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Author Topic: North Carolina  (Read 453313 times)

wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2850 on: August 09, 2019, 04:29:43 PM »

In the last few years North Carolina thunderstorms seem have become more violent (climate change, I suppose). There have been many cases of storms dumping multiple inches of rain in an hour, triggering flash floods and washing out roads, especially in places where older bridges are still in place. These are purely local events, so the federal government doesn't provide any assistance through FEMA. A single event of this kind is not a big hit to the budget, but if NCDOT has thirty of them it does make a difference.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2851 on: August 09, 2019, 06:29:51 PM »

Tropical storms and tropical storm remnants that cause massive rainfall is a fact of life in the southeast and middle Atlantic states, thruout U.S. history.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2852 on: August 10, 2019, 03:20:23 PM »


We're still waiting on federal money from Matthew three years ago. What about areas that didn't receive a federal disaster declaration? US 401 in June. How much to rebuild this road you've never heard of in Polk County and the failing drainage system above it on I-26?
What happened to that highway?

According to the rainfall basin from Matthew there was no significant impact that far west --
https://www.weather.gov/chs/HurricaneMatthew-Oct2016

It was not from Matthew or Florence, that's the point, just lots of rain recently. Same for US 401 in June. The video shows it closed in January 2019 if you bothered to watch it. Just massive rainfall that has led to landslides and wash-outs that aren't covered by a federal disaster declaration and is paid for by the state.

This was from an evening storm that wasn't spawned by a tropical system.





“NCDOT has spent $6.6 million on repairs associated to storm damage, not including repairs to Howard Gap Road,” Uchiyama said.

Not to mention all of the other washouts, culverts, etc. that are replaced.

Contract awarded to clear massive Highway 9 landslide (June 5, 2018; $1.49 million)

NCDOT clears nearly 200,000 trees after [winter] storms
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2853 on: August 10, 2019, 03:37:29 PM »

We're still waiting on federal money from Matthew three years ago. What about areas that didn't receive a federal disaster declaration? US 401 in June. How much to rebuild this road you've never heard of in Polk County and the failing drainage system above it on I-26?
What happened to that highway?
According to the rainfall basin from Matthew there was no significant impact that far west -
https://www.weather.gov/chs/HurricaneMatthew-Oct2016
It was not from Matthew or Florence, that's the point, just lots of rain recently. Same for US 401 in June. The video shows it closed in January 2019 if you bothered to watch it. Just massive rainfall that has led to landslides and wash-outs that aren't covered by a federal disaster declaration and is paid for by the state.
This was from an evening storm that wasn't spawned by a tropical system.
Those kind of storm events happen all over the country.  Nasty summer thunderstorms, high winds, trees falling on roads, sometimes flash floods (West Virginia has a lot of them).  Massive river flooding in the Midwest and plains states.

Storms don't have to be tropical to be covered by FEMA disaster funding.  Back when I was working in VDOT IT on the maintenance management systems, one of my tasks was to compile storm damage data for highways and bridges that had been damaged in a storm, to send to FEMA for federal reimbursement for emergency repair projects.  Some of the storms were local and not tropical and we usually got most of the costs covered by FEMA.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2854 on: August 10, 2019, 05:53:54 PM »

We're still waiting on federal money from Matthew three years ago. What about areas that didn't receive a federal disaster declaration? US 401 in June. How much to rebuild this road you've never heard of in Polk County and the failing drainage system above it on I-26?
What happened to that highway?
According to the rainfall basin from Matthew there was no significant impact that far west -
https://www.weather.gov/chs/HurricaneMatthew-Oct2016
It was not from Matthew or Florence, that's the point, just lots of rain recently. Same for US 401 in June. The video shows it closed in January 2019 if you bothered to watch it. Just massive rainfall that has led to landslides and wash-outs that aren't covered by a federal disaster declaration and is paid for by the state.
This was from an evening storm that wasn't spawned by a tropical system.
Those kind of storm events happen all over the country.  Nasty summer thunderstorms, high winds, trees falling on roads, sometimes flash floods (West Virginia has a lot of them).  Massive river flooding in the Midwest and plains states.

Storms don't have to be tropical to be covered by FEMA disaster funding.  Back when I was working in VDOT IT on the maintenance management systems, one of my tasks was to compile storm damage data for highways and bridges that had been damaged in a storm, to send to FEMA for federal reimbursement for emergency repair projects.  Some of the storms were local and not tropical and we usually got most of the costs covered by FEMA.

What are you not understanding? They-did-not-receive-a-federal-disaster-declaration.

FEMA rejects appeal to declare Polk County disaster area

"'After a thorough review of all the information contained in your initial request and appeal, we reaffirm our original findings that the damage identified in your request resulted from separate and distinct events, none of which were of the severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments,' FEMA Administrator Brock Long said, in part, in a letter to Gov. Roy Cooper."

From the other article you clearly haven't taken the time to read:

"In more than a decade leading up to 2016, NCDOT averaged about $65 million a year in weather-related expenses, due to hurricanes, flash floods, rock slides and snow and ice, Lewis said. In the last three years, that number has ballooned to $225 million a year, he said.

Two major hurricanes — Matthew in 2016 and Florence last year — caused much of the damage. But Lewis said there’s also been an uptick in other kinds of storms, such as the flash flooding in early June that washed out roads across the state, including U.S. 401 in southern Franklin County.

'That itself is just shy of $1 million,' he said of the repairs to U.S. 401, which were completed Friday. 'And we still have 20 roads closed across the state because of that June weather event.'"
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2855 on: August 10, 2019, 07:18:04 PM »

Storms don't have to be tropical to be covered by FEMA disaster funding.  Back when I was working in VDOT IT on the maintenance management systems, one of my tasks was to compile storm damage data for highways and bridges that had been damaged in a storm, to send to FEMA for federal reimbursement for emergency repair projects.  Some of the storms were local and not tropical and we usually got most of the costs covered by FEMA.
What are you not understanding? They-did-not-receive-a-federal-disaster-declaration.
FEMA rejects appeal to declare Polk County disaster area
"'After a thorough review of all the information contained in your initial request and appeal, we reaffirm our original findings that the damage identified in your request resulted from separate and distinct events, none of which were of the severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments,' FEMA Administrator Brock Long said, in part, in a letter to Gov. Roy Cooper."
I never said it was guaranteed.  But severe widespread road damage repair projects often do get FEMA funding.  In that case it may have been localized damage.  I can't judge whether that event should have received it or not.

From the other article you clearly haven't taken the time to read:
"In more than a decade leading up to 2016, NCDOT averaged about $65 million a year in weather-related expenses, due to hurricanes, flash floods, rock slides and snow and ice, Lewis said. In the last three years, that number has ballooned to $225 million a year, he said.
That is a whole mix of weather related items, including tropical storms and (implies) snow removal.

VDOT's 2018-19 winter budget for snow removal was $205 million.  That is what snow removal costs today in a state of about 8 million population.

I suspect that article has an incomplete accounting of all the items that it listed.

Two major hurricanes — Matthew in 2016 and Florence last year — caused much of the damage. But Lewis said there’s also been an uptick in other kinds of storms, such as the flash flooding in early June that washed out roads across the state, including U.S. 401 in southern Franklin County.
'That itself is just shy of $1 million,' he said of the repairs to U.S. 401, which were completed Friday. 'And we still have 20 roads closed across the state because of that June weather event.'"
That kind of damage happens in many other states, especially southeastern and middle Atlantic states that in addition to localized severe storms also get hit by tropical storms and tropical storm remnants.

Mountainous areas such as the Appalachians are prone to flash flooding from localized storms that have a lot of rainfall.  That can wreak havoc with roads and bridges.

So what sort of FEMA reimbursements did occur, how many millions of dollars?  Those two hurricanes definitely should have had lots of damages that were qualifying.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 07:23:39 PM by Beltway »
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2856 on: August 10, 2019, 08:29:34 PM »

In the last few years North Carolina thunderstorms seem have become more violent (climate change, I suppose). There have been many cases of storms dumping multiple inches of rain in an hour, triggering flash floods and washing out roads, especially in places where older bridges are still in place. These are purely local events, so the federal government doesn't provide any assistance through FEMA. A single event of this kind is not a big hit to the budget, but if NCDOT has thirty of them it does make a difference.

Ah, no, before Matthew and Florence, the last major storm was Floyd.  The tornado outbreak in 2011 was followed by the quietest summer in years.  There hasn't been a significant drought since 2007 and we have had record snowfall the past 2 years, where were you in January?  Also NCDOT has a Rainy Day fund for these events.
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D-Dey65

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2857 on: August 11, 2019, 09:29:17 AM »

The tornado outbreak in 2011 was followed by the quietest summer in years.
I still remember driving through the aftermath of that a week later, and I still kick myself for not taking a picture of the billboard ad for a strip joint in Dunn that was wrapped around a church along the southbound frontage road.


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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2858 on: August 13, 2019, 09:24:13 AM »

NCDOT has put the brakes on the proposed Cape Fear Crossing project in Wilmington since it did not score well enough in the draft 2020-2029 STIP to receive funding.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-13-cape-fear-crossing-update.aspx
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2859 on: August 13, 2019, 09:59:21 AM »

NCDOT has put the brakes on the proposed Cape Fear Crossing project in Wilmington since it did not score well enough in the draft 2020-2029 STIP to receive funding.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-13-cape-fear-crossing-update.aspx

A rather abrupt and sudden shutdown of the entire project.

That project always struck me as far too expensive for the needs and benefits.
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froggie

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2860 on: August 13, 2019, 10:00:50 AM »

^^  Note that they keep open the possibility of re-adding it in the future, though.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2861 on: August 13, 2019, 11:08:46 AM »

^^  Note that they keep open the possibility of re-adding it in the future, though.
If the MPO re-submits the project.  The language made it sound like all work has stopped, including selecting a corridor which was imminent.

The N.C. Department of Transportation will not continue planning and design work on the Cape Fear Crossing highway-bridge project at this time.

. . . the NCDOT had planned to select a preferred corridor by the end of the year.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2862 on: August 13, 2019, 11:48:09 AM »

NCDOT has put the brakes on the proposed Cape Fear Crossing project in Wilmington since it did not score well enough in the draft 2020-2029 STIP to receive funding.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-13-cape-fear-crossing-update.aspx
As mentioned in this press release, NCDOT has released the 2020-2029 STIP, though it is referred to at this time as the final draft due to the NCDOT Board not officially approving it until their September meeting. The STIP press release is at:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-13-cape-fear-crossing-update.aspx

roadman65

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2863 on: August 13, 2019, 10:43:40 PM »

Is I-285 signed yet?  I see that it was not on the 2019 Rand McNally and it took this long to get I-495 replaced with I-87.  Same state and same situation with a new route number, so was wondering if they also dragged their feet on this one.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2864 on: August 14, 2019, 12:04:26 AM »

Is I-285 signed yet?  I see that it was not on the 2019 Rand McNally and it took this long to get I-495 replaced with I-87.  Same state and same situation with a new route number, so was wondering if they also dragged their feet on this one.

On the ground it is, there's plans on the books for the overheads by this fall.
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40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2865 on: August 14, 2019, 09:00:02 AM »

NCDOT is planning to lay off hundreds of workers due to damage repair costs from recent hurricanes and Map Act settlements.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article233969157.html
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 09:05:45 AM by LM117 »
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2866 on: August 14, 2019, 09:46:34 AM »

NCDOT is planning to lay off hundreds of workers due to damage repair costs from recent hurricanes and Map Act settlements.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article233969157.html
Contract workers and temporary workers.  Apparently no salaried state employees.

This article like the one this newspaper posted a few days ago raises more questions than it answers.

So does this account for how highways like the Greensboro southern loop were build thru well developed areas with surprising ease?  At least it seemed that way at the time, like how did the land seem to be there without needing major acquisition of hundreds of houses and businesses?  Are they going back retroactively and granting settlements on highways that were completed 10 to 15 years ago?

How would this be a problem in rural areas?  Landowners could still use the land for farming and ranching.

Again, the figures for weather costs don't add up.
In more than a decade before Matthew, NCDOT averaged about $65 million a year in weather-related expenses, due to hurricanes, flash floods, rock slides and snow and ice, Lewis said.  In the last three years, that number has grown to more than $225 million a year

As I posted before, the annual budget for snow removal now exceeds $200 million for VDOT, and that is a state with about the same population and total public road mileage as N.C.  That is what it costs nowadays, it's very expensive.

So the claimed NCDOT figures are not remarkable.

Also, why not a word about FEMA reimbursements?  That could account for 50 to 70% or more of the funding for repairing disaster damage, at least that is typical.  Federal funding over and above normal FHWA allocations.
 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 09:53:56 AM by Beltway »
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2867 on: August 14, 2019, 10:48:09 AM »

Shot in the dark here, since NC has had a change in who was running the DOT, going to say it's the DOT Secretary trying to bilk something before getting shoved out in the next election, using the lawsuits and the storms as an excuse. 

Will be interesting to see what kind of BS they are going to give to the General Assembly next year when the DOT asks for budget help, stated in the article, have a feeling an audit is coming and the General Assembly is going demand more oversight if not the ability to review DOT Secretary appointments in the future.  Any attempt to raise the gas tax, moving the set cap, won't be until 2021 at the earliest and extremely unlikely.
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2868 on: August 14, 2019, 06:43:40 PM »

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-14-frog-level-road-closure-greenville.aspx

Quote
GREENVILLE – Part of a Pitt County road will close for a day this week so N.C. Department of Transportation contractors can install water lines under the road as part of the Southwest Bypass project.

Frog Level Road will be closed near Turnage Lane, between Bell Arthur Road and U.S. 13/264 Alternate, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Thursday, Aug. 15.

People wishing to access Frog Level Road from U.S. 13/264A will be detoured 1.5 miles along Bell Arthur Road to return to Frog Level Road. In the opposite direction, the detour will follow Bell Arthur Road and U.S. 13/264A to access Frog Level Road on the east side of the project site.

Drivers should slow down and be cautious near the work zone and allow for extra travel time because of the detour.
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2870 on: August 15, 2019, 12:59:58 PM »

A section of East North Dickerson Road just north of Kinston will close permanently due to the NC-148 (C.F. Harvey Parkway) extension project.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-lenoir-county-permanent-road-closure.aspx
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2871 on: August 15, 2019, 06:37:58 PM »

Bad news for Greenville commuters...

http://www.reflector.com/News/2019/08/15/Major-road-widening-projects-on-hold-because-of-NCDOT-budgetary-constraints.html
Stand by. Legislators are already talking about what might be done to address the cash flow problems at NCDOT. North Carolina loves to build roads.
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2872 on: August 15, 2019, 07:52:31 PM »

Bad news for Greenville commuters...

http://www.reflector.com/News/2019/08/15/Major-road-widening-projects-on-hold-because-of-NCDOT-budgetary-constraints.html
Stand by. Legislators are already talking about what might be done to address the cash flow problems at NCDOT. North Carolina loves to build roads.

I figured they would sooner or later.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2873 on: August 15, 2019, 07:54:10 PM »

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-pitt-county-highway-ramp-closure.aspx

Quote
GREENVILLE - A Pitt County interchange ramp will close beginning next week to be upgraded as part of the Southwest Bypass project.

Beginning at 9 a.m. Aug. 19, drivers traveling west from Greenville where Stantonsburg Road becomes U.S. 264 West will not be able to take the right exit ramp for U.S. 264 East toward Washington.

The ramp is expected to be closed until Aug. 30, weather permitting, to ensure the safety of the public and the contractor.

Until it reopens, traffic will be detoured through three exit loops at the interchange. Drivers will take a right just past the overpass and the two immediate right exit loops for U.S. 264 East.

Motorists should anticipate needing extra time for their commute and use caution when approaching the work zone.
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mrhappy1261

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2874 on: August 15, 2019, 07:58:01 PM »

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-pitt-county-highway-ramp-closure.aspx

Quote
GREENVILLE - A Pitt County interchange ramp will close beginning next week to be upgraded as part of the Southwest Bypass project.

Beginning at 9 a.m. Aug. 19, drivers traveling west from Greenville where Stantonsburg Road becomes U.S. 264 West will not be able to take the right exit ramp for U.S. 264 East toward Washington.

The ramp is expected to be closed until Aug. 30, weather permitting, to ensure the safety of the public and the contractor.

Until it reopens, traffic will be detoured through three exit loops at the interchange. Drivers will take a right just past the overpass and the two immediate right exit loops for U.S. 264 East.

Motorists should anticipate needing extra time for their commute and use caution when approaching the work zone.

It's coming along nicely... But yeah, I hate when people would have to go take 3 exit loops. I would go on B's barbeque rd and to w 5th st (NC 43) to go to washington. I would change that sign maybe to Bethel and Washington once 13 and 11 gets moved on the SW bypass.
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