denver to dallas

[agentsteel53]

This thread reminds me of a 2005 Car and Driver article about John Phillips driving a Smart ForTwo around the Oklahoma Panhandle.

wow, only after seeing that spelling did I realize that the Smart's name is "for two".  I'd always pronounced it "fort woe"!

[Takumi]

"Fort Woe" sort of sounds like a military prison.

[usends]

I just did this drive last week - between Denver and Amarillo I used I-25/US 87 on the way down, and on the way back I went 287 all the way.  Someone upthread made the point that truckers prefer 287 because they can avoid Front Range traffic, Monument Hill, and Raton Pass.  I don't dispute that, but in my opinion all those trucks on 287 (combined with the fact that it's only 2 lanes for the entire distance between Limon and Stratford TX) make it a lousy route for a passenger car.  Despite the depopulation along this route, there are still several towns where you have to slow down to 30 mph.  And it can be a long wait before finding a gap big enough to pass a truck... only to find yourself behind yet another truck.  Posted speed limit in CO and OK is 65, but there were several times when I couldn't go that fast.  Despite what someone else upthread said, make no mistake: there are currently no 4-laning projects in progress along US 287 in Colorado.  That route is going to be 2-lanes long into the foreseeable future.

Contrast that with the Raton route: I-25 is speed limit 75, except for a few 65-mph sections (and a 50-mph segment in Pueblo).  And I don't think this has been mentioned yet: US 87 in New Mexico is almost entirely 4-laned now.  From what I saw, I believe that project will be done sometime this year.  When that's complete, then the only 2-lane section along US 87 will be the 24-mile segment between Dumas and Hartley TX (and I didn't see any indication that TX is preparing to improve that segment).  But this route definitely gets my vote over 287, hands down.  (Granted, I left early in the morning, so Front Range traffic was not a factor.)

Of course both routes rejoin south of Dumas.  There are several overpasses north of Amarillo which were inexplicably built too narrow for 2 lanes, so 2 lanes of traffic have to keep merging back to one.  But from what I saw, 4-laners in TX are generally speed limit 70, so whether you use 87 or 287, either way is better than using I-70 / I-35 to Dallas (which I don't think anyone was advocating anyway).

[Sykotyk]

I just did this drive last week - between Denver and Amarillo I used I-25/US 87 on the way down, and on the way back I went 287 all the way.  Someone upthread made the point that truckers prefer 287 because they can avoid Front Range traffic, Monument Hill, and Raton Pass.  I don't dispute that, but in my opinion all those trucks on 287 (combined with the fact that it's only 2 lanes for the entire distance between Limon and Stratford TX) make it a lousy route for a passenger car.

No doubt. But, that's not to say the trucks shouldn't be accommodated.  More passing lanes and a few bypasses would be all it would take. Not a full freeway. Because, as mentioned, a lot less 'civilization' to pass through on 287 than I-25.

Despite the depopulation along this route, there are still several towns where you have to slow down to 30 mph.  And it can be a long wait before finding a gap big enough to pass a truck... only to find yourself behind yet another truck.  Posted speed limit in CO and OK is 65, but there were several times when I couldn't go that fast.  Despite what someone else upthread said, make no mistake: there are currently no 4-laning projects in progress along US 287 in Colorado.  That route is going to be 2-lanes long into the foreseeable future.

There's a plan to bypass Lamar. That's about it at the moment. Boise City already got its bypass.

Contrast that with the Raton route: I-25 is speed limit 75, except for a few 65-mph sections (and a 50-mph segment in Pueblo).  And I don't think this has been mentioned yet: US 87 in New Mexico is almost entirely 4-laned now.  From what I saw, I believe that project will be done sometime this year.  When that's complete, then the only 2-lane section along US 87 will be the 24-mile segment between Dumas and Hartley TX (and I didn't see any indication that TX is preparing to improve that segment).  But this route definitely gets my vote over 287, hands down.  (Granted, I left early in the morning, so Front Range traffic was not a factor.)

In a car, yes. But it depends on how far down the range you're going. If you're already starting south of Denver, it by far is the better route. if you're north or Denver, US287 is about it unless you purposefully want to drive the traffic of the front range.

Of course both routes rejoin south of Dumas.  There are several overpasses north of Amarillo which were inexplicably built too narrow for 2 lanes, so 2 lanes of traffic have to keep merging back to one.

They were two-lane bridges that have been downgraded due to structural integrity. Since they all were built at the same time and same design, they all got hacked to one lane when deficiencies were found.

But from what I saw, 4-laners in TX are generally speed limit 70, so whether you use 87 or 287, either way is better than using I-70 / I-35 to Dallas (which I don't think anyone was advocating anyway).

TX is very good for non-interstates being 70+ in the middle of nowhere.

[agentsteel53]

TX is very good for non-interstates being 70+ in the middle of nowhere.

this includes two-laners.  there are 75mph two-laners in the same counties in west TX where you find 75 or 80mph interstates.

apart from the new 80 and 85mph freeways, Texas believes that it has built most of its roads to accommodate capacity in such a way that traffic can move fast.  generally speaking, they are correct.  the 75mph two-laners are dang near abandoned.