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I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

Started by Zeffy, February 25, 2014, 11:08:43 AM

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famartin

Google maps appears to function properly now!


KEVIN_224

(Wipes away pretend tear...) SIGH! It's so beautiful!  :-P



It's gonna be fun for those neighbors if those other movements are ever built though!  :paranoid:

jeffandnicole

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on October 04, 2018, 07:35:33 AM
(Wipes away pretend tear...) SIGH! It's so beautiful!  :-P



It's gonna be fun for those neighbors if those other movements are ever built though!  :paranoid:


Very Nice!  Yeah, those neighbors have already had a significant impact.  Many of them will be perfectly fine if the interchange was never completed.


So I went in Google Maps between 7:50am and 8am, 10/4/18, just to see what travel times would be.  I used my starting point as Exit 8A of the NJ Turnpike; my ending point was the I-95/DE 1 interchange.  The 3 options that came up are as follows:

Going south:
NJ Turnpike to Del Mem Br: 83.3 Miles, 1 Hour 13 Minutes
NJ Turnpike to Exit 7 to I-295 to Del Mem Br: 86.7 Miles, 1:23
I-95: 87.3 Miles, 1:44

Going north:
Del Mem Br to NJ Turnpike: 82.9 Miles, 1:13
Del Mem Br to I-295's Exit 36A to the NJ Turnpike: 85.3 Miles, 1:19
I-95: 87.5 Miles, 1:35

So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.


Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

famartin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on October 04, 2018, 07:35:33 AM
(Wipes away pretend tear...) SIGH! It's so beautiful!  :-P



It's gonna be fun for those neighbors if those other movements are ever built though!  :paranoid:


Very Nice!  Yeah, those neighbors have already had a significant impact.  Many of them will be perfectly fine if the interchange was never completed.


So I went in Google Maps between 7:50am and 8am, 10/4/18, just to see what travel times would be.  I used my starting point as Exit 8A of the NJ Turnpike; my ending point was the I-95/DE 1 interchange.  The 3 options that came up are as follows:

Going south:
NJ Turnpike to Del Mem Br: 83.3 Miles, 1 Hour 13 Minutes
NJ Turnpike to Exit 7 to I-295 to Del Mem Br: 86.7 Miles, 1:23
I-95: 87.3 Miles, 1:44

Going north:
Del Mem Br to NJ Turnpike: 82.9 Miles, 1:13
Del Mem Br to I-295's Exit 36A to the NJ Turnpike: 85.3 Miles, 1:19
I-95: 87.5 Miles, 1:35

So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.
As anticipated. That said, as late as when I checked (715), 95 was the best option both ways to/from downtown NYC and downtown Philly. That probably changed later, at least going into Philly.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia (east of the Delaware River) area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.  I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.
Yes, for someone coming from central Jersey & north.  However, someone traveling from Wilmington & south to Bucks County, PA or vice-versa is not going to use I-295 or the NJTP to bypass Philadelphia in most instances.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.

ipeters61

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.

Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That's not the point.  Some people will strictly follow the I-95 routing.  And not everyone is going to a destination listed on those signs.  If a driver is going to Boston, those signs don't matter if they don't know or care that they have to go thru NJ or NY.

Think about it next time you're on a road trip.  You're taking I-80 to Chicago.  Do you care about Hazelton, even though PA uses that as a control city?  To you, the driver, you care that you're staying on I-80, not some city in between you and your destination.

BrianP

So I guess those drivers never make it to Boston then?  They got stuck in the Trenton area.  Even now they have no I-95 to follow since they're still stuck in Trenton.  They settled down and made a new life in NJ.  Waiting for I-95 to be built and show them the way.  So oblivious that not even the new I-95 connection can help them. :-D

ipeters61

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 11:58:20 AM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.

Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That's not the point.  Some people will strictly follow the I-95 routing.  And not everyone is going to a destination listed on those signs.  If a driver is going to Boston, those signs don't matter if they don't know or care that they have to go thru NJ or NY.

Think about it next time you're on a road trip.  You're taking I-80 to Chicago.  Do you care about Hazelton, even though PA uses that as a control city?  To you, the driver, you care that you're staying on I-80, not some city in between you and your destination.
Considering that New York (population 8 million) and Philadelphia (population 1.6 million) are larger, more notable destinations than places like Wilmington (population 70k), I would imagine that a destination which I figure is on the way to Boston (and further away from me than Philadelphia, because there's a sign upon entering Delaware that says Philadelphia is 42 miles away) is more important.

I am more than well aware that people don't pay attention on the road and blindly listen to their GPS.  However, whenever I type in my route back home to Connecticut on Google Maps, it always directs me onto I-295 or the NJTP anyway.

The point made earlier in this thread was that nobody cares about Wilmington, but I would assume people have a better understanding of Philadelphia and New York's proximity to each other, considering that they are vastly more important cities.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 11:58:20 AM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.

Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That's not the point.  Some people will strictly follow the I-95 routing.  And not everyone is going to a destination listed on those signs.  If a driver is going to Boston, those signs don't matter if they don't know or care that they have to go thru NJ or NY.

Think about it next time you're on a road trip.  You're taking I-80 to Chicago.  Do you care about Hazelton, even though PA uses that as a control city?  To you, the driver, you care that you're staying on I-80, not some city in between you and your destination.
Considering that New York (population 8 million) and Philadelphia (population 1.6 million) are larger, more notable destinations than places like Wilmington (population 70k), I would imagine that a destination which I figure is on the way to Boston (and further away from me than Philadelphia, because there's a sign upon entering Delaware that says Philadelphia is 42 miles away) is more important.

I am more than well aware that people don't pay attention on the road and blindly listen to their GPS.  However, whenever I type in my route back home to Connecticut on Google Maps, it always directs me onto I-295 or the NJTP anyway.

The point made earlier in this thread was that nobody cares about Wilmington, but I would assume people have a better understanding of Philadelphia and New York's proximity to each other, considering that they are vastly more important cities.

While the current generation is used to things like GPS, many people still don't use those things.  Heck, maps and atlases are still sold in stores. Not because there's a huge roadgeek population that likes to see what changes are made; it's because people still utilize them to get around.  These even a fair number of people on these boards that don't have smartphones, so unless they have a GPS unit within their car, they're using maps, pre-printed directions or signage as displayed on the roadway.   While some people think everyone has a GPS, that's shockingly far from reality.

And when it comes to those signs, what would the point of the route number be if one is just looking for cities on the way to the destination, or what purpose is a control city if people just rely on route numbers?  It's been learned thru the years of driving that people utilize different things on those signs; enough to show both options.  The FHWA also learned that too much info is bad, so they try limiting the signage to 2 cities, even on signs where the road splits.  The states have at least slightly battled on that one, still showing 2 cities per direction if they believe it's prudent to do so. 

I provided Boston as an example, because of an experience collecting tolls on the NJ Turnpike.  This particular person, I learned thru our discussion, was on I-80 East.  He wanted to head up to Boston.  When he got to I-95, he took South, not North.  I mean, he could see NYC from that area, and a few minutes later he doesn't, because he's driving away from it.  He went 2 hours south, and passed thru my toll lane at Interchange 1.  He thought I was joking when I said he went 2 hours in the wrong direction, and there was not a single thing that made him think otherwise.  Signs for Philly; the lack of signage for New York City, etc didn't mean a thing to him.  He simply wanted I-95, and didn't give another thought about anything else.  He probably saw I-95 signage up north on the Turnpike, but it didn't phase him in the least that there wasn't a bit of 95 signage for over an hour before he saw me.

They're the people that have no clue what city is between Point A and Point B.  And they're the people you're driving alongside at 75 mph on the highways.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
So in all cases, at least for this snapshot during this morning rush hour, remaining on I-95 the whole length was the worst option in both time and mileage.  There was significant congestion in Northeast Philly slowing I-95 down there. For both directions, Google Maps used the NJ Turnpike as the primary route due to the fastest time.

I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.

But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

Geography has never been a strong suite for many people.  Neither is highway driving.  Many people are directionally challenged. 

Remember...this has been a long-time issue for those taking I-95 North, and having it disappear on them after they enter New Jersey.
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That final set of signs really needs replacing with an APL with "Philadelphia" alone on the left, and "New York" alone on the right.

bzakharin

Isn't part of the design of the Interstate system that mainline Interstates are supposed to go through big cities, with bypasses for those heading for longer distance destinations? If that's the case, wouldn't drivers know that blindly following a route number won't necessarily be the best way to get somewhere? If such is the case, most people will know to follow New York signs and not Philadelphia in Delaware. Will they know Wilmington is further away than Philadelphia? That it's on the way to (let's say) Washington, DC? Will they end up on I-95 North because they were still following Wilmington signs?

PHLBOS

#2064
Quote from: TXtoNJ on October 04, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That final set of signs really needs replacing with an APL with "Philadelphia" alone on the left, and "New York" alone on the right.
For the approach signage, yes; but at this location, no because there isn't a shared lane anymore. 

As far as the control city/point listing is concerned; except for the incorrect NY - NJ order, such is fine as is.  It covers all the bases. 

While many tourist drivers may not know the Delaware Memorial Bridge by name per se; they do know that they need to cross the Delaware River in order to get into NJ.

Additionally, do you honestly believe that DelDOT is going to omit their largest city (Wilmington's population is almost double that of DE's capital city of Dover) on their signs in favor of a larger city that is not in their own state?
GPS does NOT equal GOD

briantroutman

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
While many tourist drivers may not know the Delaware Memorial Bridge by name per se; they do know that they need to cross the Delaware River in order to get into NJ.

I think you're giving the average motorist far too much credit for knowledge of geography.

In fact, if you stopped a hundred random out-of-region cars (i.e. not DE, PA, or NJ) on I-95 in Delaware and asked what body of water they need to cross to enter NJ, I wouldn't be surprised if the top five responses were as absurd as this:

5.) Bay of Fundy
4.) What's a "˜body of water'?
3.) Lake Erie
2.) Is Jimmy Hoffa's body a "˜body of water'?
1.) Hudson River

ekt8750

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on October 04, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That final set of signs really needs replacing with an APL with "Philadelphia" alone on the left, and "New York" alone on the right.
For the approach signage, yes; but at this location, no because there isn't a shared lane anymore. 

There is at the 95-495 split though and there should be an APL there.

Beltway

#2067
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2018, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia (east of the Delaware River) area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.  I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.
Yes, for someone coming from central Jersey & north.  However, someone traveling from Wilmington & south to Bucks County, PA or vice-versa is not going to use I-295 or the NJTP to bypass Philadelphia in most instances.

When I said "carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area" that meant to include the suburban areas such as Delaware and Bucks counties, so that would be traffic from/to points south of Wilmington and to/from points north of SE PA, or using the nearest large metro areas between Baltimore and New York City.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.
But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

That is not the fault of the signing, people need to gain some minimal understanding of road networks if they want to optimize their travel.  There are numbers of places in the country where they will need to make a judgement call about whether to take the I-xx route thru the center of the city or take the I-xxx route to bypass the city.  They can start with a paper map of the area.  More and more areas are posting on VMS signs the estimates of minutes for the route alternates, using data from their smart traffic centers.

For example, Richmond VA has time estimates posted on VMS signs for the routes thru the center of the city (I-64 and I-95) versus using the I-295 bypass.  I saw this scheme on my recent trip thru Indianapolis.  Baltimore has a system like this.  No reason why the Philadelphia area can't have a system like this.  Harrisburg does.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: briantroutman on October 04, 2018, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
While many tourist drivers may not know the Delaware Memorial Bridge by name per se; they do know that they need to cross the Delaware River in order to get into NJ.

I think you're giving the average motorist far too much credit for knowledge of geography.

In fact, if you stopped a hundred random out-of-region cars (i.e. not DE, PA, or NJ) on I-95 in Delaware and asked what body of water they need to cross to enter NJ, I wouldn't be surprised if the top five responses were as absurd as this:

5.) Bay of Fundy
4.) What's a "˜body of water'?
3.) Lake Erie
2.) Is Jimmy Hoffa's body a "˜body of water'?
1.) Hudson River

I crossed a bridge?

(Yes...people are oblivious to such)

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
I-95 never was intended to carry the thru traffic in the Wilmington-Philadelphia area.  That would be the job of I-295 and NJTP.   I-95 was intended to handle many trips originating and/or ending within that region.
But someone strictly following I-95 signage won't know that.  If they know they want to take I-95 to Baltimore or Washington DC., you'll be amazed at how many people have no clue where Wilmington is located, because they don't care.

That is not the fault of the signing, people need to gain some minimal understanding of road networks if they want to optimize their travel.  There are numbers of places in the country where they will need to make a judgement call about whether to take the I-xx route thru the center of the city or take the I-xxx route to bypass the city.  They can start with a paper map of the area.  More and more areas are posting on VMS signs the estimates of minutes for the route alternates, using data from their smart traffic centers.

For example, Richmond VA has time estimates posted on VMS signs for the routes thru the center of the city (I-64 and I-95) versus using the I-295 bypass.  I saw this scheme on my recent trip thru Indianapolis.  Baltimore has a system like this.  No reason why the Philadelphia area can't have a system like this.  Harrisburg does.

Honestly, I never used the 295 bypass around Richmond until recently.  #1 - I always figured it was out of my way and would take longer, and #2 - I heard the horror stories of people getting pulled over.   Using those timed signs, I found out that 295 is much easier than staying on 95, and I found out the horror stories are greatly exaggerated, especially with the highway being mostly 70 mph.  I never had a problem driving 75, and I'm still getting passed.

PA has travel times on the signs near Philly.  However, the region as a whole doesn't work well when it comes to interacting with others.  Delaware or New Jersey would need to post travel times that involve 3 states - PA, NJ & DE - in order to inform the public of the travel times for long distances.  The various transportation departments don't have the capability of doing that.   Even the NJ Turnpike posting the travel time to Wilmington, DE is really them posting the time to the Delaware Memorial Bridge from what I can tell.  Since bypassing Richmond or Harrisburg only involves the state those cities are in, it's much easier to accomplish.

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
PA has travel times on the signs near Philly.  However, the region as a whole doesn't work well when it comes to interacting with others.  Delaware or New Jersey would need to post travel times that involve 3 states - PA, NJ & DE - in order to inform the public of the travel times for long distances.  The various transportation departments don't have the capability of doing that.   Even the NJ Turnpike posting the travel time to Wilmington, DE is really them posting the time to the Delaware Memorial Bridge from what I can tell.  Since bypassing Richmond or Harrisburg only involves the state those cities are in, it's much easier to accomplish.

Maryland and Virginia does it.  Indiana and Illinois does it.  I'm sure there are others. 

The smart traffic centers in the associated states need to get together and "just do it".
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Even the NJ Turnpike posting the travel time to Wilmington, DE is really them posting the time to the Delaware Memorial Bridge from what I can tell.
I would think it's to US 13 since there is a US 13 shield on that sign.

PHLBOS

#2072
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 04, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on October 04, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 04, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That final set of signs really needs replacing with an APL with "Philadelphia" alone on the left, and "New York" alone on the right.
For the approach signage, yes; but at this location, no because there isn't a shared lane anymore. 

There is at the 95-495 split though and there should be an APL there.
An aerial view shows that gantry slightly beyond where the lane splits in two.  If such were placed prior to the split, then yes.

A similar example in Danbury, CT (granted there's a longer stretch where the shared lane splits into two separate lanes) where there's APLs for the approach signage but separate sign panels at the actual split.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on October 04, 2018, 02:04:34 PMI think you're giving the average motorist far too much credit for knowledge of geography.

In fact, if you stopped a hundred random out-of-region cars (i.e. not DE, PA, or NJ) on I-95 in Delaware and asked what body of water they need to cross to enter NJ, I wouldn't be surprised if the top five responses were as absurd as this:

5.) Bay of Fundy
4.) What's a "˜body of water'?
3.) Lake Erie
2.) Is Jimmy Hoffa's body a "˜body of water'?
1.) Hudson River

I crossed a bridge?

(Yes...people are oblivious to such)
Fair enough; but is that an excuse not to include it on the main signage?  If the answer to that question is yes; then one might as well remove the Commodore Barry, Walt Whitman & Betsy Ross Bridge references off the main signs along I-95 as well. 

Side bar: When the 1991-vintage I-95 signage for I-676 were first erected; the Ben Franklin Bridge reference originally only appeared on supplemental signs.  The ramp signs for I-676 eastbound (via Callowhill St.) were changed to include the bridge about three years later (gee, I wonder why...)

So the listing of prominent bridges on major signs are relevant regardless of whether the driver knows (or cares) about them or not.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM

I crossed a bridge?

(Yes...people are oblivious to such)

I've heard this many times.  I've had conversations like this:
"Are we still in New Jersey?"
"No....Don't you remember us crossing the bridge?"
"We crossed a bridge?"
"Uh.....Yes..."

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bzakharin on October 04, 2018, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Even the NJ Turnpike posting the travel time to Wilmington, DE is really them posting the time to the Delaware Memorial Bridge from what I can tell.
I would think it's to US 13 since there is a US 13 shield on that sign.

For some reason there was something about the time or the distance that made me wonder if that was really true.

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
PA has travel times on the signs near Philly.  However, the region as a whole doesn't work well when it comes to interacting with others.  Delaware or New Jersey would need to post travel times that involve 3 states - PA, NJ & DE - in order to inform the public of the travel times for long distances.  The various transportation departments don't have the capability of doing that.   Even the NJ Turnpike posting the travel time to Wilmington, DE is really them posting the time to the Delaware Memorial Bridge from what I can tell.  Since bypassing Richmond or Harrisburg only involves the state those cities are in, it's much easier to accomplish.

Maryland and Virginia does it.  Indiana and Illinois does it.  I'm sure there are others. 

The smart traffic centers in the associated states need to get together and "just do it".

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!

If there's a significant issue in another state, NJDOT often reports it on their signs.  It's common for something to be mentioned on I-295 if the Schuylkill Expressway is closed, for example.  But for traffic time signs, there doesn't appear to be any connection between the adjoining states, and nothing indicates that's going to change anytime soon.  There's probably an issue with priorities and funding as well, and providing travel times to a point 80 miles away in another state isn't high on either list.



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