AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Renumberings due to sign theft  (Read 23993 times)

kinupanda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 57
  • Age: 36
  • Location: San Antonio
  • Last Login: July 01, 2019, 06:21:06 PM
    • kinupanda.com
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 12:01:18 AM »

On a related note, I wonder if any of the DOTs have decided to stop replacing their mile markers that correspond to those numbers.

I-10 East at mile marker 666 (Google Street View). An ordinary object marker is used. The same is done westbound.
Logged

Molandfreak

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1752
  • Age: 24
  • Last Login: July 17, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2014, 12:28:35 AM »

St. Louis County stil has a CR 666. I doubt anyone cares enough about stealing signs to drive to Hoyt Lakes (the locals don't care/have them already :) ). http://goo.gl/maps/mzLIz
Logged

roadman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3671
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Last Login: July 19, 2019, 02:09:02 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2014, 08:18:23 PM »

Lots of myths abound about the US 666 renumbering. It wasn't done because of sign theft or because of undue pressure from religious fundamentalists, despite some of the things that got posted on MTR at the time it happened.
The only reason people care about 666 is religious fundamentalists. Owned.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us666.cfm
Logged
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

StogieGuy7

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 242
  • Location: Kenosha area, WI
  • Last Login: July 16, 2019, 01:56:31 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2014, 08:30:25 PM »

Lots of myths abound about the US 666 renumbering. It wasn't done because of sign theft or because of undue pressure from religious fundamentalists, despite some of the things that got posted on MTR at the time it happened.
The only reason people care about 666 is religious fundamentalists. Owned.

Not exactly. US 666 was changed to US 491 due to the well-known Satanic connotation (you don't have to be a Bible beater to know that, just a fan of horror films), combined with the very high mortality rate connected with the highway.  As many of you may know, Indian reservations (yes, that's what they're still called) often have high rates of alcoholism and DUI and US 666 serves several such reservations, the largest of which is the Navajo Nation. 

The continued bloodbath on that particular road led to the inevitable cultural connection between that and the "666" moniker which, in turn, led to political pressure from local politicians in the areas through which the highway travels for a change in number.  I even recall a Dateline NBC report referring to it as the "Devil's Highway" or some such nonsense.

In the end, it was nothing more than superstition dressed up as public relations.   And, I don't doubt that highway departments in UT, CO, and NM lost tons of signs from souvenir hunters as well.  But I can assure you that it actually had very little to do with religious fundamentalists. 
Logged

Occidental Tourist

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 365
  • Last Login: July 19, 2019, 12:36:35 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2014, 08:47:48 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
Logged

hbelkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13244
  • It is well, it is well, with my soul.

  • Age: 57
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Last Login: July 19, 2019, 01:52:10 PM
    • Millennium Highway
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2014, 09:21:33 PM »

Quote
We must coordinate the business interests of Native Americans and the state. After years of neglect in Santa Fe, I am proud to announce my wholehearted support for the renovation of Highway 666 (a name we are working to change) from Gallup to Shiprock, on the Navajo Nation, and I have directed the secretary of transportation to cooperate fully with the Navajo Nation in this effort.

The renumbering was done in conjunction with and part of an improvement project in New Mexico. And Gov. Bill Richardson is hardly a Bible-thumping fundamentalist.
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6048
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: Today at 02:35:12 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2014, 09:26:31 PM »

News stories and press releases prove me wrong?  Like nobody has ever lied in a news story?  Nobody has ever made shit and put it in a press release?  C'mon man.  The government couldn't come out and say the real reason they renumbered the highway because the ACLU would be all over it.  Use your common sense and quit blindly believing news stories.  There is no question that the number was changed because of a bunch of whiny Fundamentalist Christians wouldn't shut up about it.  No question.
Logged
This signature has been censored by the AARoads Bureau of Morality.

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6048
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: Today at 02:35:12 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2014, 09:27:35 PM »

Lots of myths abound about the US 666 renumbering. It wasn't done because of sign theft or because of undue pressure from religious fundamentalists, despite some of the things that got posted on MTR at the time it happened.
The only reason people care about 666 is religious fundamentalists. Owned.

Not exactly. US 666 was changed to US 491 due to the well-known Satanic connotation (you don't have to be a Bible beater to know that, just a fan of horror films), combined with the very high mortality rate connected with the highway.  As many of you may know, Indian reservations (yes, that's what they're still called) often have high rates of alcoholism and DUI and US 666 serves several such reservations, the largest of which is the Navajo Nation. 

The continued bloodbath on that particular road led to the inevitable cultural connection between that and the "666" moniker which, in turn, led to political pressure from local politicians in the areas through which the highway travels for a change in number.  I even recall a Dateline NBC report referring to it as the "Devil's Highway" or some such nonsense.

In the end, it was nothing more than superstition dressed up as public relations.   And, I don't doubt that highway departments in UT, CO, and NM lost tons of signs from souvenir hunters as well.  But I can assure you that it actually had very little to do with religious fundamentalists.

Changing the number caused the number of wrecks to go down?
Logged
This signature has been censored by the AARoads Bureau of Morality.

Molandfreak

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1752
  • Age: 24
  • Last Login: July 17, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2014, 10:38:46 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.
Logged

SD Mapman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 993
  • The best pace is a pace, and today is a good day.

  • Location: Running somewhere in Lawrence County
  • Last Login: June 08, 2019, 12:20:53 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2014, 11:28:16 PM »

Personally, I was sad when 666 disappeared from the Rand McNally atlases (I don't get down there much). Ever since then, I've harbored a suspicion that it had to do with "the Devil's number", but whatever.

News stories and press releases prove me wrong?  Like nobody has ever lied in a news story?  Nobody has ever made shit and put it in a press release?  C'mon man.  The government couldn't come out and say the real reason they renumbered the highway because the ACLU would be all over it.  Use your common sense and quit blindly believing news stories.  There is no question that the number was changed because of a bunch of whiny Fundamentalist Christians wouldn't shut up about it.  No question.

Now don't get too firey here... you're probably insulting about 70% of the Midwest in that comment...
Logged
The traveler sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. - G.K. Chesterton

Molandfreak

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1752
  • Age: 24
  • Last Login: July 17, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2014, 12:09:22 AM »

News stories and press releases prove me wrong?  Like nobody has ever lied in a news story?  Nobody has ever made shit and put it in a press release?  C'mon man.  The government couldn't come out and say the real reason they renumbered the highway because the ACLU would be all over it.  Use your common sense and quit blindly believing news stories.  There is no question that the number was changed because of a bunch of whiny Fundamentalist Christians wouldn't shut up about it.  No question.

Now don't get too firey here... you're probably insulting about 70% of the Midwest in that comment...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13823
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 12:20:34 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2014, 12:14:23 AM »

The only reason people care about 666 is religious fundamentalists. Owned.

Not exactly. US 666 was changed to US 491 due to the well-known Satanic connotation (you don't have to be a Bible beater to know that, just a fan of horror films),
Er no. This "Satanic connotation" only exists because of fundamentalists' love for taking the drunken ramblings of Revelations literally.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

Takumi

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3625
  • #yogapantsbutnotstance

  • Age: 33
  • Location: Greater Richmond
  • Last Login: June 24, 2019, 07:53:13 AM
    • Flashing Lights (blog)
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2014, 12:40:06 AM »

Am I too late for popcorn?
Logged
Don't pick apart my vision of complete psychotic breakdown, please.  I'm trying to make a point here.

Insta | Kinja

Molandfreak

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1752
  • Age: 24
  • Last Login: July 17, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2014, 03:06:46 AM »

On a related note, I wonder if any of the DOTs have decided to stop replacing their mile markers that correspond to those numbers. 
Colorado posts mile marker 419.99 in lieu of 420 on I-70.



Nebraska shows no mercy--they didn't even renumber exit #420! http://goo.gl/maps/rLlC7
Logged

CNGL-Leudimin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2476
  • When in doubt, US 41

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Across the pond
  • Last Login: July 19, 2019, 07:23:12 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2014, 04:30:11 AM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.

I wonder the same with 420. OTOH, I know why 69 :sombrero:.
Logged
I now have a YouTube channel. However the main purpose of it is to chat in BigRigTravels streams, so don't expect any videos from me.

All times Eastern unless otherwise noted.

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9917
  • Age: 44
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 07:42:38 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2014, 06:22:58 AM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.

And pictures.  Don't forget the pictures. 
Logged

english si

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3475
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Buckinghamshire, England
  • Last Login: May 21, 2019, 07:30:10 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2014, 08:46:59 AM »

Er no. This "Satanic connotation" only exists because of fundamentalists' love for taking the drunken ramblings of Revelations literally.
The genre of Apocalypse is something that we're so unfamiliar with, and culturally alien to, makes us think that drugs must have been used, but it's merely that the past is a different country and they do stuff differently there. However it's a genre whose writings always packed full of Temple imagery and Tanakh/Old Testament allusions. That the fundies don't spot this shows that they neither know the Bible well enough, nor take it seriously enough.

The most obvious way in which fundies don't take Revelation literally, nor the Bible seriously is when they say that "locusts" refers to helicopters, rather than the Old Testament meaning of destruction bringers (which is also much more literal as that is what locusts do). On top of the silly interpretation, this means that they view the text as being meaningless until about 1950, rather than something that the clearly stated original audience of turn-of-the-second-century Asian Christians would instantly get - if it read like drunken ramblings to the 7 churches, then they'd have ignored it, rather than copied it.

There's three main ways to read (any) text -> author-centred, text-centred and reader-centred (and, of course, you can have a mix of that). While fundies read the Bible text-centred, and conservative Christians (there's a difference) are typically author-centred (might also bring in text-centred readings), all fundies and many conservatives get to Revelation and read it reader-centred, despite despising any whiff of that approach elsewhere. 666 seems to be an odd exception, where they do take it explicitly literally but I think that's due to a transfer of it from Medieval superstition (along with Triskaidekaphobia).

In other words, the fundies interpretation is as if they were drunkenly rambling when reading Revelation, not John when writing!

---
If fundies had got their way, then 666 roads wouldn't exist. But if it's sign theft, it's due to people seeking to piss them off.

Which of course, brings us to 13 -> I doubt there are any examples of sign theft, but how many were just never created in the first place?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 08:51:23 AM by english si »
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13823
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 12:20:34 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2014, 09:17:37 AM »

Which of course, brings us to 13 -> I doubt there are any examples of sign theft, but how many were just never created in the first place?
California renumbered 13 to 17 in the 1930s for no apparent reason other than the number.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

Brandon

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10293
  • Mr. Accelerator is our friend; Mr. Brake is not.

  • Age: 42
  • Location: Joliet, IL
  • Last Login: Today at 06:35:42 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2014, 10:28:32 AM »

Personally, I was sad when 666 disappeared from the Rand McNally atlases (I don't get down there much). Ever since then, I've harbored a suspicion that it had to do with "the Devil's number", but whatever.

News stories and press releases prove me wrong?  Like nobody has ever lied in a news story?  Nobody has ever made shit and put it in a press release?  C'mon man.  The government couldn't come out and say the real reason they renumbered the highway because the ACLU would be all over it.  Use your common sense and quit blindly believing news stories.  There is no question that the number was changed because of a bunch of whiny Fundamentalist Christians wouldn't shut up about it.  No question.

Now don't get too firey here... you're probably insulting about 70% of the Midwest in that comment...

The Midwest?  Most of those I run into are from the South (as is Oklahoma).  The majority of them are in the "East South Central" (TN, KY, MS, AL) (65% of respondents) and the 'West South Central" (TX, AR, OK) (50% of respondents).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity
Logged
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

Illinois: America's own banana republic.

Screw the KSA; Stand with Canada.

Zeffy

  • Revved to Redline
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4388
  • Age: 25
  • Location: Doylestown, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: July 12, 2019, 02:55:21 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2014, 10:54:49 AM »

Which of course, brings us to 13 -> I doubt there are any examples of sign theft, but how many were just never created in the first place?

New Jersey has a 13... but it's completely unsigned save for this sign:


Courtesy of Alpsroads.net
Logged
Life's too short to play it safe.

Exploring roads in my 2018 Honda Civic Type R. Hopefully those roads are free of potholes :D

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13823
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 12:20:34 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 11:00:16 AM »

New Jersey has a 13... but it's completely unsigned save for this sign:
13 was skipped in the 1920s - but so were 14-20.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

mgk920

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3357
  • Location: Appleton, WI USA
  • Last Login: Today at 11:05:26 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 11:06:49 AM »

Wisconsin has a WI 13, it's a major highway that runs most of the length of the state from north to south, and originally the entire length of the state.  There is also a WI 69, but has remarkably few reassurance signs.

More locally, although not a numbered highway, the City of Appleton's city council changed a street name several years ago due to rampeant sign theft - a minor residential side street (a cul-de-sac with about six houses) was platted with the name 'Morningwood Ct'.  After a few years of having to frequently replace the sign at its lone intersection, it was changed to 'Morningview Ct'.

 :meh:

Mike
Logged

Zeffy

  • Revved to Redline
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4388
  • Age: 25
  • Location: Doylestown, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: July 12, 2019, 02:55:21 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2014, 11:11:49 AM »

13 was skipped in the 1920s - but so were 14-20.

Wait what? This page says it ran from Trenton to New Brunswick:
http://www.jimmyandsharonwilliams.com/njroads/1920s/route13.htm

Now I'm confused.
Logged
Life's too short to play it safe.

Exploring roads in my 2018 Honda Civic Type R. Hopefully those roads are free of potholes :D

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13823
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 12:20:34 AM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2014, 11:16:31 AM »

13 was skipped in the 1920s - but so were 14-20.

Wait what? This page says it ran from Trenton to New Brunswick:
http://www.jimmyandsharonwilliams.com/njroads/1920s/route13.htm

Now I'm confused.
There was a complete renumbering in 1927: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10423.msg254037#msg254037
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

Zeffy

  • Revved to Redline
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4388
  • Age: 25
  • Location: Doylestown, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: July 12, 2019, 02:55:21 PM
Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2014, 11:20:50 AM »

There was a complete renumbering in 1927: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10423.msg254037#msg254037

Ah, I get it, the old system existed in the twenties until the new one was legislated in 1927. And then they would partially renumber them again in the '50s...

Logged
Life's too short to play it safe.

Exploring roads in my 2018 Honda Civic Type R. Hopefully those roads are free of potholes :D

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.