph is better. Riding the clutch is BAD.

For fuel economy reasons, the manual's advantage has diminished, automatics have closed the gap and almost always have equal or better fuel economy numbers (usually better highway). My last car had a direct shift gearbox. It was a double clutch computer controlled gearbox with no torque converter. It drove like a manual without the clutch with lightning fast shifting (there is no jerk+power loss during gear changes), coming to a full stop just let out the clutch. By far the best non-traditional automatic for drivability. CVTs are blah, never cared for their rubber band driving dynamic. They just kinda loaf up to speed. I'm back to a slushbox in my current car, it seems they have made improvements since my last car with one. More gears, more fuel efficient, and shifts slightly slower then the DSG... impressive.

[JREwing78]

5) How to slow down on ice:  Downshift!  Get in the lowest gear you can.

So, in other words, I want to use maximum engine braking? On ice? No offense, but that's a terrible idea. On ice, I want the engine out of the equation, so that I have more control over the braking force going to each wheel. So, if anything, I drop the transmission into neutral.

Once I do that, I ease into the brakes and carefully feel out the point where the tires start to skid, then ease off just enough to regain traction. If the car starts to slide sideways, I come off the brakes and steer where I want the car to go, then once back under control ease into braking again.

[agentsteel53]

Once I do that, I ease into the brakes and carefully feel out the point where the tires start to skid, then ease off just enough to regain traction. If the car starts to slide sideways, I come off the brakes and steer where I want the car to go, then once back under control ease into braking again.

I disagree with this, simply because the inertia of the engine diminishes the acceleration by a particular factor.  Since the exact point of skid is dependent on every situation (friction of ice, vertical angle, and a certain amount of luck), I would minimize all incoming adversarial variables before depending on my ability to take on the worst that the situation could possibly offer.

I know that for both manual and automatic transmissions, taking the car out of gear (putting it into neutral) causes it to become much "lighter" with respect to both the human controls and the external influences... I once slid out (out of gear, in a manual transmission) on an ice-covered level road in northern California and had the car in the middle of the intersection before I steered into the turn, found the brakes and came to a halt, and regained enough control to put the car back into gear and find my way forward.

you may be mistaking the effects of being in gear versus the effects of putting the car into gear.  If you are not careful, the sudden applied momentum of putting the car into gear may be what loses your control - but having a car in gear, with traction, going forward is invaluable when presented with an icy surface.

[corco]

Yeah, you absolutely want to minimize the process of downshifting, especially on hills, but being in a low gear to begin with is a very good thing. If you start driving down an icy hill and get to 25 or so depending on the car and drop from D to 2 (or 3rd to 2nd or whatever), you'll likely start sliding, but if you put the car into 2 before you start going down the hill, that's to your advantage.

Now, if you do downshift while you're in motion, you want to use your brakes to slow the car to the point that you can downshift without getting the RPMs above a certain level, and then you can shift without sliding and use the lower gear to hold the new speed. You want to slow with your brakes and hold the slow speed with the engine.

And then if you lose traction you definitely want to already be in gear, because you'll usually need the gas pedal to get out of it.