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Author Topic: North Carolina  (Read 586054 times)

Takumi

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3625 on: September 10, 2020, 11:58:43 AM »

I didnít know the Mid-Currituck Bridge was even imminent.
Been thinking that for the past decade. I'll believe it when it's under construction.
Iíll believe it when it opens to the public.
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3626 on: September 10, 2020, 12:19:40 PM »

^
With, according to RE/T groups, an over $50 toll.
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Takumi

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3627 on: September 10, 2020, 10:55:44 PM »

In a typical summer, theyíll be able to charge whatever they want and itíll still be packed.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3628 on: September 10, 2020, 11:17:17 PM »

In a typical summer, theyíll be able to charge whatever they want and itíll still be packed.

I wouldn't be so sure.  I've done the trip to Corolla numerous times, sometimes from Virginia and sometime from Raleigh and points west.  Part of the mystique of the Outer Banks is to hit the surf shops and other tourist things (say Dairy Queen) on the way to the beach (in this case, most folks get a rental house).  Charge too much toll on the bridge, and folks will go hit the night life at Nags Head instead of crossing over to Corolla.

I'm surely going to aggravate folks, but Corolla is technically on the mainland (no through route to Virginia).  The first true island on the Outer Banks is south of the (avoiding saying Bonner) new Basnight Bridge.
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3629 on: September 11, 2020, 12:07:38 AM »

I wouldn't be so sure.  I've done the trip to Corolla numerous times, sometimes from Virginia and sometime from Raleigh and points west.  Part of the mystique of the Outer Banks is to hit the surf shops and other tourist things (say Dairy Queen) on the way to the beach (in this case, most folks get a rental house).  Charge too much toll on the bridge, and folks will go hit the night life at Nags Head instead of crossing over to Corolla.
People already drive to Corolla today, and that route involves the US-158 bridge into Nags Head then going up NC-12.

The bridge would shave off about an hour of travel time from NC-168 / US-158 to Corolla, so they could charge a toll like the Chesapeake Expressway just north of the border ($8 one way during peak weekends) and people would still pay it. If people will pay $8 one way on VA-168 to save 3-5 minutes over 6 miles to drive a short 4 lane 55 mph (should be 65 mph) freeway, they'll definitely pay $8 to save an hour and close to 50 miles. The Expressway is largely dead throughout the year with its off-peak $3 toll, with most people still using VA-168 Business / Battlefield Blvd to avoid the toll portion then rejoining it at Hillcrest Pkwy, but during the summer months it gets quite full with long distance tourist traffic who don't think twice about paying.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 12:09:56 AM by sprjus4 »
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Thing 342

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3630 on: September 11, 2020, 09:03:22 AM »

I'd imagine the toll would be closer to that of the CBBT, ie $18-20 during peak months (and probably much lower during the rest of the year)
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3631 on: September 11, 2020, 09:37:48 AM »

I'd say charge the tourists more and give the permanent residents of Dare, Currituck and Camden counties a free pass.  Yes, some ultra rich will get a break, if they move completely to any of those counties but, the residents, most of the workers for the area, will get the break. 

NC residents outside those counties should also get a better rate than out of state.  Yes, it's prejudicial but, as stated earlier, the tourists will pay for the convenience.

Being that NC tolls by plate or transponder, the Billing would be quite easy.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3632 on: September 12, 2020, 08:03:58 AM »

I'd say charge the tourists more and give the permanent residents of Dare, Currituck and Camden counties a free pass.  Yes, some ultra rich will get a break, if they move completely to any of those counties but, the residents, most of the workers for the area, will get the break. 

NC residents outside those counties should also get a better rate than out of state.  Yes, it's prejudicial but, as stated earlier, the tourists will pay for the convenience.

Being that NC tolls by plate or transponder, the Billing would be quite easy.

Maryland does this on I-95 with E-ZPass. The mainline toll is $6 instead of $8 for all others, and the harbor tunnels are $3 instead of $4.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3633 on: September 12, 2020, 10:19:15 AM »

Now, for my toll rant. Have the turnpike projects in North Carolina been fair? No. There is no reason Greensboro and Winston-Salem should have new loops constructed toll-free while NC 540 "had" to be built as a toll project. Either they're all free or they're all tolled. Same with the widening projects. How was/is there funding to widen I-26 southeast of Asheville, I-40 southeast of Raleigh, I-85 northeast of Charlotte, and I-95 (at least a couple of billion dollars, I’ve lost count), but there was no funding to widen I-77? Every interstate should be widened to at least three free travel lanes before considering toll lanes.

New HOT lanes for somewhere like I-40 between Durham and Raleigh, or I-540 in northern Wake? Sure, go for it. New facility on new location? Fine. If you want to live in Holly Springs and have a convenient commute to RTP every day, you can pay a toll for a shiny new road (I know, just contradicted what I said above). Same with the Monroe Expressway, although it is part of a bigger piece of an important intrastate corridor that should have probably been a "free" bypass, but oh well....

Not that I really support it deep down, but some of the remaining bypasses could benefit from being tolled facilities if it meant expediting the projects, like Kinston and Wadesboro. Want to get to the beach faster? Pay the toll. Don't? OK, stop at the lights through town. I'd give away my first-born child to never have to drive through Shelby again.

However, I don't know if there'd be enough volume/demand or enough daily congestion through the smaller towns to warrant users to take the tolled route. That could result in high tolls to cover the costs, meaning no one would use it and result in losses. The rural bypasses are some of the most expensive highway projects to build, but don’t always have the most benefit.

I'm sure it's written into law somewhere, but why can new projects not use a mix of traditional funding and tolls? Basically, have a low enough toll that would entice 95% of users to pay to use the facility, while the remainder of the cost is covered/subsidized by traditional funding. For example, pay something low like $2 to take a bypass around Kinston. Most people would probably pay that small of an amount for the convenience. Assuming the construction costs could be split 50/50 between tolled and Highway Trust Fund, this would knock the up-front construction cost down from $380 million to $190 million. That could accelerate this project and others, and free up tens of millions of dollars for other projects needed across the state.

Of course raising the federal gas tax for the first time since 1993 to keep up with inflation, increasing fuel efficiency and rising construction costs would be the easiest solution to increase revenue for highway projects, but who wants to pay another nickel per gallon? That’s outrageous.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3634 on: September 12, 2020, 03:55:35 PM »

Now, for my toll rant. Have the turnpike projects in North Carolina been fair? No. There is no reason Greensboro and Winston-Salem should have new loops constructed toll-free while NC 540 "had" to be built as a toll project. Either they're all free or they're all tolled. Same with the widening projects. How was/is there funding to widen I-26 southeast of Asheville, I-40 southeast of Raleigh, I-85 northeast of Charlotte, and I-95 (at least a couple of billion dollars, Iíve lost count), but there was no funding to widen I-77? Every interstate should be widened to at least three free travel lanes before considering toll lanes.  <<snipped>>

Toll road construction has also resulted in further delays to other highway projects in North Carolina.  Ever since I moved here 20 years ago, the widening of I-85 between Durham and the I-40 split has been a "Top Five" statewide priority for NCDOT (at least most years).  Yet other projects get bumped up the ladder to get construction funding.  Most of the reasons are obvious, such as widening I-40 from the other leg of the split to Durham (which now has much heavier traffic than I-85 due to the I-885 construction delays on the NC-147 Durham Freeway).  But other projects are jumping up the ladder because of affordability.  Needless to say, greenfield construction with toll road income improves the economics as compared to tight right-of-way projects.  For the record, I-85 doesn't need widening the entire length of this corridor: (1) widening the short stretch to the US-70 west at Exit 170 is needed for capacity, and (2) widening between the two Hillsborough exits is needed for safety improvements.  I'd be surprised if anything gets done in the next 10 years.
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3635 on: September 13, 2020, 02:16:03 AM »

^
I-85 north of Durham also does not need widening. The portion between Henderson and the Virginia state line recently underwent a major rehabilitation project which replaced mainline bridges, tore up the road and completely reconstructed it with concrete overlay, and increased vertical clearance under overpasses. No lanes were added in the process. The speed limit was also increased from 65 mph to 70 mph.
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Third Strike

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3636 on: September 13, 2020, 09:34:35 AM »

I remember seeing plans of a NC 24/27 bypass around the town of Locust back in the early 2010s, with discussion on whether it should be routed north of the town or south. Anybody have a clue as to what happened to this project? Seems like it fell of the face of the Earth, and not even Google could give me a straight answer.

I was reminded by this project because I recently traveled NC 24/27, and got a chance to drive on the new Troy bypass. I also remember seeing Albemarle getting a bypass on several maps. I wonder if the state still plans to upgrade this route to an expressway, at least from Charlotte to Fayetteville?
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3638 on: September 13, 2020, 06:21:33 PM »

^
I-85 north of Durham also does not need widening. The portion between Henderson and the Virginia state line recently underwent a major rehabilitation project which replaced mainline bridges, tore up the road and completely reconstructed it with concrete overlay, and increased vertical clearance under overpasses. No lanes were added in the process. The speed limit was also increased from 65 mph to 70 mph.
Agreed, except: I'd like to see I-85 widened between Falls Lake and Durham.
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tjcreasy

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3639 on: September 13, 2020, 09:48:30 PM »

RE: US 70 Freeway conversion in Durham: I wonder why Aviation Parkway will not be controlled access between Glebe Road and US 70? It appears from the conceptual plans that NCDOT plans to extend Aviation Parkway in the future. I assume this extension will not connect with I-85 as a portion of the Northern Durham Parkway anymore.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 07:06:26 AM by tjcreasy »
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Dirt Roads

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3640 on: September 13, 2020, 09:50:55 PM »

Moved from the Interstate 73/74 thread:

The first 3 mile segment of the I-74 Winston-Salem Beltway between US-421 Salem Pkwy (former I-40 Business) and US-158 is on schedule to open likely this week.
When segments open like this, it's practically useless, or it just lures a few people from their houses onto the highway going to work. AADT would be 1,000 - 5,000 until the whole eastern segment (maybe not the salem parkway to I-74) is completed.
With today's virtually incessant questioning/criticism of public expenditures, periodic openings of segments of this sort are intended not necessarily to be of great real value but more to let the public know that projects are being completed rather than just talked about.  A picture of actual non-construction vehicles rolling down a new freeway is worth the proverbial thousand words.  It also puts pressure on, in this case, NCDOT, to continue to make further progress on a similar schedule (although COVID will likely stretch the completion horizon out by several months if not over a year).  So the PR value of the first segment opened "morphs" into a "what have you done for me lately" situation that'll repeat itself until the full I-74 portion of the beltway is completed.       

It's about time.  In the past four years, NCDOT has gone from completing projects ahead of schedule to dragging out projects to a near standstill.  The NC-119 Bypass around the west side of Mebane has been under construction for more than 4 years.  Although the new DDI was completed in record time, the rest of the project seems to drag on forever.  The next mile north was not opened until this past April, if I recall correctly (and that section is not quite half done).  Further north, he retained fill approaches on both sides of the bridge over the NCRR tracks (leased by Norfolk Southern) has been underway for most of that time, and still not totally filled to grade level.  Other projects in North Carolina seem to be delayed as well.  I can understand why NCDOT might need to halt a project due to funding/cash flow issues, but it makes no sense to doodle around for years on end.
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CanesFan27

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3641 on: September 14, 2020, 12:28:56 PM »

^

Actually since 1947 as a parkway, by 1967 it was enhanced to a freeway loop.

When I saw you correct it to 1947 - I was like I know it was well before 1967 when they opened the first section in 2003 or whenever it was they mentioned how it was well over 40 years in the making.

And proof:
The genesis of the superhighway now under construction dates to a June 1948 document from the city Planning and Zoning Commission that described the Loop as part of ďa comprehensive thoroughfare system for Greensboro, based on the existing form of the city, designed to meet present and future needs and yet flexible enough to meet any unexpected shifting.Ē

https://greensboro.com/news/local_news/years-of-road-planning-in-greensboro-takes-concrete-shape/article_f733e1a2-6f3e-11e7-ae00-e3274d83b4c0.html

the Wikipedia 840 article also mentions the 1948 plan.


I would classify this as a maybe at best, as in, Greensboro wanted loops.  But given some of the outermost loop in the 1948 plan was built and is not I-840's path, this may not be the genesis of I-840.

See pg. 13 here (easiest to download as a pdf) - http://libcdm1.uncg.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/UrbanDevGSO/id/632/rec/10

The outermost routings are not as far out as the Greensboro beltway in any direction.  Some of what was the outermost 1948 plan was built - Bryan Blvd and Cone Blvd are along its path.  The southern part of the outermost proposal is I-40 and I-85 Bus.  The easternmost leg is Franklin Blvd and the westernmost is Muirs Chapel Rd and Jefferson Rd

The Babcock plan (see pdf pg. 20 at https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.nc.gov%2Fncdcr%2Fhistoric-preservation-office%2FPDFs%2FER%252018-4253.pdf&psig=AOvVaw0YLlLwa54Q5Dflw4Qudtpz&ust=1599820430435000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAMQjB1qFwoTCLjLt-bH3usCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAK) is not substantially different from the 1948 plan.

The 1965 throroughfare plan has about 3/4 of I-840s path pretty close to what is built, but as part of two different loop/bypasses (they actually form a spiral).  See pg. 47 at http://libcdm1.uncg.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/UrbanDevGSO/id/6081/rec/9.  Of specific note is also on pg. 45 is they define the three loops first identified in 1948 which were all built to some degree.

I-840 is the combination of the US 29 Bypass (Painter and Hines Blvds.), the Southern leg of the Outer Loop (Frink Blvd), and a slightly altered east leg of the outer loop (Brower Blvd)


This 1967 report (see pdf pg 23) shows I-840's current path - http://libcdm1.uncg.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/UrbanDevGSO/id/347/rec/26

I did not locate a document that changed the plan to have the full Greensboro Beltway as being built but the change to have this was between 1965-67.

BTW, High Point was supposed to get a beltway too - http://libcdm1.uncg.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/UrbanDevGSO/id/7394/rec/10

Michael:

I would say that the Outer Loop evolved from those pre-1967 plans.  The News Record article mentions how the western side moved closer to the airport as a result of avoiding a controversial plan to be closer to Guilford College.   Thanks for the links - i was not aware of them and have cataloged them accordingly!

Adam
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3642 on: September 16, 2020, 10:17:08 AM »

As part of the I-40 widening project in the area, the loop ramp from I-40 West to US-70 West in Garner (Exit 306A) will be closed this weekend.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-09-16-i-40-west-loop-us-70-west-weekend-closure.aspx
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3643 on: September 21, 2020, 02:19:41 PM »

Now, for my toll rant. Have the turnpike projects in North Carolina been fair? No. There is no reason Greensboro and Winston-Salem should have new loops constructed toll-free while NC 540 "had" to be built as a toll project. Either they're all free or they're all tolled. Same with the widening projects. How was/is there funding to widen I-26 southeast of Asheville, I-40 southeast of Raleigh, I-85 northeast of Charlotte, and I-95 (at least a couple of billion dollars, Iíve lost count), but there was no funding to widen I-77? Every interstate should be widened to at least three free travel lanes before considering toll lanes.

New HOT lanes for somewhere like I-40 between Durham and Raleigh, or I-540 in northern Wake? Sure, go for it. New facility on new location? Fine. If you want to live in Holly Springs and have a convenient commute to RTP every day, you can pay a toll for a shiny new road (I know, just contradicted what I said above). Same with the Monroe Expressway, although it is part of a bigger piece of an important intrastate corridor that should have probably been a "free" bypass, but oh well....

Not that I really support it deep down, but some of the remaining bypasses could benefit from being tolled facilities if it meant expediting the projects, like Kinston and Wadesboro. Want to get to the beach faster? Pay the toll. Don't? OK, stop at the lights through town. I'd give away my first-born child to never have to drive through Shelby again.

However, I don't know if there'd be enough volume/demand or enough daily congestion through the smaller towns to warrant users to take the tolled route. That could result in high tolls to cover the costs, meaning no one would use it and result in losses. The rural bypasses are some of the most expensive highway projects to build, but donít always have the most benefit.

I'm sure it's written into law somewhere, but why can new projects not use a mix of traditional funding and tolls? Basically, have a low enough toll that would entice 95% of users to pay to use the facility, while the remainder of the cost is covered/subsidized by traditional funding. For example, pay something low like $2 to take a bypass around Kinston. Most people would probably pay that small of an amount for the convenience. Assuming the construction costs could be split 50/50 between tolled and Highway Trust Fund, this would knock the up-front construction cost down from $380 million to $190 million. That could accelerate this project and others, and free up tens of millions of dollars for other projects needed across the state.

Of course raising the federal gas tax for the first time since 1993 to keep up with inflation, increasing fuel efficiency and rising construction costs would be the easiest solution to increase revenue for highway projects, but who wants to pay another nickel per gallon? Thatís outrageous.

NC works really hard at attempting to be fair in allocating funds across the state, one with an unusually continuous spread out population. The resources must be spread quite thinly to all 100 counties though the needs are tremendous in all parts of the state.

Raleigh may have extra pressure put on it to not appear like it is receiving more funding than other areas, and that's why all the state agencies are housed in old, outdated, and leaky buildings. It's to suffer so that the rest of the state can afford what they need.

The reality is exactly the opposite of what Charlotte has always maintained that it was being shortchanged while the decision makers in Raleigh favored the Capital city and splurged on it. But Charlotte folks have a weird perception that they are all that's in the state, and the rural counties are something to disassociate themselves with and nothing of any worth, while Triangle residents recognize the whole state as more or less being equal in importance.

So you should do your research on all those new routes around the Triad and you'll discover that most were to replace old routes that didn't meet current safety standards. The new I-40 was built to avoid the hilly old interstate through Winston-Salem. The new I-85 South of Greensboro was to end having to got through the old interchange that merged with I-40 which was one of the most dangerous with all kinds of macabre nicknames.

I-540 could have remained as a free roadway, but it would have been 30 years before its importance warranted a massive chunk of funding competing with more urgent needs in other parts of the state. It is also a large loop, equal in size to Charlotte's outerbelt and I-285 in Atlanta. With Charlotte's outerbelt still not finished at that time, it wouldn't have looked good for Raleigh to be getting its 2nd loop funded by the whole state before Charlotte even had one yet.

Wake County is all Yankee now anyway and they have no problem with the tolling aspect as it will mainly be used by the transplants in Southern Wake anyway.

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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3644 on: September 21, 2020, 02:42:32 PM »

I think all the freeways in the Triangle should become managed facilities. Low/no tolls when uncongested; modest tolls to reduce congestion.


Ah, no, as a Triangle resident for 25+ years.  The tolls for "rush" hour will cause more traffic on the side roads and just shift the congestion.  The tolls now are ridiculous and truly unwarranted. 

Bad money management from the current and previous State Administrations have caused essential projects to be placed on the "back burner" for "pet" projects and electoral advantageous projects.  Example, Charlotte's loop completed with no tolls, electoral advantageous, Greensboro's loop no tolls, "pet" project.  The Triangle has the traffic loads equal if not greater than the Triad, if any tolls, I-840 should be tolled either with FHWA exception or downgrade it to a NC Highway so it can be tolled.  540 should not be tolled at all but, the State got it's way and now a revenue stream it will not let go of until it is forced to relinquish.

Refer to my explanation of what's free versus tolled above ^.

If they tolled US1 or other existing highways in the Triangle, then people would demand all their gas taxes paid over the last 25 years to be refunded, because that's what paid for the roads to be built.

US 1 has been the Gateway to Raleigh for every state in the Northeast for a long time, even before interstates existed.

It is the first impression of Raleigh for millions of people seeing it for the first time from the populous Northeast corridor.

I experienced what they see on an overnight bus ride home from NYC on New Years Eve 2003. At night it was a sea of lights not obscured by trees' summertime leaves that grew in density for quite a long duration. It was impressive, In the daytime it wouldn't have been because you'd see the rural appearance of US1 in Franklin and Northern Wake counties.

I don't want them to make this highway any less attractive than it already is, and converting it to more of a freeway doesn't sound pretty and it hurts businesses along the way too.

Tolls have always been scheduled to rise periodically to pay off the construction bonds, and they successfully refinanced the debt 2 or 3 times saving tens of millions in interest. Excellent money management is what you meant to say.

There are plenty of checks and balances to make what you're accusing them of doing almost impossible.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 02:45:58 PM by architect77 »
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3645 on: September 21, 2020, 04:41:53 PM »

So you should do your research on all those new routes around the Triad and you'll discover that most were to replace old routes that didn't meet current safety standards. The new I-40 was built to avoid the hilly old interstate through Winston-Salem.
IIRC, the I-40 relocation near Winston-Salem was built with 90/10 federal funding since the original I-40 was built as a state highway in the 1950s before the interstate highway system using state funding. I-40 through Raleigh was built in the 1970s and 1980s with 90/10 funding. I-440 was built as a US-64 / US-1 bypass in the 1960s and 1970s with state funding and was not designated an interstate highway until the 1980s.

With Charlotte's outerbelt still not finished at that time, it wouldn't have looked good for Raleigh to be getting its 2nd loop funded by the whole state before Charlotte even had one yet.
Technically Charlotte had I-277. Raleigh's northern I-540 and Charlotte's I-485 had portions both under construction in the 1990s and early 2000s.

US 1 has been the Gateway to Raleigh for every state in the Northeast for a long time, even before interstates existed.

It is the first impression of Raleigh for millions of people seeing it for the first time from the populous Northeast corridor.
US-1 may have been the historical route in for northeast -> Raleigh traffic, though it seems nowadays, especially with the completion of the US-64 / I-87 Knightdale Bypass, the prominent route in would be I-95 -> US-64. It's all 70 mph freeway vs. around 30 miles of 55 mph arterial along US-1, plus urban stop-and-go traffic from Wake Forest to I-440. It's also easier for north-south traffic to bypass Richmond-Petersburg by taking I-295 to I-95 South vs. I-95 through Richmond and Petersburg to I-85 South.

Now, once / if US-1 is ever upgraded between I-85 and I-440, it may be more attractive and could reduce some traffic on both I-95 and US-64.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 04:44:05 PM by sprjus4 »
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3646 on: September 22, 2020, 11:16:57 AM »

I think all the freeways in the Triangle should become managed facilities. Low/no tolls when uncongested; modest tolls to reduce congestion.


Ah, no, as a Triangle resident for 25+ years.  The tolls for "rush" hour will cause more traffic on the side roads and just shift the congestion.  The tolls now are ridiculous and truly unwarranted. 

Bad money management from the current and previous State Administrations have caused essential projects to be placed on the "back burner" for "pet" projects and electoral advantageous projects.  Example, Charlotte's loop completed with no tolls, electoral advantageous, Greensboro's loop no tolls, "pet" project.  The Triangle has the traffic loads equal if not greater than the Triad, if any tolls, I-840 should be tolled either with FHWA exception or downgrade it to a NC Highway so it can be tolled.  540 should not be tolled at all but, the State got it's way and now a revenue stream it will not let go of until it is forced to relinquish.

Refer to my explanation of what's free versus tolled above ^.

If they tolled US1 or other existing highways in the Triangle, then people would demand all their gas taxes paid over the last 25 years to be refunded, because that's what paid for the roads to be built.

US 1 has been the Gateway to Raleigh for every state in the Northeast for a long time, even before interstates existed.

It is the first impression of Raleigh for millions of people seeing it for the first time from the populous Northeast corridor.

I experienced what they see on an overnight bus ride home from NYC on New Years Eve 2003. At night it was a sea of lights not obscured by trees' summertime leaves that grew in density for quite a long duration. It was impressive, In the daytime it wouldn't have been because you'd see the rural appearance of US1 in Franklin and Northern Wake counties.

I don't want them to make this highway any less attractive than it already is, and converting it to more of a freeway doesn't sound pretty and it hurts businesses along the way too.

Tolls have always been scheduled to rise periodically to pay off the construction bonds, and they successfully refinanced the debt 2 or 3 times saving tens of millions in interest. Excellent money management is what you meant to say.

There are plenty of checks and balances to make what you're accusing them of doing almost impossible.

Missed the 25+ years as a Triangle resident, originally from PA, moved here in December of '93, my first impression with US 1 was a 2 lane road south of Henderson all the way to Wake Forest when it went back to 4 lanes.  So, that impression was scary for a true Metro area.  US 64 and I-95 was the alternate until US 1 was 4 laned and still pretty much the alternate for most Northeast travelers if they are going to the eastern areas of the Triangle.

Until I got closer to Raleigh itself and saw the Beltline, I-440, and I-40 South of downtown, was under the impression Raleigh was a city in middle of nothing but rural country for miles. 

With the growth of the Triangle the road system grew with it, decent pace for a while due to the steady income and management of that said income revenue.  By about 2005, the road projects seem to start slowing down, after I-540 reached Knightdale and the US 64 bypass, I-87.  The growth kept happening but, the project money went elsewhere.  This is also despite a Gas Tax increase that had to be capped from getting out of control and being the highest in the South.  Needs based construction was not done and still has not since then so, no more future tolls for the Triangle, except NC 540 and, start reevaluating is going to be needed to get the funding from projects that don't have a true needs base for completion.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3647 on: September 22, 2020, 01:57:05 PM »

Demolition work on the northbound US-701 bridge over the Cape Fear River in Elizabethtown has begun. A separate contract to replace both bridges with a single 4-lane bridge is planned to be awarded this fall.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-11-us-701-north-bridge-demo.aspx

The contract has been awarded.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-09-22-bladen-county-bridge-coming.aspx
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3648 on: September 22, 2020, 07:42:00 PM »

RE: US 70 Freeway conversion in Durham: I wonder why Aviation Parkway will not be controlled access between Glebe Road and US 70? It appears from the conceptual plans that NCDOT plans to extend Aviation Parkway in the future. I assume this extension will not connect with I-85 as a portion of the Northern Durham Parkway anymore.
where that diverging diamond cuts off, I'm sure it will still be extended. It's included in the CTP.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #3649 on: September 22, 2020, 09:17:18 PM »

I think all the freeways in the Triangle should become managed facilities. Low/no tolls when uncongested; modest tolls to reduce congestion.


Ah, no, as a Triangle resident for 25+ years.  The tolls for "rush" hour will cause more traffic on the side roads and just shift the congestion.  The tolls now are ridiculous and truly unwarranted. 

Bad money management from the current and previous State Administrations have caused essential projects to be placed on the "back burner" for "pet" projects and electoral advantageous projects.  Example, Charlotte's loop completed with no tolls, electoral advantageous, Greensboro's loop no tolls, "pet" project.  The Triangle has the traffic loads equal if not greater than the Triad, if any tolls, I-840 should be tolled either with FHWA exception or downgrade it to a NC Highway so it can be tolled.  540 should not be tolled at all but, the State got it's way and now a revenue stream it will not let go of until it is forced to relinquish.

Refer to my explanation of what's free versus tolled above ^.

If they tolled US1 or other existing highways in the Triangle, then people would demand all their gas taxes paid over the last 25 years to be refunded, because that's what paid for the roads to be built.

US 1 has been the Gateway to Raleigh for every state in the Northeast for a long time, even before interstates existed.

It is the first impression of Raleigh for millions of people seeing it for the first time from the populous Northeast corridor.

I experienced what they see on an overnight bus ride home from NYC on New Years Eve 2003. At night it was a sea of lights not obscured by trees' summertime leaves that grew in density for quite a long duration. It was impressive, In the daytime it wouldn't have been because you'd see the rural appearance of US1 in Franklin and Northern Wake counties.

I don't want them to make this highway any less attractive than it already is, and converting it to more of a freeway doesn't sound pretty and it hurts businesses along the way too.

Tolls have always been scheduled to rise periodically to pay off the construction bonds, and they successfully refinanced the debt 2 or 3 times saving tens of millions in interest. Excellent money management is what you meant to say.

There are plenty of checks and balances to make what you're accusing them of doing almost impossible.

Missed the 25+ years as a Triangle resident, originally from PA, moved here in December of '93, my first impression with US 1 was a 2 lane road south of Henderson all the way to Wake Forest when it went back to 4 lanes.  So, that impression was scary for a true Metro area.  US 64 and I-95 was the alternate until US 1 was 4 laned and still pretty much the alternate for most Northeast travelers if they are going to the eastern areas of the Triangle.

Until I got closer to Raleigh itself and saw the Beltline, I-440, and I-40 South of downtown, was under the impression Raleigh was a city in middle of nothing but rural country for miles. 

With the growth of the Triangle the road system grew with it, decent pace for a while due to the steady income and management of that said income revenue.  By about 2005, the road projects seem to start slowing down, after I-540 reached Knightdale and the US 64 bypass, I-87.  The growth kept happening but, the project money went elsewhere.  This is also despite a Gas Tax increase that had to be capped from getting out of control and being the highest in the South.  Needs based construction was not done and still has not since then so, no more future tolls for the Triangle, except NC 540 and, start reevaluating is going to be needed to get the funding from projects that don't have a true needs base for completion.

The one good thing Gov. McCrory did was to totally revamp how NCDOT allocated funding for road project.

No longer is 30% of highway funding equally given to every division. That took precious revenue from urgent needs and was spent in counties that had no need for it. One such project was the beginning of a loop for Henderson though it's only a couple of miles long.

Now every road project is evaluated and scored based on how much it will help a region's mobility in general along with other criteria.

The top scoring projects get the funding. In my home county of Franklin bordering Wake, the long promised (40 years) 4-laning of US401 finally got some funding in the 2000s, but once they switched to the needs-based scoring, it barely missed the threshold and was tabled. Needless to say everyone was upet. Only after their revenue exceeded projections in the late 2000s was the project active again. Thank goodness.

But I too am frustrated with the slow progress of all road projects in the state. How is it cheaper or better to take so long to complete these projects? Is the same construction company alternating working on several other projects simultaneously? We ain't got all day, I'm getting old, lol.

NC is one of the few states whose DOT manages all roads including county roads. The gas tax has historically been higher because of this, and counties would be taxing residents in other ways if they had to maintain their roads.

I like that NCDOT does it all, because there is consistency that's noticeable across the state.

The state has a highway trust fund that many states do not keep that makes money itself, though it has often been raided for other uses in times of budget shortfalls. I don't believe it is raided all the time, but during bad times it's a necessary evil.

I remember when US1 switched back and forth between 2 and 4 lanes North of Raleigh.  But in the early 90's the Triangle just had 900,000-1,000,000 people, only 700,000 in 1988 when I was at NC State. More than 2,000,000 live there now.

Believe me, NC is about the most prolific builder of new highways in the entire country except for Texas. NCDOT also maintains the 2nd largest network of over 80,000 miles of roads, Texas is number 1.

NCDOT also produces a lot with about $6 billion a year. Gas prices are higher in Atlanta so after paying more per gallon we get zero new roads over the last 25 years. Florida spends $13 billion a year on its roads and they are stellar.


NC spends about 2 million on maintenance of those 80,000 miles and uses $3 billion a year for new highways and improvements.
Where that same amount of revenue goes here in Georgia is beyond me so be grateful.

At the dawn of the automobile NC built good roads as it's way of keeping up with the Northeastern states, at one point having the most miles of paved roads in the country and earning the nickname "the Good Roads State".

Those roads are now aged and reaching the end of their service life much like in Pennsylavania.

NC puts out a report of the condition of the state's infrastructure every two years. The infrastructure is estimated to have a worth of $575 billion.

I've lived in GA, CA, NY, MA, and NJ  and I have more respect for NC's high standards now than ever. Very few other states hold themselves to the high standard that NC does for all state functions and agencies.

Georgia is utterly primitive in every aspect of the functions performed by the state. The DOT here erects signs on the side of the highway that last about 3 weeks before falling down.

While the I-85/I-40 duplex from Greensboro to Durham looks immaculate as it approaches 25 years of age. They do it right the first time and don't have to spend money on maintenance for a long time.

Even road enthusiasts on here that live in other states consider NCDOT among their favorites.

The gas tax in NC got a cap several years ago but that was to help it pass into law, and it mandated that from now on the tax would be pegged to rise with inflation so that its spending power wouldn't diminish too much.

My only gripe with NC is their reluctance to upgrade span-wire traffic signals with nicer mast-arm poles like every other state has been doing.

Raleigh is the span-wire capital and it looks sloppy.

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