I-290 rebuild/expansion feedback

[dzlsabe]

Read this numerous times.... 

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

And it gets worse every time.

Imagine doing this and NOTHING gets better? In ten years. Kinda like the Mannheim project.

To NOT reanalyze the "study area" on pg. 41(46) is asinine.

Mr. Secretary, have you seen THIS?...

[ET21]

Express lane tolls proposed: http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/il-transport-secretary-considering-toll-booths-on-the-ike/1629568/

[johndoe780]

Express lane tolls proposed: http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/il-transport-secretary-considering-toll-booths-on-the-ike/1629568/

express lanes through what? 25th ave to austin?

They're not allowed to toll existing lanes. If they're going to add a "toll lane" from 25th ave to austin, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

if they add an additional 4th lane and 5th lane and toll the 5th lane, I'm ok with that.

[Rick Powell]

Express lane tolls proposed: http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/il-transport-secretary-considering-toll-booths-on-the-ike/1629568/

express lanes through what? 25th ave to austin?

They're not allowed to toll existing lanes. If they're going to add a "toll lane" from 25th ave to austin, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

if they add an additional 4th lane and 5th lane and toll the 5th lane, I'm ok with that.

There is a provision in the federal law that allows a state to first convert a general purpose lane to an HOV lane, then convert it to a tolled lane as long as "free" HOV use is maintained in that lane. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/revenue/road_pricing/tolling_pricing/section_166.aspx

[Brandon]

Express lane tolls proposed: http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/il-transport-secretary-considering-toll-booths-on-the-ike/1629568/

express lanes through what? 25th ave to austin?

They're not allowed to toll existing lanes. If they're going to add a "toll lane" from 25th ave to austin, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

if they add an additional 4th lane and 5th lane and toll the 5th lane, I'm ok with that.

There is a provision in the federal law that allows a state to first convert a general purpose lane to an HOV lane, then convert it to a tolled lane as long as "free" HOV use is maintained in that lane.

Still won't fix the problems with the Ike.  IDOT needs to understand that one cannot merge 5 lanes down to 3 without causing a major backup.  You have 2 lanes from I-88 east, 2 lanes from I-290 east, and 1 from I-294 north at that point.  The additional lane is needed so that 5 lanes merges down to 4, as well as proper rebuild in the area that eliminates the cloverleaf at 25th Avenue and the left exits in Oak Park (for the record, I'm fine with closing off access to Oak Park from the Ike).

[quickshade]

The problem is IDOT doesn't have the funding to do this. They are so behind on normal road upkeep and bridge repair that future improvements like this aren't feasible right now. Illinois current budget situation (we are broke) doesn't bode well for these kind of major projects. I did read an article that they also had plans to possibly sell it in the near future if the I55 deal worked out. So it could be that the tollway purchases it and dumps money into it.

[johndoe780]

The problem is IDOT doesn't have the funding to do this. They are so behind on normal road upkeep and bridge repair that future improvements like this aren't feasible right now. Illinois current budget situation (we are broke) doesn't bode well for these kind of major projects. I did read an article that they also had plans to possibly sell it in the near future if the I55 deal worked out. So it could be that the tollway purchases it and dumps money into it.

The roads constitutional amendment was passed. What's their excuse now? No one's siphoning money from their end anymore and the FAST act provided IDOT with $130 million dollars more annually.

[quickshade]

The problem is IDOT doesn't have the funding to do this. They are so behind on normal road upkeep and bridge repair that future improvements like this aren't feasible right now. Illinois current budget situation (we are broke) doesn't bode well for these kind of major projects. I did read an article that they also had plans to possibly sell it in the near future if the I55 deal worked out. So it could be that the tollway purchases it and dumps money into it.

The roads constitutional amendment was passed. What's their excuse now? No one's siphoning money from their end anymore and the FAST act provided IDOT with $130 million dollars more annually.

They are years behind on general improvements, road upkeep and upcoming projects that have been put off for years. So yes the finances from here on out are a little better but that doesn't change the 10 or so years that the funds were mismanaged.

[johndoe780]

The problem is IDOT doesn't have the funding to do this. They are so behind on normal road upkeep and bridge repair that future improvements like this aren't feasible right now. Illinois current budget situation (we are broke) doesn't bode well for these kind of major projects. I did read an article that they also had plans to possibly sell it in the near future if the I55 deal worked out. So it could be that the tollway purchases it and dumps money into it.

The roads constitutional amendment was passed. What's their excuse now? No one's siphoning money from their end anymore and the FAST act provided IDOT with $130 million dollars more annually.

They are years behind on general improvements, road upkeep and upcoming projects that have been put off for years. So yes the finances from here on out are a little better but that doesn't change the 10 or so years that the funds were mismanaged.

Poor accounting. How much did IDOT save from last year's mild winter? How much will IDOT save this year from low salt prices and  most probable less snow again this year?

Naperville itself saved $1 million last year from last winter than it budgeted for.

Maybe if IDOT stopped hiring crappy contractors who lay down poorly paved asphalt and started using portland concrete roads (especially since most of the IDOT highways get used by 18 wheelers more than anything) and move onto LED lighting like its sister agency-ITHSA, it wouldn't complain it's broke all the time.

IDOT can't keep complaining its not getting its money now that it's guaranteed that every penny that goes into license plate fees, drivers licences, and gas tax goes 100% into their highway fund. License plate fees have been raised $25 and drivers license renewals upped $20 since 2009.

Gas tax inflation, ok I'd give you that. I would be OK with a 5 cent gas tax increase. Nothing too dramatic, maybe even a 10 cent increase, but anything past that is pushing it. Even revolve it around gas prices. Say if gas prices is <$2.00/gallon have a 10 cent increase, but >$2.00/gallon, have a 5 cent increase or so.

[quickshade]

That's all great, but if someone steals money from you for 10 years and then all of a sudden you make it impossible to steal that doesn't change the fact that for 10 years you got robbed of money and couldn't complete all the projects you had on your TODO list. Saving a couple million here and a couple million there from mild winters is nothing when you need to invest a couple billion into major infrastructure improvement projects throughout the state. Again I agree that IDOT is mismanaged but blaming it all on them when they had their hands tied in some aspects isn't fair.

If IDOT had gotten the funding they needed for the past 10 years we might not be as bad off as we currently are.

[dzlsabe]

Somewhere between this stupidity... http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/il-transport-secretary-considering-toll-booths-on-the-ike/1629568/ which would be funded by who, IDOT? They are going into the tollway business? And Fup the Ike even more than it is for the better part of a decade?  With absolutely no clue or study to analyze if this will even solve the "problem".

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf
This is the biggest slab of salami Ive ever seen thrown at a wall to see if it sticks. It WILL NOT.

And on the other side of the stupidity coin, a trans Lake Michigan bridge or tunnel? 

A solution lies in between or on the edge.

[The Ghostbuster]

Toll booths? Why can't they collect the tolls electronically? Toll booths are so 20th-century.

[Rick Powell]

Toll booths? Why can't they collect the tolls electronically? Toll booths are so 20th-century.

There are a lot of story lede writers who will use a euphemism like "toll booths" as a story heading even when there is no intent to actually have a toll plaza anywhere. Any new tolling project in the Chicago area, as well as all new ISTHA interchanges, will likely be ETC only.

[The Ghostbuster]

That makes complete sense. Thank you Rick Powell!

[hobsini2]

oh good Godt DZ. Your Hypo I-90 idea thread was killed. Why in Godt's name would you start up with that bullshit again? Don't answer. We know. It's your bloody ego. Please do not ruin this thread with your idea.

[dzlsabe]

Killed by whom? Two dozen "road geeks"? Highway planners that apparently can not read a road map? Its simple physics. If you want to put the ball in the cup, or make that hard shot in the corner pocket, you HAVE to hit the ball in the exact right spot. Close is NOT "good enough".

The "problem" with the Ike (or Strangler) is NOT because of the Ike. Downtown Chicago is not at the south end of the lake. That is where the "pinch point" is (ie Indiana). No amount of widening the Ike, Ryan or Tri state is going to change that.

*mic drop*

[GeekJedi]

Killed by whom? Two dozen "road geeks"? Highway planners that apparently can not read a road map? Its simple physics. If you want to put the ball in the cup, or make that hard shot in the corner pocket, you HAVE to hit the ball in the exact right spot. Close is NOT "good enough".

The "problem" with the Ike (or Strangler) is NOT because of the Ike. Downtown Chicago is not at the south end of the lake. That is where the "pinch point" is (ie Indiana). No amount of widening the Ike, Ryan or Tri state is going to change that.

*mic drop*

You're right. It hasn't been killed, because it's never been taken seriously.

*mic drop*

[I-39]

Just rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes in each direction, four general travel lanes and one HOV toll lane. Enough of this debating.

Little less conversation, little more action please!

[Joe The Dragon]

Just rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes in each direction, four general travel lanes and one HOV toll lane. Enough of this debating.

Little less conversation, little more action please!

or change the law and make it full toll.

[dzlsabe]

Killed by whom? Two dozen "road geeks"? Highway planners that apparently can not read a road map? Its simple physics. If you want to put the ball in the cup, or make that hard shot in the corner pocket, you HAVE to hit the ball in the exact right spot. Close is NOT "good enough".

The "problem" with the Ike (or Strangler) is NOT because of the Ike. Downtown Chicago is not at the south end of the lake. That is where the "pinch point" is (ie Indiana). No amount of widening the Ike, Ryan or Tri state is going to change that.

*mic drop*

You're right. It hasn't been killed, because it's never been taken seriously.

*mic drop*

You dont know that, neither do I. Are you not the least bit curious as to what "C11 OTHER" on page 26 of the EIS contains? IDOT has had this map hand delivered to them numerous times and they have heard it at CMAP as well.

And I will sure bet I-90 Hypo would carry more traffic in a day than that slacker hypo I-43 does. Maybe in a week? How did THAT ever get taken seriously? GEEK 

[edwaleni]

After making increased capital funding commitments to Metra in the 1990's, and reworking the Strangler,  IDOT said they were going to "sleep" on the Ike for at least 25 years to allow the transit side to grow. Time to "wake up". (Metra has grown really well since)

Having driven it mega times in my life, my thoughts on any Ike expansion has alot of issues to make it work and many are pretty expensive.

Some of the largest limitations are the Forest Home Cemetery in Forest Park, many graves were relocated when the Ike was originally built and it caused some lawsuits even back then.

The other issue is a real estate bottleneck between Austin and Harlem in Oak Park.  The road is below grade here and shares ROW with the CTA and CSXT/BR. Something would have to give.

So here is my take, recover some of the real estate that was set aside by IDOT back in the 1950's for the long defunct CA&E interurban to run along side the CTA to reach their Wells Street Station.  CA&E couldn't afford to pay for the elevation at Racine that took them to the old elevated down Van Buren and to Wells.  That is why there is so much unused space in the CTA ROW here. For the trivia minded, a vestige of the CA&E Wells Street Station still stands at 331 Franklin, the CTA uses it to store trucks and shoes. This defunct ROW is also why there is an unused tunnel under the eastbound Ike between Central and Laramie. (The IDOT yard at Flournoy and Laramie used to be the CA&E "turnabout" when they lost access to the Loop during Ike construction)

Another trivia about the Ike.  The land the Ike uses from 1st Ave to 25th in Maywood originally belonged the CA&E. They were acquiring ROW along here to move their trains out of the residential sections of Maywood. When the CA&E lost their access to the Loop, they ended up selling the land to IDOT so the Ike could continue west.

That will help as far out as Keeler. The other bottleneck will be at Lexington where the Indiana Harbor Belt crosses over. Lexington Street would have to be removed completely along with a complete replacement of the IHB overpass.

From Central west, the only realistic option is to steal ROW from the CSXT and elevate it so the the Ike can expand underneath.

It's either this or create a multi deck structure where reversible/HOV rides on a top deck which permits eastbound in the AM and changes to westbound for evening rush.

Either way you look at it, it will be a lot of $$$.

Why does the Reagan (I-88) split in two and make the big jog north to reach I-290?  Because Mayor Butler of the new town of Oakbrook didn't want the ROW to split his (very wealthy) town in two when it reached the Tri-State.  I-88 was originally supposed to terminate just south of Cermak and I-295.

But this is what caused the Strangler to form. Then Mayor Richard Daley (first) furious that the Toll Authority had moved the ROW north and gave west suburbanites easier access to what was called the Congress Expressway at the time, they built the connector to I-290 with only 1 lane. Even after the Reagan was expanded to 3 lanes each side, that silly connector stayed at 1 lane.  Old Mayor Daley wanted the expressway to end at Central and go no further. (it did so for a few years). Daley's control over not just Chicago, but Cook County politics was that tough. (the connector crosses over the DuPage/Cook County lines) Fortunately its better than it used to be.

The story to get the Ike built is just as tough as the story it will be to get it upgraded.

[johndoe780]

Just rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes in each direction, four general travel lanes and one HOV toll lane. Enough of this debating.

Little less conversation, little more action please!

and create a ROW in the median for future, if ever, blue line extension.

[dzlsabe]

"JUST rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes". There is NO just here. Thats the problem. And to SHUT DOWN the ONLY EW interstate through the area is ________.

Or JUST BYPASS the Ike completely with a new 8 MILE road to the Stevenson. EIGHT MILES

Just READ this hoax of an EIS...there are no engineering or cost estimates for any of the various schemes or their impacts afaik. Has there been an update to this since April of 2013. If ya want a good laugh, find the errors on Figure 1-4, page 7. My fav is I-88 the N-S road on the west border.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf


See map on page 12 of this... http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/27214/CMAP-FreightReportFULL-07-11-12.pdf/622f29bf-572c-4b79-afff-110d880091a8    Careful, its TL; so DR if you CR

[ET21]

"JUST rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes". There is NO just here. Thats the problem.

Or JUST BYPASS the Ike completely with a new 8 MILE road to the Stevenson. EIGHT MILES

No

Just rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes in each direction, four general travel lanes and one HOV toll lane. Enough of this debating.

Little less conversation, little more action please!

and create a ROW in the median for future, if ever, blue line extension.

One could only hope, least we have some CTA expansion with the Red Line going southward more

[I-39]

"JUST rebuild/expand the highway to five lanes". There is NO just here. Thats the problem. And to SHUT DOWN the ONLY EW interstate through the area is ________.

Or JUST BYPASS the Ike completely with a new 8 MILE road to the Stevenson. EIGHT MILES

Just READ this hoax of an EIS...there are no engineering or cost estimates for any of the various schemes or their impacts afaik. Has there been an update to this since April of 2013. If ya want a good laugh, find the errors on Figure 1-4, page 7. My fav is I-88 the N-S road on the west border.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

Good luck trying to get environmental approval for your Hypotenuse.

Now, back to the adult discussion................