EU plans to fit all cars with speed limiters

[ZLoth]

From UK Telegraph:

EU plans to fit all cars with speed limiters

All cars could be fitted with devices that stop them going over 70mph, under new EU road safety measures which aim to cut deaths from road accidents by a third.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

Speed limiters? Uh, no. Maybe a speed limit indicator on my dash. That would be helpful.

[corco]

Yikes. There's two ways to avoid an accident. Slow down, or speed up. Remove one of those two ways from the equation and fatalities will go up, not down.

[Takumi]

the plans, which could also mean existing cars are sent to garages to be fitted with the speed limiters, preventing them from going over 70mph

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no. One of the reasons I drive old cars is because I eschew overbearing technological crap like this.

[Brandon]

Note to EU, please see stupid experiment in US from 1974 through 1986 for further information.

[english si]

Won't happen - just as it hasn't the other 100000000 times the Eurocrats have proposed it. EU Commissioners like their high performance vehicles*.

The issue the Eurocrats have to overcome is not liberty: both state and personal rights.
Nor is it safety: for their propaganda has won that fight and decent arguments like corco's are ignored or treated with disdain
It also isn't getting the number right - this isn't a blanket 90km/h or 100km/h like those for trucks and coaches/buses/larger vans/minibuses (see below)
It's the jobs lost, the elites upset, and the pride lost with the death of the European Supercar for public consumption if there's a blanket 150km/h (or 130km/h) limit.

The worst thing about this proposal is the satellite tracking. And it's not just going to limit you to 70mph - it will limit you to the speed limit in that place! I guess Galileo has to be justified somehow - it's technology based on a war where the USA and EU aren't allies, and GPS is blocked: it needs a peacetime purpose and its peacetime purpose is to make our roads more dangerous by removing from people the need to work out a safe speed - just put the pedal to the metal and you'll be OK! Well, at least the speed limiter is the Trojan Horse for tracking vehicles (even in the 1984 dystopia that is 21st century UK, the Automatic Number Plate Recognition and CCTV systems that can track cars have masses of checks and balances in encryption and deletion of data)

*and they, the 27-member unelected (they are appointed by member states and confirmed by MEPs) executive - in the EU's bizarre way that the EU orders separation of powers - make the laws. The Parliament (elected by party list proportional representation by universal suffrage - so almost directly elected by the people) merely have the Veto stamp on the Executive's decisions.

[cpzilliacus]

The issue the Eurocrats have to overcome is not liberty: both state and personal rights.
Nor is it safety: for their propaganda has won that fight and decent arguments like corco's are ignored or treated with disdain
It also isn't getting the number right - this isn't a blanket 90km/h or 100km/h like those for trucks and coaches/buses/larger vans/minibuses (see below)
It's the jobs lost, the elites upset, and the pride lost with the death of the European Supercar for public consumption if there's a blanket 150km/h (or 130km/h) limit.

How active are the Greens at the EU level and how much power do they have?  This sounds like something that would originate with them.  There's no viable Green Party on the U.S. side of the pond, but the Sierra Club and its allied groups (NRDC and the Smart Growth industry) love stuff like this.

The unfortunate thing about such proposals is that they are usually  developed in deepest secrecy, and the "sprung" on an unsuspecting public.

The worst thing about this proposal is the satellite tracking. And it's not just going to limit you to 70mph - it will limit you to the speed limit in that place! I guess Galileo has to be justified somehow - it's technology based on a war where the USA and EU aren't allies, and GPS is blocked: it needs a peacetime purpose and its peacetime purpose is to make our roads more dangerous by removing from people the need to work out a safe speed - just put the pedal to the metal and you'll be OK! Well, at least the speed limiter is the Trojan Horse for tracking vehicles (even in the 1984 dystopia that is 21st century UK, the Automatic Number Plate Recognition and CCTV systems that can track cars have masses of checks and balances in encryption and deletion of data)

I don't see it going anywhere.

*and they, the 27-member unelected (they are appointed by member states and confirmed by MEPs) executive - in the EU's bizarre way that the EU orders separation of powers - make the laws. The Parliament (elected by party list proportional representation by universal suffrage - so almost directly elected by the people) merely have the Veto stamp on the Executive's decisions.

This is an issue that might infuriate EU voters - and, implicitly, MEPs.

[english si]

This is an issue that might infuriate EU voters - and, implicitly, MEPs.

MEPs don't have to care that much about what their constituents think - at least not as much as their party thinks. OK, smaller constituencies will have more accountability as not all parties will get someone, but even there, the party can drop you to second on the list and kick you out without the need for the voters to do anything.

I don't see it going anywhere either, but that the people don't like it means jack shit to Brussels. After all, they got Ireland to vote again on Lisbon, which itself was the EU constitution that the Netherlands and France rejected with the meaningless pomp removed (eg the EU anthem, the EU public holiday, etc) to pretend that it wasn't the same thing reheated. Corporations, political elites, astro-turf lobbying groups (ie artificial grass roots lobbying paid for with taxpayers money - mostly done by large charities/NGOs like Oxfam, WWF, Greenpeace, etc) are what Brussels is designed to hear, not the people.

As for the Greens - politically, the Green parties form part of the The Greens-European Free Alliance - which includes localists who want greater devolution/independence for Scotland, Wales, Corsica, etc (they are termed Nationalist, but Nationalist parties are either in the Eurosceptic the Communist block (Sein Fein)/url] or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_European_National_Movements]the Fascist block) and are typically Eurosceptic (though they side with Europhilic groups who see Westminster/Paris/Madrid as remote, but don't mind Brussels calling the shots most of the time). Greens in Europe are Localist, anti-Corporations and somewhat anti big-state, but they are pro big-NGO.

[Dr Frankenstein]

70 mph? The motorway speed limit is higher than that in most EU countries, when such a limit even exists!

[agentsteel53]

I guess Galileo has to be justified somehow

what does he have to do with anything?

[Road Hog]

Something like this will never be passed in any U.S. jurisdiction. Governments are too reliant on speeding fines.

[english si]

70 mph? The motorway speed limit is higher than that in most EU countries, when such a limit even exists!

UK-centric reporting from the Telegraph.

I guess Galileo has to be justified somehow

what does he have to do with anything?

Other than being a very over-rated scientist* who gave his name to the European Space Agency/European Union's sat nav system, nothing.

*seriously, his credibility comes from the political problems from the Pope, and the laughable science - seriously, tides showing the earth's rotation when it was obvious that they were linked with the moon's rotation and had been for centuries - what was Galileo smoking? - that led to his austraciation. Of course, he did do some good work on the Telescope, but that doesn't change the fact that Copernicus did the proper science before Galileo did his crummy job. Galileo gets the credit for heliocentricity as he came up with the right answer, but wrong reasons, in a place where Aristotle (who came up with geocentricism) still reigned supreme.

[NE2]

austraciation

Does this mean 'sent to a penal colony'?

[J N Winkler]

I guess Galileo has to be justified somehow

what does he have to do with anything?

It is not Galileo the astronomer English Si is talking about--rather, it is the EU's clone (currently under development) of the GPS satellites, which are currently under the control of the US military.

I basically agree with English Si's analysis.  There are too many constituencies that would be opposed to hard speed limitation to 70 MPH, especially given the fact that many EU countries have higher motorway speed limits (in some cases much higher).  The fact that this story appears in the Torygraph makes me suspect an attempt to stir up the ABD tendency, or alternatively an attempt to re-frame the debate so that the measure that is really wanted--such as mandatory installation of GPS-based, driver-selectable speed limiters in new car models--looks much more reasonable by comparison.

To the best of my knowledge, no cars currently sold in the US have driver-selectable speed limiters, but it is not uncommon for newer cars in Europe to have this feature.  It competes to an extent with cruise control.  The main difference between the two is that cruise control allows you to set the cruising speed and, when engaged, will maintain that speed automatically, while this type of speed limiter requires you to keep your foot on the throttle and, when engaged, will not allow you to go over the speed limit for the road segment you are on (as determined by GPS) minus a safety offset.  (Years ago I rented a Mercedes C280K with this type of limiter and the safety offset was apparently 5 MPH; this meant that when the limiter was set, I could go no faster than 25 MPH in a 30 MPH area.)

I dislike even selectable speed limiters and, judging from comments on a recent SABRE thread on this topic, it seems the general preference is for cruise control even among native-born Britons who are road and driving enthusiasts.  However, I can see speed limiters being much more appealing than cruise control to EU bureaucrats because they do not apply power automatically to maintain a set speed, which disposes of the scenario where a distracted driver forgets cruise control is engaged and is carried full speed into a collision.

[oscar]

To the best of my knowledge, no cars currently sold in the US have driver-selectable speed limiters, but it is not uncommon for newer cars in Europe to have this feature.  It competes to an extent with cruise control.  The main difference between the two is that cruise control allows you to set the cruising speed and, when engaged, will maintain that speed automatically, while this type of speed limiter requires you to keep your foot on the throttle and, when engaged, will not allow you to go over the speed limit for the road segment you are on (as determined by GPS) minus a safety offset.  (Years ago I rented a Mercedes C280K with this type of limiter and the safety offset was apparently 5 MPH; this meant that when the limiter was set, I could go no faster than 25 MPH in a 30 MPH area.)

The 1996 BMW 3-series I once drove had a trip computer with a button you could use as a speed limiter of some kind.  I don't know whether it actually prevented you from exceeding the set speed, or just sounded a buzzer if you were going too fast.  I, of course, never used that feature, so I wouldn't know.

[Takumi]

To the best of my knowledge, no cars currently sold in the US have driver-selectable speed limiters, but it is not uncommon for newer cars in Europe to have this feature.  It competes to an extent with cruise control.  The main difference between the two is that cruise control allows you to set the cruising speed and, when engaged, will maintain that speed automatically, while this type of speed limiter requires you to keep your foot on the throttle and, when engaged, will not allow you to go over the speed limit for the road segment you are on (as determined by GPS) minus a safety offset.  (Years ago I rented a Mercedes C280K with this type of limiter and the safety offset was apparently 5 MPH; this meant that when the limiter was set, I could go no faster than 25 MPH in a 30 MPH area.)

The 1996 BMW 3-series I once drove had a trip computer with a button you could use as a speed limiter of some kind.  I don't know whether it actually prevented you from exceeding the set speed, or just sounded a buzzer if you were going too fast.  I, of course, never used that feature, so I wouldn't know.

BMWs are limited to 155 MPH (most if not all of the M cars are capable of significantly higher speeds), and cars sold in Japan have been limited to 180 km/h (112 MPH) for decades; most JDM speedometers I've seen don't go above 190 km/h while the USDM equivalents are maxed out at 140-150 MPH in my cars.

[agentsteel53]

I don't think that counts as "driver selectable".

lots of cars have governors.  my 2001 Taurus threw itself into neutral when I hit 116mph coming down a hill once.

[Alps]

austraciation

Does this mean 'sent to a penal colony'?

Ya know what, I'm legitimately confused as to what word this is supposed to be. Ostracization? He wasn't ostracized so much as - well, he wasn't excommunicated either - censured?

[cpzilliacus]

This is an issue that might infuriate EU voters - and, implicitly, MEPs.

MEPs don't have to care that much about what their constituents think - at least not as much as their party thinks. OK, smaller constituencies will have more accountability as not all parties will get someone, but even there, the party can drop you to second on the list and kick you out without the need for the voters to do anything.

Good point.  Parties matter - a lot - in most parliamentary systems.

I don't see it going anywhere either, but that the people don't like it means jack shit to Brussels. After all, they got Ireland to vote again on Lisbon, which itself was the EU constitution that the Netherlands and France rejected with the meaningless pomp removed (eg the EU anthem, the EU public holiday, etc) to pretend that it wasn't the same thing reheated. Corporations, political elites, astro-turf lobbying groups (ie artificial grass roots lobbying paid for with taxpayers money - mostly done by large charities/NGOs like Oxfam, WWF, Greenpeace, etc) are what Brussels is designed to hear, not the people.

Hmm, this sounds more than a little like Washington, D.C.!

As for the Greens - politically, the Green parties form part of the The Greens-European Free Alliance - which includes localists who want greater devolution/independence for Scotland, Wales, Corsica, etc (they are termed Nationalist, but Nationalist parties are either in the Eurosceptic the Communist block (Sein Fein) or the Fascist block) and are typically Eurosceptic (though they side with Europhilic groups who see Westminster/Paris/Madrid as remote, but don't mind Brussels calling the shots most of the time). Greens in Europe are Localist, anti-Corporations and somewhat anti big-state, but they are pro big-NGO.

Many of the positions advocated for by the Nordic Greens are certainly very Communist-sounding.  Never mind that the Communist regimes of the Soviet Empire were some of the worst despoilers of the environment - ever.

Some similarities between the Greens and stateside environmental groups as well.  Many U.S. groups like the Sierra Club and EDF are most-effective at lobbying the legislative and executive branches of the federal government.  In most of the United States, an environmentalist endorsement is simply irrelevant come Election Day (though the Sierra Club especially will cynically support candidates who appear to be very favored to win and then claim credit for same).

[NE2]

Many of the positions advocated for by the Nordic Greens are certainly very Communist-sounding.  Never mind that the Communist regimes of the Soviet Empire were some of the worst despoilers of the environment - ever.

AKA the 'string shit together and hope nobody notices' school of logic.

[DaBigE]

I don't think that counts as "driver selectable".

lots of cars have governors.  my 2001 Taurus threw itself into neutral when I hit 116mph coming down a hill once.

Similarly, Ford now advertises this as one of the features of their MyKey system. Depending on which key is in the ignition, things like max speed or radio volume (among a list of others) can be limited for certain drivers.

[Takumi]

Apparently, no, it isn't happening. for now.
http://jalopnik.com/the-eu-isnt-really-planning-to-limit-all-cars-to-70-mp-1246413214

[Brandon]

Many of the positions advocated for by the Nordic Greens are certainly very Communist-sounding.  Never mind that the Communist regimes of the Soviet Empire were some of the worst despoilers of the environment - ever.

AKA the 'string shit together and hope nobody notices' school of logic.

To be quite frank, the Scandinavian countries have had a decent environmental record (while being more than a bit socialist), but the former Communist Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union had a very dismal one.  It's a bit of irony, isn't it.

[english si]

To be quite frank, the Scandinavian countries have had a decent environmental record (while being more than a bit socialist), but the former Communist Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union had a very dismal one.  It's a bit of irony, isn't it.

I should point out that the Nordic Green is simply part of the name of the 'Communist' block (they don't call themselves that) in the EU Parliament - sure there's a couple of Scandinavian green-left alliances in there (though only two of the Nordic Green-Left Alliance sitting in the EU Parliament). And even when you look at the Nordic Green-Left Alliance, the parties all have names like the Socialist People's Party and Left Party. There's not much Green there.

Ya know what, I'm legitimately confused as to what word this is supposed to be. Ostracization? He wasn't ostracized so much as - well, he wasn't excommunicated either - censured?

I meant ostracized - and he kind of was: excluded from the big boys table, laughed at (with good reason). He wasn't really censured, or we'd have not heard of him (the places where Rome had less-to-no control also found his ideas mostly laughable and he wouldn't have even got a look in there).

J N Winkler called him an astronomer - that's very true, and he was a good one when it came to making telescopes and seeing Jovian moons. However there's the myth (somewhat based in history, but not actually history) that means that he's some martyr for science and needs to be honoured with grand space projects named after him. Why not name the European GPS system after some famous navigator like Magellan or Cook? Or at least someone more competent in the field that Galileo is famous for - Copernicus or Kepler?

Good point.  Parties matter - a lot - in most parliamentary systems.

More so in systems where you vote for the party, and not the person. Like the EU one. Many European parties use the EU elections to give unelectable people an elected job. They also use the appointment of Commissioners to place non-entities/unelectable people and give them enormous power.

You kind of have that in the US, but the party (if not the public) openly chooses its candidates and the parties in a two party system, as well as making it a much more us v them, end up as very broad due to having to reflect the diversity of the nation: a Democrat from Idaho would likely see a Republican from Maryland as liberal on several issues. Party lists PR typically allow the party bigwigs to control and narrow the party.

[agentsteel53]

Why not name the European GPS system after some famous navigator like Magellan or Cook?

I think those names are probably politically incorrect these days.  the history of navigation is so entwined with colonialism that I can't think of any famous navigator offhand who hasn't been pushed aside in recent years.  Leif Erikson?

[kphoger]

Leif Erikson?

And that's only because he's an alternative to the nowadays-less-popular Christopher Columbus.