Unwarranted stop signs in the District of Columbia

[ixnay]

On the DC thread on the Midatlantic board, cpzilliacus stated that DC has IHO a plethora of unnecessary stop signs.

Where are they and why are they not needed?

ixnay

[cpzilliacus]

Many collector-class roads, and they are not needed because they are being used as traffic calming devices, and were installed because of demands made by local activists, not because they were  warranted.

[jeffandnicole]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

[AlexandriaVA]

Many collector-class roads, and they are not needed because they are being used as traffic calming devices, and were installed because of demands made by local activists, not because they were  warranted.

Typical traffic engineering/planning myopia in a nutshell on display right here:

Local residents = "activists"

unwarranted = anything besides maximum throughput

Politicians are responsible to their constituents. There will always be an inherent political element to this kinda stuff.

[ixnay]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

Since it's specifically about traffic control devices, I thought it rated its own thread rather than be buried in that one.  We'll have to agree to disagree, j&n.

ixnay

[ixnay]

Many collector-class roads,

Got examples, so we can employ Google Maps (e.g.) (or an ADC atlas of DC) accordingly?

ixnay

[cpzilliacus]

Many collector-class roads,

Got examples, so we can employ Google Maps (e.g.) (or an ADC atlas of DC) accordingly?

ixnay

For starters, here is one.

[cpzilliacus]

Many collector-class roads, and they are not needed because they are being used as traffic calming devices, and were installed because of demands made by local activists, not because they were  warranted.

Typical traffic engineering/planning myopia in a nutshell on display right here:

Local residents = "activists"

unwarranted = anything besides maximum throughput

Politicians are responsible to their constituents. There will always be an inherent political element to this kinda stuff.

Ever heard of warrant analysis?  Appears to have been entirely abandoned in the District of Columbia when  it comes to STOP signs. 

[ixnay]

Many collector-class roads,

Got examples, so we can employ Google Maps (e.g.) (or an ADC atlas of DC) accordingly?

ixnay

For starters, here is one.

Now you're talkin'.

ixnay

[Brandon]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

It goes way beyond DC.  Unwarranted stop signs are used as speed control devices in a lot of places, including Chicago.

[PHLBOS]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

It goes way beyond DC.  Unwarranted stop signs are used as speed control devices in a lot of places, including Chicago.

Local (non-PennDOT) roads in southeastern PA have done such for decades.

[roadman]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

It goes way beyond DC.  Unwarranted stop signs are used as speed control devices in a lot of places, including Chicago.

In 1987, the Massachusetts Legislature, through an act known as Chapter 689, gave local cities and towns the right to install stop signs on local streets and roads without first obtaining MassDPW approval.  In my neighborhood alone, it was amazing how many very low volume intersections that never had a safety or a speed problem suddenly were considered dangerous enough for the City of Lynn to immediately install stop signs upon passage of the act.

[jeffandnicole]

Ironically, this thread is unwarranted because the question could've been asked as a reply on the DC thread on the Mid-Atlantic board.

It goes way beyond DC.  Unwarranted stop signs are used as speed control devices in a lot of places, including Chicago.

Yep...and we've talked about them quite often too.

They've cropped up a little bit in NJ, when rules were relaxed regarding the criteria needed for such signs. Previously, NJDOT had to approve the locations, even on municipal roads.  They took that requirement away. Fortunately, there hasn't been toooo many unwarranted signs going up, even though just a few are, of course, too many.

[cpzilliacus]

Another example in D.C. can be found here.

[Bruce]

We need more stop signs. Everywhere.

In the other Washington, we have a plethora of unmarked crosswalks where drivers don't stop, despite it being the law. Forcing them to stop every time would help train drivers to actually stop instead of speeding up around pedestrians.

[Rothman]

We need more stop signs. Everywhere.

[vdeane]

We need more stop signs. Everywhere.

In the other Washington, we have a plethora of unmarked crosswalks where drivers don't stop, despite it being the law. Forcing them to stop every time would help train drivers to actually stop instead of speeding up around pedestrians.

Or it would just train them that stop signs don't mean anything and aren't worth obeying.  You know, kinda what already happened to speed limits and is happening to stop signs because residents want to use them for speed control.

The real solution is better drivers ed and MUCH more difficult written and road tests, and making it RETROACTIVE, required for anyone who got a licence earlier the next time they renew.  Don't make life harder for drivers just because we let people drive who are flat out unqualified to operate a motor vehicle.