Black Background Overhead Signs

[talllguy]

I haven't seen too many overhead signs using the full black background, with white Clearview. This one is at the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza for southbound traffic (I-95 Baltimore). How is the black background meant to be used?


Black Background by Elliott Plack, on Flickr

[1995hoo]

Once upon a time, VDOT had all the signs for the reversible center carriageway on Shirley Highway (originally I-95, later mostly I-395) in a white-on-black scheme to help distinguish them from the BGSs over the main lanes. I always liked it. They were gone by the 1990s.

This is the only photo I can find. Of course in a black and white photo it's hard to distinguish the color, so please take my word for it that it was a black background.



The following Street View link shows the last remaining white-on-black sign I'm aware of through there. This area no longer looks like what's shown here due to construction, but this sign was still there as of a few weeks ago. I'm not sure it will survive the construction, though. A corresponding red "Do Not Enter" sign nearby facing the other way was recently replaced with a current-style one.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.811548,-77.1473&spn=0.003231,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.811501,-77.147398&panoid=wQyzcGeuNdWu2y4hoONAhQ&cbp=12,277.33,,1,3.51&z=18

[Zeffy]

I know there used to be black guide signs in California, but I can't remember where there are pics of those. Whenever jake (agentsteel53) gets back I'm sure he'll post some yummy black sign goodness.

Also,

+5 for black background sign
-10 for Clearview
-99 for negative contrast Clearview
-499 for negative contrast Clearview with numbers
-50 for Clearview numbers

Ugh. This is why I hate Clearview.

[Alex]

I know there used to be black guide signs in California, but I can't remember where there are pics of those. Whenever jake (agentsteel53) gets back I'm sure he'll post some yummy black sign goodness.

You are thinking of the ones in Oakland. There was also one in New Orleans.

[Alps]

White on black is the same as black on white = regulatory signage. The MUTCD doesn't really specify when to use one or the other, but just about all of the example signs are black on white. The black signs I usually see are for truck weight restrictions (CT in particular).

[jeffandnicole]

I know there used to be black guide signs in California, but I can't remember where there are pics of those. Whenever jake (agentsteel53) gets back I'm sure he'll post some yummy black sign goodness.

Also,

+5 for black background sign
-10 for Clearview
-99 for negative contrast Clearview
-499 for negative contrast Clearview with numbers
-50 for Clearview numbers

Ugh. This is why I hate Clearview.

I'm going to take a few points off for over-italicizing EZ Pass. It's not bad, and I'm sure some will argue it's fine. One agency (can't remember which one) had so italicized EZ Pass on a few signs it was nearly unreadable.

[jakeroot]

+5 for black background sign
-10 for Clearview
-99 for negative contrast Clearview
-499 for negative contrast Clearview with numbers
-50 for Clearview numbers

Ugh. This is why I hate Clearview.

Doesn't a white-typeface on a dark background meet the FHWA's positive-contrast requirements for Clearview?

The use of Clearview as an alternative to the Standard Alphabets is allowed only on positive-contrast (white legend on a green, blue, or brown background) guide signs, as this contrast orientation is the only one that has demonstrated an improvement in legibility distance to date for those legends composed of upper- and lower-case letters when using specific series of Clearview lettering. The use of Clearview in negative-contrast color orientations, such as on regulatory and warning signs, has been shown to decrease legibility distance when compared with the FHWA Standard Alphabet series.

So they don't specifically mention black but legally white on black is positive-contrast.

EDIT: Also not seeing anywhere on the Clearview policy that specifically negates the use of Clearview numerals outside of route shields.

EDIT 2: Nevermind, section 11.   

[briantroutman]

Doesn't a white-typeface on a dark background meet the FHWA's positive-contrast requirements for Clearview?

It is, but the black numerals on the orange background is an example of negative contrast.

[jakeroot]

Doesn't a white-typeface on a dark background meet the FHWA's positive-contrast requirements for Clearview?

It is, but the black numerals on the orange background is an example of negative contrast.

What does the orange background even mean?

[myosh_tino]

This is located on northbound I-5 north of Los Angeles.  While the black sign may be construed as a guide sign, one could argue it's a regulatory sign because it instructs all trucks exit the mainline and use the bypass.

[maplestar]

Doesn't a white-typeface on a dark background meet the FHWA's positive-contrast requirements for Clearview?

It is, but the black numerals on the orange background is an example of negative contrast.

What does the orange background even mean?

Googling, I see something about a toll booth replacement project at that tunnel, so presumably the orange background is a coverup because construction has temporarily changed the numbers of the lanes trucks use. But those are just armchair guesses.

[J N Winkler]

White on black is the same as black on white = regulatory signage. The MUTCD doesn't really specify when to use one or the other, but just about all of the example signs are black on white. The black signs I usually see are for truck weight restrictions (CT in particular).

White-on-black is indeed for regulatory signage, but I don't think the contrast reversal option has been available for that signing category in the MUTCD since the 1971 edition.  Also up until 1971, white-on-black could be used for guide signing on both conventional roads and freeways/expressways, except for Interstates.

There are only two regulatory-sign applications I know of where white-on-black is still used:  night-related signs (e.g. the night speed limit sign), and truck-related signs, such as the one shown in the OP's picture.  I agree that the sign as fabricated meets the positive-contrast requirement of the Clearview interim approval memorandum, but it doesn't meet the requirement that Clearview be used only for guide signs.

[roadman]

White on black is an option, but not mandated, for the R13-1 "All Trucks Over XX Tons ....." sign normally used in advance of weigh stations.   Most states (Massachusetts included) have used that color combination on such signs for emphasis.

[agentsteel53]

Also up until 1971, white-on-black could be used for guide signing on both conventional roads and freeways/expressways, except for Interstates.

I believe that the freeway restriction went away in the 1971 MUTCD, but the conventional road one persisted until 1978.  at least, I know for a fact that black-on-white (the opposite of what we are talking about) was okay until 1978.

personally, I've seen black guide signs surviving in CA, MI, NJ (Alps can tell you that they are "dark dark dark green" but I disagree), PA, LA, and probably a handful more states which I'm not recalling offhand.  the LA example is for the Superdome and dates to ~1966 when it opened.

I've seen white signs with black text in at least 30 states, albeit some were very very minor items like bridge name identifiers.

[jeffandnicole]

I've seen white signs with black text in at least 30 states, albeit some were very very minor items like bridge name identifiers.

I've seen them in all 50 states.  Starting with Speed Limit signs... 

[jakeroot]

I've seen white signs with black text in at least 30 states, albeit some were very very minor items like bridge name identifiers.

I've seen them in all 50 states.  Starting with Speed Limit signs... 

I just confused serif and sans-serif fonts on another thread. Glad I'm not the only one that makes tiny grammatical errors.

[US71]

Some states use black as supplemental signs for weigh stations.

[agentsteel53]

I've seen white signs with black text in at least 30 states, albeit some were very very minor items like bridge name identifiers.

I've seen them in all 50 states.  Starting with Speed Limit signs... 

I thought it was reasonably well-established that the universe of discourse was guide signage.

that said, I wonder how many places used black background regulatory signage.  CA comes to mind of course.

[Alps]

personally, I've seen black guide signs surviving in CA, MI, NJ (Alps can tell you that they are "dark dark dark green" but I disagree)

You disagree with facts? The "black signs" in Australia are also dark green. Actually go up to one and take a look sometime.

[agentsteel53]

You disagree with facts? The "black signs" in Australia are also dark green. Actually go up to one and take a look sometime.

they may have the occasional green spot on them, but functionally these signs are black.

[hbelkins]

It's like deja vu all over again!

[J N Winkler]

Regarding Australian signs, I am willing to bet $10 that the dark green is actually Worboys green.

[DTComposer]

Once upon a time, VDOT had all the signs for the reversible center carriageway on Shirley Highway (originally I-95, later mostly I-395) in a white-on-black scheme to help distinguish them from the BGSs over the main lanes. I always liked it. They were gone by the 1990s.

This is the only photo I can find. Of course in a black and white photo it's hard to distinguish the color, so please take my word for it that it was a black background.



The following Street View link shows the last remaining white-on-black sign I'm aware of through there. This area no longer looks like what's shown here due to construction, but this sign was still there as of a few weeks ago. I'm not sure it will survive the construction, though. A corresponding red "Do Not Enter" sign nearby facing the other way was recently replaced with a current-style one.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.811548,-77.1473&spn=0.003231,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.811501,-77.147398&panoid=wQyzcGeuNdWu2y4hoONAhQ&cbp=12,277.33,,1,3.51&z=18

As best as I can think of this is the first time I've seen use of the phrase "Pool Cars". Is that common for that region?

[Brandon]

I don't have any photographs, maybe someone out there does, but the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority used to have white-on-black button copy signage for the toll plazas and the separation between the Manual (attended) Lanes and Automatic (coin basket) Lanes over the road up until the late 1980s.

[jakeroot]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

Also, the sign looks like an a la carte setup. The letters are split up into two or three and then the arrows are all alone as well.

What is up with that? How old is it?