Toll Booths

[jakeroot]

Because I apparently cannot unsubscribe to this thread, here are my opinions:

- Cash is archaic. What is this, the 1950s? There's a reason automated billing is so popular.

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and the needs of the many suggest a number of things to me:

- Most people do not have identity theft issues
- People are in a rush these days and as such would rather use electronic tolling anyways
-> Tollbooths create extra unnecessary traffic that electronic tolling does not
- The majority are not willing to pay extra for tollbooths, as like I said before, tollbooths need people to man them, and they need to be payed a salary.

I can't blame you for thinking I'm being daft, unforgiving, or arrogant, but all I care about is money, and electronic tolling is cheaper. Period.

EDIT: I want to make it understood that I fully agree that cash is safer.

[agentsteel53]

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

indeed.  that's what credit cards are for.  you have a lot better buyer protection, including about 21 days of grace period in which you can review all the charges that have appeared.

[jeffandnicole]

Because I apparently cannot unsubscribe to this thread, here are my opinions:

- Cash is archaic. What is this, the 1950s? There's a reason automated billing is so popular.

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

Don't even need that.  If your Debit Card can be used as a credit card (without the pin), all one needs is the 16 digit number and the expiration date.

[Laura]

Because I apparently cannot unsubscribe to this thread, here are my opinions:

- Cash is archaic. What is this, the 1950s? There's a reason automated billing is so popular.

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

I used credit and still had my card number compromised at Target.


iPhone

[agentsteel53]

I used credit and still had my card number compromised at Target.

did anything worse happen than the card company giving you a call saying "guess what, you have to memorize a new card number now"?

[seicer]

Making mountains out of mole hills.

I had my credit card compromised at Target. You know what happened? Nothing.

Nothing.

My issuer (PNC) called, said that the number was one of those that were compromised, and locked the account. They shipped me a new card within a day. That was that.

I had another card that was hijacked and $250 in charges were charged, but the issuer (PNC) called, we had a 10 minute discussion and those charges were reversed. Easy as that.

My Chase VISA, which I use exclusively for Amazon purchases for those handy points, is tracked very well. I can use it online at Amazon and then fuel up 100 miles from my house and get a call from Chase a few minutes later asking if that purchase was valid.

[signalman]

Because I apparently cannot unsubscribe to this thread, here are my opinions:

- Cash is archaic. What is this, the 1950s? There's a reason automated billing is so popular.

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

I used credit and still had my card number compromised at Target.

I shop at Target regularly.  Fortnately for me though I did not shop there during the dates that card numbers were compromised.

I use credit cards extensively, but responsibly.  I hardly pay cash for anything.  Usually just small purchases...cup of coffee, sandwich, etc.  The dollar amount is usually around $20...if it's less than $20, I'll pay cash.  Any more, and I charge it. 

The exception being road tolls.  I have EZ Pass, and have had it for a long time.  I do get charged $1 a month maintenance fee, but I determined that it's worth it to sail through toll plazas and not have to sit in the cash queues and fiddle for money to pay.   I love taking advantage of ORT when available too. 

[jeffandnicole]

I've charged under $2 many times at convenience stores and such.  I almost hate doing so, but I rarely use cash anymore.  If it's a group outing at a restaurant, I will bring cash, including 1's, so I can give the server exact change.

[Pete from Boston]

Because I apparently cannot unsubscribe to this thread, here are my opinions:

- Cash is archaic. What is this, the 1950s? There's a reason automated billing is so popular.

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

I used credit and still had my card number compromised at Target.

Your PIN would have been like holding the door for the people cleaning out your house.

The most you are on the hook for in instances of credit card fraud is $50, and I've never been charged even that.

I understand the allegiance to cash payment for tolls, but ultimately it's going to end up being like paying cash for utility bills — possible, but inconvenient and provided for only just barely.  The market serves the majority.

[realjd]

Tell that to those who are victims of the Target identity theft stuff.  I much prefer cash for most purchases as it is far, far safer (oddly enough) in this day and age of identity theft.  You lose a $20, so what.  You lose your account number and PIN to a crime ring, you're out everything.

That's why you use a credit/charge card, or run your debit card as credit. You're not responsible for fraudulent charges on credit cards or debit transactions run through a credit network. If your card number is compromised, most often your bank will detect it and call you based on unusual transactions. If not, a quick phone call will get those charges waived and a new card with a new number send FedEx overnight. The only real annoyance is having to update anything you have set to auto-bill the old card number.

[vdeane]

Plus Target's issue was brought about in large part by Target themselves though bad security practices.  Back when these systems were put in place, nobody took the idea that hackers would go online seriously, so they're very insecure, and many companies can't be bothered to spend the money to upgrade security.

For one, there isn't much reason to keep the card data for in-store transactions.  Just run the card again if you need to process a return.  If the info is never written to disk, a hacker can't steal it.  The only time credit card info should be stored is if someone chooses to do so on their online account.

[jakeroot]

Wait wait wait. Electronic tolling does not mean debit or credit. Cash is acceptable as well, at least here in Washington. Here are WSDOT's payment methods:

- Pay online
- By phone: 1-866-936-8246
- By mail: Good To Go!, P.O. Box 300321, Seattle, WA 98103
- In person at a customer service center in Seattle, Bellevue or Gig Harbor

Who cares about card fraud when even electronic tolling can be paid with cash.

[theline]

^^ Interesting.  ISTHA sent out a letter 10 years after I got the transponder stating that I had to replace it.  Replacement was easy.  I just followed the letter and brought it and my old transponder to a Jewel-Osco.  It was replaced for free there and the new one activated immediately.  No battery failure.

Trading transponders is not so easy for me, since I live in South Bend, far from a Jewel-Osco. I haven't figured out what to do about it yet. The ISTHA web site is no help. Maybe I'll call.

There's one in Chesterton, near I-94 and IN-49.

While I still appreciate the suggestion, Brandon, it didn't work out. We stopped by the Jewel/Osco in Chesterton, on our way back from Merrillville on Monday. They won't trade transponders at Indiana locations, we learned, because of a "conflict of interest." We pointed out we had purchased it at that same store several years ago, but the clerk explained that ISTHA pulled out as soon as Indiana started electronic tolling after we got our transponder.

I guess we will be calling to see how we can return the Illinois gizmo and purchase one from Indiana.

[MrDisco99]

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

Because credit ID theft doesn't happen?

I realize we have pretty much already become a database society where everyone can be tracked or stolen from with a few important numbers.  However, there are many non-nefarious benefits to anonymity which I think should be preserved as much as possible.

[Pete from Boston]

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

Because credit ID theft doesn't happen?

No, but as I said, you're probably better off with the credit card protections.  You're pretty wide open to ID theft simply by taking part in society.

[vdeane]

If you're using a PIN instead of credit at Target, you sort of have it coming.

Because credit ID theft doesn't happen?

I realize we have pretty much already become a database society where everyone can be tracked or stolen from with a few important numbers.  However, there are many non-nefarious benefits to anonymity which I think should be preserved as much as possible.

If you're credit card info gets stolen, the most you're liable for is $50.  If your debit card info gets stolen, your entire bank account can be emptied.

[SidS1045]

If your credit card info gets stolen, the most you're liable for is $50.  If your debit card info gets stolen, your entire bank account can be emptied.

Many of the higher-end credit cards will spot you the $50 and make your liability for fraudulent charges zero.

[Pete from Boston]

If your credit card info gets stolen, the most you're liable for is $50.  If your debit card info gets stolen, your entire bank account can be emptied.

Many of the higher-end credit cards will spot you the $50 and make your liability for fraudulent charges zero.

Right, which is why I've never even been charged that (not even without a high-end card).  The $50 seems to almost be made up so they can offer pretend goodwill by waiving it.

[wxfree]

If your credit card info gets stolen, the most you're liable for is $50.  If your debit card info gets stolen, your entire bank account can be emptied.

Many of the higher-end credit cards will spot you the $50 and make your liability for fraudulent charges zero.

Right, which is why I've never even been charged that (not even without a high-end card).  The $50 seems to almost be made up so they can offer pretend goodwill by waiving it.

I believe the $50 figure is in federal law.  As I recall, federal law limits liability in the case of credit card fraud to $50, but many credit cards have zero liability.  Even my debit card has zero liability, with disputed charges reversed by the following business day, pending investigation.

[DevalDragon]

Indiana does not have any employees at their toll plazas; it's just you and the machine. If there is a problem, you press the intercom button and somebody from a remote location will try to assist you. I've been stuck behind people that can't read the EZ Pass only signs a number of times on the ITR, and even 2 or 3 occasions where my iPass would not read. Twice they entered it manually and once they made me pay (the machine) with cash.

No idea on the gate arms.  I haven't seen one on an ISTHA road outside a manual lane in a long time.  Then, I suspect you'd get instant help from the attendant on-duty.  The Indiana Toll Road still has the gate arms, but they have attendants on-duty at the plazas as well.  I suspect you'd have to honk your horn and get help.

[DevalDragon]

I wouldn't advise that, unless you like paying Indiana 75 cents a month just to have their transponder. Illinois does not charge a monthly fee.

I guess we will be calling to see how we can return the Illinois gizmo and purchase one from Indiana.

[Scott5114]

For one, there isn't much reason to keep the card data for in-store transactions.  Just run the card again if you need to process a return.  If the info is never written to disk, a hacker can't steal it.  The only time credit card info should be stored is if someone chooses to do so on their online account.

This wouldn't work. You would have no way of verifying that the card presented for the return is the same one that was used to make the purchase.

[vdeane]

For one, there isn't much reason to keep the card data for in-store transactions.  Just run the card again if you need to process a return.  If the info is never written to disk, a hacker can't steal it.  The only time credit card info should be stored is if someone chooses to do so on their online account.

This wouldn't work. You would have no way of verifying that the card presented for the return is the same one that was used to make the purchase.

Don't receipts include enough information for that?  Every time I get a receipt for something I paid with a credit card, it has the card issuer and the last four digits of the card number.

It would also be possible to change the model so that the retailer is giving a credit rather than reversing part of the previous transaction.

[Brandon]

Indiana does not have any employees at their toll plazas; it's just you and the machine. If there is a problem, you press the intercom button and somebody from a remote location will try to assist you. I've been stuck behind people that can't read the EZ Pass only signs a number of times on the ITR, and even 2 or 3 occasions where my iPass would not read. Twice they entered it manually and once they made me pay (the machine) with cash.

No idea on the gate arms.  I haven't seen one on an ISTHA road outside a manual lane in a long time.  Then, I suspect you'd get instant help from the attendant on-duty.  The Indiana Toll Road still has the gate arms, but they have attendants on-duty at the plazas as well.  I suspect you'd have to honk your horn and get help.

This is new then, as last time I was on the Indiana Toll Road (last year), they still had attendants at the mainline toll plazas (Willowcreek and Eastpoint).  And I've always seen attendants on the ticket section of the Toll Road.  Now, the western part does have unattended toll plazas that have coin baskets (a la ISTHA).

[theline]

The Indiana Toll Road experience varies. Some toll booths are attended, and others have no one in sight, as Dragon experienced. I suppose it depends on how busy the exit is. The good thing is that they all accept credit, debit, and good old greenbacks. I've had occasions where the I-Pass didn't register when I entered the road. I took a ticket, and then handed ticket and transponder to the attendant at my exit. It was hassle-free. I was fortunate that that booth was attended.

That brings up the fact that even the EZ-Pass lanes have ticket dispensers. If the transponder doesn't work, you realize too late that you don't have it, or you're too stupid to get in the right lane, just take a ticket and the gate opens.