The California State Road Gaps

[agentsteel53]

I agree the road gaps are frustrating.  There is definitely a need for the signage of touring routes in California.

I'm okay with using the spade.  I know Vermont distinguishes the state-maintained and town-maintained segments of its continuously numbered routes (using a circle vs. a television-set shield), but I think that is superfluous.  as long as the road quality isn't substantially diminished (as in your I-110 vs CA-110 example), the road marker can remain the same. 

that said, if someone brought back white spades for the touring routes, I would not object.

[NE2]

Legally speaking, when the state relinquishes control, they also relinquish their authority over the road.  I don't believe that CA has a requirement to sign state route shields on roads they don't control.  Yet it would be a good idea if the city or county put up signage.

The relinquished former portions of Route 2 within the Cities of West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, and Los Angeles are not state highways and are not eligible for adoption under Section 81. Those cities shall maintain signs within their respective jurisdictions directing motorists to the continuation of Route 2.

[Occidental Tourist]

Another example for the Los Angeles area. CA 90. Around Brea, it's a road that takes you from CA 39 to CA 91, but if you live near the airport it's the Marina Freeway.

CA 90 touring route from 91 to 57.  Marina Freeway should be renumbered.

The east end of 90 should be renumbered as an extension of CA 72.  It would be cheaper in signage to do that than renumber the western freeway portion.

[emory]

True. Another example I could use is FL 865 in Ft. Myers.

If you mean 867, isn't that signed TO 867 north of 884?

No I meant FL 865. It mostly exists as Lee County Route 865, but the San Carlos Blvd. portion and the portion of Ben C. Pratt/Six Mile Cypress Parkway between US 41 and FL 739 are maintained by FDOT, and are signed properly. However the whole route is signed with county or state shields so locals can still easily refer to it as "Route 865" if they so wish.

[Quillz]

Caltrans has long had a proposed CA-190 segment that would connect the two existing portions. That's in addition to the other proposal that someone posted earlier in this topic. But a combination of weather, elevation and protected wilderness areas means it will never be built.

[mrsman]

Another example for the Los Angeles area. CA 90. Around Brea, it's a road that takes you from CA 39 to CA 91, but if you live near the airport it's the Marina Freeway.

CA 90 touring route from 91 to 57.  Marina Freeway should be renumbered.

The east end of 90 should be renumbered as an extension of CA 72.  It would be cheaper in signage to do that than renumber the western freeway portion.

That's an interesting idea.  I'm so used to the days when I grew up in California during the 70s and 80s that CA 72 was Whittier and Harbor (the ancient 101 route), 39 was Beach-Hacienda-Azusa, and 90 was Imperial Highway from CA 91 to the 605.  Looking at a current map, it seems that CA 72 is west of CA 39 and CA 90 is east of CA 39, so combining Imperial Hwy and Whittier Blvd along one state route (CA 72) is doable.

[Indyroads]

CA-65 was probably supposed to be a Foothill bypass to CA-99.  Exit numbers in Roseville start in the 300s.

I remember seeing maps showing SR-65 going down Sunrise Blvd to US-50 although id don't think this was ever official. I do know however that there was an proposed eastside highway that was at one time planned to connect the two sections of SR-65. I don't know if those plans even still exist anymore. Could the central valley use another north south freeway, maybe. SR-99 is pretty congested, and with its planned upgrade to interstate it will only become more congested.

[BakoCondors]

I do know however that there was an proposed eastside highway that was at one time planned to connect the two sections of SR-65. I don't know if those plans even still exist anymore. Could the central valley use another north south freeway, maybe. SR-99 is pretty congested, and with its planned upgrade to interstate it will only become more congested.

An alternate north-south option to 99 would be a Godsend. Unfortunately, the land acquisition and construction costs push it into the realm of the Fictional Highways board. Not gonna happen.

[bing101]

how about Old CA-480 the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco it was supposed to connect to I-280 and US-101 covering the Northern part of San Francisco.

Or How about the proposed Southern Crossing I-380 to I-238 but was prevented by SFO.

[agentsteel53]

Caltrans has long had a proposed CA-190 segment that would connect the two existing portions. That's in addition to the other proposal that someone posted earlier in this topic. But a combination of weather, elevation and protected wilderness areas means it will never be built.

you could just, you know, use the roads that are already built.

[sdmichael]

CA-65 was probably supposed to be a Foothill bypass to CA-99.  Exit numbers in Roseville start in the 300s.

I remember seeing maps showing SR-65 going down Sunrise Blvd to US-50 although id don't think this was ever official. I do know however that there was an proposed eastside highway that was at one time planned to connect the two sections of SR-65. I don't know if those plans even still exist anymore. Could the central valley use another north south freeway, maybe. SR-99 is pretty congested, and with its planned upgrade to interstate it will only become more congested.

There used to be SR-65 postmiles south of Folsom Blvd down to around Route 16.

[DTComposer]

CA-65 was probably supposed to be a Foothill bypass to CA-99.  Exit numbers in Roseville start in the 300s.

I remember seeing maps showing SR-65 going down Sunrise Blvd to US-50 although id don't think this was ever official. I do know however that there was an proposed eastside highway that was at one time planned to connect the two sections of SR-65. I don't know if those plans even still exist anymore. Could the central valley use another north south freeway, maybe. SR-99 is pretty congested, and with its planned upgrade to interstate it will only become more congested.

There used to be SR-65 postmiles south of Folsom Blvd down to around Route 16.

The Caltrans maps from 1970 and 1975 show Sunrise as an "official" part of CA-65 between US 50 and Grant Line Road. North of there, it was "proposed - general route determined" following the Hazel/Sierra College corridor to I-80.

It was no longer on the map by 1977 - according to cahighways.org, the portion in Sacramento county was relinquished in 1975, only to be re-adopted in 1985 (although no longer on any "official" route).

[emory]

The east end of 90 should be renumbered as an extension of CA 72.  It would be cheaper in signage to do that than renumber the western freeway portion.

Actually, according to CalTrans logs, they plan to relinquish CA 72 once CA 90 reaches I-5.

[Occidental Tourist]

The east end of 90 should be renumbered as an extension of CA 72.  It would be cheaper in signage to do that than renumber the western freeway portion.

Actually, according to CalTrans logs, they plan to relinquish CA 72 once CA 90 reaches I-5.

I suspect that California 90 will reach the 5 the same day they complete the Embarcadero Freeway.

[kkt]

how about Old CA-480 the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco it was supposed to connect to I-280 and US-101 covering the Northern part of San Francisco.

Or How about the proposed Southern Crossing I-380 to I-238 but was prevented by SFO.

I thought the Southern Crossing was prevented by general lack of money, the San Mateo Bridge not being all that congested (as Bay Area bridges go), and lack of good approach routes from the east side.  I-238 ends at I-880 and there's about a mile of subdivisions between I-880 and the shore.

[TheStranger]

I thought the Southern Crossing was prevented by general lack of money, the San Mateo Bridge not being all that congested (as Bay Area bridges go), and lack of good approach routes from the east side.  I-238 ends at I-880 and there's about a mile of subdivisions between I-880 and the shore.

I wonder what halted the original Southern Crossing (the late-1960s plan to extend what is now I-980 west to Alameda and then to the US 101/Army Street interchange in SF) - the later 380/238 connection suffers also from being at the widest point of the Bay, which an Alameda crossing further north wouldn't have had to deal with.

[kkt]

I thought the Southern Crossing was prevented by general lack of money, the San Mateo Bridge not being all that congested (as Bay Area bridges go), and lack of good approach routes from the east side.  I-238 ends at I-880 and there's about a mile of subdivisions between I-880 and the shore.

I wonder what halted the original Southern Crossing (the late-1960s plan to extend what is now I-980 west to Alameda and then to the US 101/Army Street interchange in SF) - the later 380/238 connection suffers also from being at the widest point of the Bay, which an Alameda crossing further north wouldn't have had to deal with.

One thing was that they hoped BART would take enough traffic off the Bay Bridge that they hoped another bridge wouldn't be needed.  And BART did buy time, another Bay crossing would have been needed by the early 1980s if BART hadn't been there.

[jander]

Ca-146 used to go through pinnacles national  park, you can follow the old road bed when hiking.  The question is, when did they close the middle part, and was it ca-146 at the time.

[NE2]

Ca-146 used to go through pinnacles national  park

[citation needed]

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search?q=caltrans&sort=Date
1934 is the first to show what's now SR 146, and it already has a gap.

http://www.nps.gov/pinn/historyculture/index.htm talks about roads in the park and says nothing about being able to drive through.

[jander]

Citation, it was a road at one point, now its a trail.  Along the trail are informative signs about restoring it back to nature and the damage done to the stream due to the road.

That being said, its possible the road never truly connected, but it certainly went much farther in than it does now. 

[sdmichael]

Having recently hiked a portion of the trail in Pinnacles NP, I can safely say the road never went through. It did go further east and west, but never connected. The middle portion has a "talus cave" and is quite narrow. It would be difficult to even take a bicycle, let alone ride one.

[myosh_tino]

Having recently hiked a portion of the trail in Pinnacles NP, I can safely say the road never went through. It did go further east and west, but never connected. The middle portion has a "talus cave" and is quite narrow. It would be difficult to even take a bicycle, let alone ride one.

As someone who has also hiked that portion of the trail (granted that happened some 20-25 years ago), there is a bypass for those who don't want to enter the cave but there's no way that trail could have been an old alignment of CA-146.

[jander]

how about Old CA-480 the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco it was supposed to connect to I-280 and US-101 covering the Northern part of San Francisco.

Or How about the proposed Southern Crossing I-380 to I-238 but was prevented by SFO.

I thought the Southern Crossing was prevented by general lack of money, the San Mateo Bridge not being all that congested (as Bay Area bridges go), and lack of good approach routes from the east side.  I-238 ends at I-880 and there's about a mile of subdivisions between I-880 and the shore.

The freeway revolt in 1956 is what started putting nails on the coffins.   

http://burritojustice.com/2009/02/20/mission-freeway-30th-st-bart/

And for old maps, Eric's photostream will keep you busy for days.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/3889615209/

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=24431382@N03&q=southern%20crossing

[pderocco]

There's one more road into the western Sierra Nevada that may have existed on the east side as well, and thats 180 into Kings Canyon. Here's a 1941 map by the Automobile Club of Southern California that shows 180 emerging on Onion Valley Road into Independence:

http://historicalroadmaps.com/CaliforniaPage/DeathValleyPage/image2.html

Although you wouldn't expect the Auto Club to include some rumored or fantasized road in their maps, I've never seen any other map that showed this road as 180.

[sdmichael]

I have a 1939 Standard Oil of CA (HM Gousha) map showing SR-180 on Onion Valley Road as well. It does go back and still stands as the shortest gap between paved roadways in the Sierra Nevada. The second would be SR-168. SR-190, optimally, would traverse Sherman Pass Road and Great Western Divide Highway with a cosign with US 395 to Olancha from JNO Pearsonville.