Toll Booths

[US81]

As for electronic collection vs toll booths: I prefer both.  I like a pass type system for regular customers and cash booths for drivers just driving through.  The Texas style all electronic system is very flawed, and is not acceptable given the other options available.

+1

[Pete from Boston]

The Maryland Senate just passed a bill that would force the MdTA to keep at least one cash lane at each toll booth in the state.  It was sponsored by a State Senator who has the Tydings Bridge in her district.  The MdTA was going to use the bridge as a pilot for an AET program.

If they raise the cash toll enough to cover the price of the tollbooth (including the toll collector's pension), I say go nuts.

[theline]

The Maryland Senate just passed a bill that would force the MdTA to keep at least one cash lane at each toll booth in the state.  It was sponsored by a State Senator who has the Tydings Bridge in her district.  The MdTA was going to use the bridge as a pilot for an AET program.

Good in theory, but bad in reality.  As long as you have the cash option, people are going to use it.  You're not going to convince 99% of the drivers to convert to EZ Pass while 1% pay with cash.

If you make the cash toll experience miserable enough, folks will convert. That's what convinced me to get an I-Pass. A few years back, I was taking my daughter to O'Hare just when the Tri-State was converting to Open Road Tolling. During the construction they really punished cash customers with long detours at each toll barrier, leading to understaffed booths and long backups. The experience was so miserable that I drove out of my way to an Osco's to purchase the transponder before making the trip to pick her up. I've not regretted the purchase a bit since. In fact, I've been known to sneer at the poor ignorant schlubs queued up in the cash lanes.

[Revive 755]

In fact, I've been known to sneer at the poor ignorant schlubs queued up in the cash lanes.

As a former "poor ignorant schlub" who only went near the Illinois Tollways once every five years or less and who was more often was near the non I-Pass compatible Kansas Turnpike, I find your comment offensive.  I don't believe ISTHA has a program like the North Texas Tollway Authority where once in a decade user can just set up an account for a day of two of use (although the NTTA could use an online method of registration for their program).

[theline]

No offense intended. I'm sneering at the folks who are on the tollway frequently and choose not to make life a lot easier (and cheaper, considering the 50% discount for I-Pass users). All transponders used in the US should be compatible. It's ridiculous that they're not.

Of course I realize that some travelers, because they rarely ride the tollways, wouldn't benefit from a transponder, and I bear them no ill will. That's exactly why I think all toll roads should offer an alternate way to pay on the spot, either manned toll booths or ATM-like machines like in many Indiana locations.

[agentsteel53]

the other day, I went and attempted to get a California toll tag (whatever it's called.  Fast Pass?  Easy Pass?  Trak Pass?  Pass Pass?  who cares.) and their website went full idiot on me.  when I called for customer service, they told me that I would have to go and re-register, starting all over again from the beginning.

now THAT is an impediment to progress.

so I went ahead and got through the forms again, and at the end, the system completely crashed again.  I was too lazy to call them a second time.

you want me to pay electronically?  seriously, don't fuck up the process.

I'm all in favor of an all-electronic road system - but when the support infrastructure borders on a Google Maps level of horse-shittery... I'm going to wonder where your priorities are.  just who is paying you to fail!?

I hope you are enjoying your $860 toll violation tickets.

[Joe The Dragon]

No offense intended. I'm sneering at the folks who are on the tollway frequently and choose not to make life a lot easier (and cheaper, considering the 50% discount for I-Pass users). All transponders used in the US should be compatible. It's ridiculous that they're not.

Of course I realize that some travelers, because they rarely ride the tollways, wouldn't benefit from a transponder, and I bear them no ill will. That's exactly why I think all toll roads should offer an alternate way to pay on the spot, either manned toll booths or ATM-like machines like in many Indiana locations.

EOE and west bypass with will be ECT only that may push ETC use even higher in IL

[theline]

the other day, I went and attempted to get a California toll tag (whatever it's called.  Fast Pass?  Easy Pass?  Trak Pass?  Pass Pass?  who cares.) and their website went full idiot on me.  when I called for customer service, they told me that I would have to go and re-register, starting all over again from the beginning.

now THAT is an impediment to progress.

so I went ahead and got through the forms again, and at the end, the system completely crashed again.  I was too lazy to call them a second time.

you want me to pay electronically?  seriously, don't fuck up the process.

I'm all in favor of an all-electronic road system - but when the support infrastructure borders on a Google Maps level of horse-shittery... I'm going to wonder where your priorities are.  just who is paying you to fail!?

I hope you are enjoying your $860 toll violation tickets.

Are you sure you weren't trying to sign up for Obamacare?  (That's a joke folks. No intention to start an off-topic political discussion.)

[jeffandnicole]

When I used the Miami area Electronic-Only tollroads, I received a bill for the 3, $1 tolls I went thru, plus a $2.50 surcharge. 

$5.50 total. 

I didn't stop.  I didn't have to fish around for money.  Electronic-Only drivers didn't have to search for their lanes.  I didn't have to search for my lanes.  In other words, none of the issues normally dealt with at a regular toll plaza occurred here, and it was only a $2.50 surcharge.

[US81]

When I used the Miami area Electronic-Only tollroads, I received a bill for the 3, $1 tolls I went thru, plus a $2.50 surcharge. 

$5.50 total. 

I didn't stop.  I didn't have to fish around for money.  Electronic-Only drivers didn't have to search for their lanes.  I didn't have to search for my lanes.  In other words, none of the issues normally dealt with at a regular toll plaza occurred here, and it was only a $2.50 surcharge.

And that's the way it should work.  My experience though, was different.

I occasionally drive in and around Austin. The posted pay-by-mail rate for one exit, distance of 0.8 miles on the toll road, was $0.65. After waiting about 3 weeks without receiving a bill, I called and was told to wait for a bill that would be generated immediately and sent to me. When it arrived about a week after my call, I had a violation fee of $5 plus 2 fees of $1.15 each for the paper bills (both the one I actually received and the initial bill that they claim was sent to me) plus $2 in surcharges.  [I have owned the vehicle in question since 2007 and lived in the same residence since 2000.]

So, a posted a price of $0.65 but an actual bill of $9.95. Helluva surcharge.

I was happy to be an occasional user, but after this experience - never again.

[Edited to be a little less tl;dr]

[hbelkins]

Are you sure you weren't trying to sign up for Obamacare?  (That's a joke folks. No intention to start an off-topic political discussion.)

Beat me to it! 

When I was borrowing a family member's car a few months ago, I forgot that I didn't have Pikepass and blew through the Pikepass lane.  The next day I called them and told them what happened and they charged my account.  I soon got a Pikepass for that car so I didn't have to worry about it again.

My wife accidentally blew through a PikePass lane a few years ago when she was passing through Oklahoma. I expected to get a bill in the mail plus a huge surcharge, but nothing ever materialized. Kinda like my one-and-only trip on the Bush Turnpike near Dallas a few years ago. I never got a bill in the mail.

One thing I like about my West Virginia EZ-Pass is that I can list multiple vehicles on one account and can either call or go online to add or delete vehicles. I just got it out of my wife's vehicle yesterday so I can use it next weekend on the CBBT.

Not sure if I will switch to Kentucky's EZ-Pass or stay with WV once the Louisville bridges project is finished. I'm sure they will go with an EZ-Pass-compatible system since Indiana's system is already compatible.

All of which reminds me -- I have two Peace Bridge EZ-Pass units that have never been used. Guess I should send them back and get a refund. I ordered them thinking there would be a much faster turnaround for delivery than what I actually got (thanks to misleading info on their Web site) and ended up driving to Charleston one afternoon to get the WV unit when the Peace Bridge units didn't arrive in time for a trip my wife was taking.

As a former "poor ignorant schlub" who only went near the Illinois Tollways once every five years or less and who was more often was near the non I-Pass compatible Kansas Turnpike, I find your comment offensive.  I don't believe ISTHA has a program like the North Texas Tollway Authority where once in a decade user can just set up an account for a day of two of use (although the NTTA could use an online method of registration for their program).

I don't live in a state with toll facilities, yet I opted to get an EZ-Pass to save me the hassle of sitting in lines at toll booths and paying cash when I do use a toll road that is on that system.

[Dr Frankenstein]

Here's my analysis of the systems I've seen in Canada.

A25 between Montreal and Laval: No booths, all ETC.
Option 1: A25 transponder tag. No interoperability. $2.57/month account fee.
Option 2: Bill by plate. $5.15 surcharge for each trip. The toll is $1.86 non-rush, $2.48 rush.
Result: Since I don't go through there enough to justify the account fee and I consider the surcharge to be gouging, I avoid that bridge like the plague.

A30Express between Valleyfield and Les Cèdres: All booths.
Option 1: A30Express transponder tag. No interoperability. Free as of Feb. 2014. Accepted in all lanes.
Option 2: Credit card. Automated. Accepted in all lanes except those reserved for tags.
Option 3: Cash. Accepted in attended booths.
Result: I use cash almost every time. I find that many people have trouble using automated equipment (of any kind, just not this particular one), and I don't want to be stuck behind one. I almost always carry cash (I work in the same building as my credit union's head office) so that's not too big of an issue. Transponders used to have an account fee, but it was lifted during the last toll hike. Still, the gain is minimal, since there's no high speed lanes.

407 ETR: No booths, all ETC.
Option 1: 407 ETR transponder tag. No interoperability. No account fee, $21.50 annual + $3.40 monthly "transponder lease". No account fee my ass.
Option 2: Bill by plate. $3.95 per-trip surcharge.
Result: The overall toll rates for that highway are pretty damn high and there's no direct freeway access east of Toronto, so I only use it when 401 is a parking lot for good stretch. As I live hundreds of kilometres away from there, having a transponder would be a loss for me, so I reluctantly pay the bill-by-plate surcharge.

In the U.S., there wouldn't be much of a difference for me between keeping the booths and converting to all-ETC. Actually, I might have a bit of an advantage with full ETC, as I have yet to be billed for any of my trips over the Henry Hudson Bridge (the only all-ETC toll I've been through in the U.S. so far), due to my foreign plates. I had considered using the I-495 express lanes around D.C., but the "EZ-Pass ONLY" message on the signs had me think that I could get in trouble. Turns out that I can pay online with a $1.50 surcharge within 5 days via bill-by-plate. I assume that they invoice you with a bigger surcharge afterwards. Or not (again, foreign plates), but I won't risk it.

I do have a P.O. box for shipping purposes in the U.S. but they don't accept regular mail, so I don't know if and how I can get an EZ-Pass.

Now, the reasons why I always carry cash on me: I grew up in the country, and many of the small chip stands (snack bars) and other businesses in such areas only accept cash, often because it's not worth getting broadband Internet access in the building just for the terminal, especially if it's seasonal. Plus, with such a small customer base, it's not worth paying all the fees. So I got used to having cash on me all the time.

Nowadays, I live in a more dense area and I work in downtown Montreal. When I'm waiting to pay in a store, restaurant or cafeteria, I find that the transactions involving cards always take a little while (processing, PIN or signature, etc.) and my cash transaction is handled quickly and effectively. So in my experience, I'm not saving time by using my debit or credit card, but rather wasting time, especially with smaller transactions. As I said earlier in this post, my credit union's head office is in the same building as my workplace, so I can go to the ATM and get back in about five minutes. At home, I just walk down two blocks to get to the credit union branch. The grocery store is on the same street, so I can combine the two in the same trip.

[1995hoo]

I've long thought that instead of having a fee for an ETC device, they should simply raise the toll for the cash-payers.

They do, but they also charge for the device because they're huge dicks.
Orlando did just fine for many years with not charging.

SunPass stickers though are practically free. They cost $5 but come with a $5 toll credit.

At least we don't have a monthly "service" fee like most states.

Interestingly, the SunPass website doesn't mention that $5 toll credit anywhere. I know I got that credit when I bought my SunPass Mini back in 2011, and at the time it was prominently mentioned on their website. You had to use the $5 credit within a certain amount of time, I think 30 days from creating your account, or you forfeited it. Maybe they've discontinued that part of the program.

Regarding monthly fees, the Virginia General Assembly passed a bill (SB156) that provides, quote, "No later than September 1, 2014, the Department of Transportation shall develop and implement a plan to eliminate the maintenance fees associated with electronic toll collection transponders." The governor has said he will sign it. Of course, that doesn't mean the current fee for new users is going away any time soon. (Not all of us pay the fees because they grandfathered in existing fee-free transponders.) I would still have an E-ZPass even if I had to pay the fee. The benefit is worth it. I would not have a SunPass if I had to pay, however, because for me two trips a year to Florida is not enough toll-road usage to justify a monthly fee.

[vdeane]

I do have a P.O. box for shipping purposes in the U.S. but they don't accept regular mail, so I don't know if and how I can get an EZ-Pass.

You could ask the Thousand Islands Bridge Authority when they start accepting E-ZPass later this year (they have to rebuild the booths first though, and that won't start until around October), especially since the Canadian span is entirely within Ontario.

[Mdcastle]

They could at least sell Sunpass in the airports. Of course that would deprive the rental companies from charging $35.00 for a two way trip from Miami to the Keys.

[jeffandnicole]

When I used the Miami area Electronic-Only tollroads, I received a bill for the 3, $1 tolls I went thru, plus a $2.50 surcharge. 

$5.50 total. 

I didn't stop.  I didn't have to fish around for money.  Electronic-Only drivers didn't have to search for their lanes.  I didn't have to search for my lanes.  In other words, none of the issues normally dealt with at a regular toll plaza occurred here, and it was only a $2.50 surcharge.

And that's the way it should work.  My experience though, was different...I was happy to be an occasional user, but after this experience - never again.

So you've used it before, and had one bad experience?

If that was the case, I'd been in a bubble.  Nearly everyone has had bad experiences with restaurants, stores, phones, credit cards, internet service, cable, etc, etc, etc.  Phone calls are made, and the problem is corrected.

If anyone says that one bad experience ruined the entire universe of the product everywhere, that's being a bit dramatic.

[NE2]

Phone calls are made, and the problem is corrected.

Where did he say the problem was corrected?

[jeffandnicole]

Phone calls are made, and the problem is corrected.

Where did he say the problem was corrected?

He never said he made a phone call either.  But if he did, no doubt the problem could have been corrected.  He simply wrote off the entire electronic toll industry because of one error.

[NE2]

But if he did, no doubt the problem could have been corrected.

I have my doubts it would have been, and suspect you work as an electronic toll industry shill.

[jeffandnicole]

But if he did, no doubt the problem could have been corrected.

I have my doubts it would have been, and suspect you work as an electronic toll industry shill.

I've been charged extra at the Delaware Memorial Bridge...Truck charge rather than a normal car charge.  Made the necessary phone call; provided the necessary information.  Got the expected credit.

[bugo]

I've heard horror stories from Texas where they didn't send out the bill and when that person drove back to Texas, they were arrested and taken to jail for toll evasion.  So until Pikepass works in Texas, I'll be avoiding their toll roads.

[US81]

Phone calls are made, and the problem is corrected.

Where did he say the problem was corrected?

He never said he made a phone call either.  But if he did, no doubt the problem could have been corrected.  He simply wrote off the entire electronic toll industry because of one error.

But if he did, no doubt the problem could have been corrected.

I have my doubts it would have been, and suspect you work as an electronic toll industry shill.

For the sake of clarity, another phone call was made. Not only was the error not corrected, I was threatened with being turned over to the court for non-payment which would have added $350 (plus who knows what other administrative fees and surcharges they "forgot" to mention) to the bill. It was not the first such occurrence, it was the most recent of three. And the last.

Another point: the access roads along the Austin area toll roads are intermittent. In several places along the one-way access roads, hidden by terrain, the access road ends forcing drivers onto the toll road. Many people have been caught in these 'traps' but I know of signage on only one to date.

Any more questions?

[wxfree]

To point out the obvious, the difference between toll roads and restaurants is that restaurants don't add hundreds of dollars of extra fees and threaten to take you to court.  Also, a restaurant doesn't have the backing of the state and benefit from the presumption that their claims in court are correct.  I fully understand avoiding pay by mail facilities.  In fact, if anyone were to ask me, I'd recommend it.  If you're driving on the toll roads, get a tag.  If you think your use is too infrequent to warrant a tag, just give up that infrequent use.  Your one-time use of the road probably isn't worth the higher tolls and billing fees and potential hassle and extra expense when they send you the bill and it gets "lost in the mail."

[agentsteel53]

speaking of toll failures - I just got in the mail my notice of violation for failing to pay the Golden Gate Bridge toll.

I crossed on 2/2/2014.  I promptly went ahead and paid on 2/5/2014, and was emailed a receipt saying that my card would be charged for all crossings between 2/1/2014 and 2/15/2014 (the way they make you select a range is a bit weird but I suppose it works for tourists who will want to cross the bridge 6-7 times in a week and never again).

turns out, they never charged my card.  and then had the sheer ballsage to turn me into a violator for failing to pay.



I went ahead and sent them a check for $31 ($6 + $25 fine), and am now patiently waiting the $860 file, and for my car to be towed and thrown off their stupid little orange bridge.

[jeffandnicole]

To continue with an opposing viewpoint, people have complained for years for being shortchanged by a toll collector. 

With any method of payment (electronic, in-person, credit card, goat cheese), the majority will never experience a problem.  A few will.  There isn't anything out there that is problem-free.