Black Background Overhead Signs

[english si]

they may have the occasional green spot on them, but functionally these signs are black.

Look navy blue to me!

[1995hoo]

Once upon a time, VDOT had all the signs for the reversible center carriageway on Shirley Highway (originally I-95, later mostly I-395) in a white-on-black scheme to help distinguish them from the BGSs over the main lanes. I always liked it. They were gone by the 1990s.

This is the only photo I can find. Of course in a black and white photo it's hard to distinguish the color, so please take my word for it that it was a black background.



The following Street View link shows the last remaining white-on-black sign I'm aware of through there. This area no longer looks like what's shown here due to construction, but this sign was still there as of a few weeks ago. I'm not sure it will survive the construction, though. A corresponding red "Do Not Enter" sign nearby facing the other way was recently replaced with a current-style one.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.811548,-77.1473&spn=0.003231,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.811501,-77.147398&panoid=wQyzcGeuNdWu2y4hoONAhQ&cbp=12,277.33,,1,3.51&z=18

As best as I can think of this is the first time I've seen use of the phrase "Pool Cars". Is that common for that region?

Not anymore. That photo dates to the 1970s. Around 1982 they switched to saying " HOV."

[hbelkins]

That sign needs to put out of its misery

That's the biggest example of heresy I've ever seen on this forum.

[on_wisconsin]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

This. It belongs in a museum not in the wild.

[Zeffy]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

Also, the sign looks like an a la carte setup. The letters are split up into two or three and then the arrows are all alone as well.

What is up with that? How old is it?

That is a New Jersey Turnpike CLASSIC!!! (late 1950s? 1960s? Around there IIRC) These are some of the oldest guide signs on the Turnpike, especially with that gantry (I-beam?). NJTA recently took one of these down near Exit 6, and this one is probably gone too. But this sign looks like it's still in great shape, and I hope it's still there.

[VCB02FromRoblox]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

Also, the sign looks like an a la carte setup. The letters are split up into two or three and then the arrows are all alone as well.

What is up with that? How old is it?

That is a New Jersey Turnpike CLASSIC!!! (late 1950s? 1960s? Around there IIRC) These are some of the oldest guide signs on the Turnpike, especially with that gantry (I-beam?). NJTA recently took one of these down near Exit 6, and this one is probably gone too. But this sign looks like it's still in great shape, and I hope it's still there.

I find it old, yet highly interesting...

[Brandon]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

Also, the sign looks like an a la carte setup. The letters are split up into two or three and then the arrows are all alone as well.

What is up with that? How old is it?

That is a New Jersey Turnpike CLASSIC!!! (late 1950s? 1960s? Around there IIRC) These are some of the oldest guide signs on the Turnpike, especially with that gantry (I-beam?). NJTA recently took one of these down near Exit 6, and this one is probably gone too. But this sign looks like it's still in great shape, and I hope it's still there.

I find it old, yet highly interesting...

It is strangely bizarre, yet refreshingly interesting to me.

[jakeroot]

That sign needs to put out of its misery

That's the biggest example of heresy I've ever seen on this forum.

Me or the sign? 

[Brandon]

That's the biggest example of heresy I've ever seen on this forum.

Me or the sign? 

You, according to some.  I'm surprised Jake (agentsteel) hasn't already found you and decided to burn you at the stake. 

[jakeroot]

That's the biggest example of heresy I've ever seen on this forum.

Me or the sign? 

You, according to some.  I'm surprised Jake (agentsteel) hasn't already found you and decided to burn you at the stake. 

It's only a matter of time, being a heretic now.

[Quillz]

I remember reading in the "Big Roads" book that black guide signs were tested alongside green and blue guide signs, to see which provided the greatest visibility.

Frankly, I am surprised green won. I find white on black more legible due to having more contrast, and I just think white on black looks nicer.

[jakeroot]

I remember reading in the "Big Roads" book that black guide signs were tested alongside green and blue guide signs, to see which provided the greatest visibility.

Frankly, I am surprised green won. I find white on black more legible due to having more contrast, and I just think white on black looks nicer.

To me, green against green landscape mixes too much, so I too have no idea why green won.

Personally, I find big blue signs to be the best looking, in a purely aesthetic regard. Blue signs contrasted by green trees seem to be a nice contrast:

[Mergingtraffic]

or this in West Hartford, CT

[jakeroot]

or this in West Hartford, CT

^^ Image Directly Above ^^

I still read m.p.h. as "m dot p dot h dot".

Regardless of my odd pronunciation, I would read that as a night (truck?) speed limit, though I'm guessing, as with most of the signs in this thread, it's an antique from the stone age of the MUTCD?

[kendancy66]

Also up until 1971, white-on-black could be used for guide signing on both conventional roads and freeways/expressways, except for Interstates.

I believe that the freeway restriction went away in the 1971 MUTCD, but the conventional road one persisted until 1978.  at least, I know for a fact that black-on-white (the opposite of what we are talking about) was okay until 1978.

personally, I've seen black guide signs surviving in CA, MI, NJ (Alps can tell you that they are "dark dark dark green" but I disagree), PA, LA, and probably a handful more states which I'm not recalling offhand.  the LA example is for the Superdome and dates to ~1966 when it opened.

I've seen white signs with black text in at least 30 states, albeit some were very very minor items like bridge name identifiers.

The Superdome opened on August 3, 1975.  Could that sign be dated to then instead of 1966?

[Kniwt]

As best as I can think of this is the first time I've seen use of the phrase "Pool Cars". Is that common for that region?

Not anymore. That photo dates to the 1970s. Around 1982 they switched to saying " HOV."

At the risk of going off-topic, do any "HOV 4+" restrictions exist anywhere anymore? From 2002 is this interesting tidbit:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/information/hov/pdfs/hov_sec5.pdf

The U.S.-Mexico border crossing near San Diego (CA) has the only HOV 4+ lanes in North America.

[1995hoo]

The "4 Rider Pool Cars" sign I posted on the first page of this thread became an HOV-4 sign (they didn't start calling for that plus sign until much more recently) around 1982 or 1983 and it was changed to HOV-3 (which it remains) some years later. The other HOV-4 restriction in our area, I-66 inside the Beltway in the peak direction during rush hour, opened in December 1982 but was changed to HOV-3 within a year due to lack of use. It became HOV-2 (which it remains) in early 1995.

I can't think of any HOV-4 I've ever seen anywhere else.

[jeffandnicole]

When there have been issues regarding bridge closures, mass transit strikes, etc, some of the bridges/tunnels going into NYC have been temporary designated as HOV-4 during rush hours.

[JoePCool14]

In terms of old signage, I don't appreciate it like others. Personally I find it old odd, and weird. I'm a Button-copy hater (don't kill me), yet I still hate Clearview. I like my nice FHWA refelective, standard, non IDOT-infected signs. 

[jakeroot]

In terms of old signage, I don't appreciate it like others. Personally I find it old odd, and weird. I'm a Button-copy hater (don't kill me), yet I still hate Clearview. I like my nice FHWA refelective, standard, non IDOT-infected signs. 

You and me both, Joe. We are heretics around these parts. I don't hate Clearview, but I agree on everything else.

[thenetwork]

The only white-on-black signs I saw in abundance was in the St. Louis, MO area back in the late 80s.  I forgot what they were primarily used for, but there were enough of them to grab my attention of their existence.

The only other times I have seen white-on-black were the Virginia speed enforcement (VASCAR) signs at the borders and the occasional NIGHT SPEED LIMIT signs in Colorado.

[talllguy]

I've never noticed a Night Speed Limit sign. Are they common on interstates?

[J N Winkler]

I've never noticed a Night Speed Limit sign. Are they common on interstates?

In Texas--the only state I know of that still uses split day/night speed limits on a large scale--they are.  Split limits used to be much more common elsewhere in the US and a number of states, including Ohio and Washington state, used to have standard speed limit signs that combined both limits in the same message space (nonretroreflective white background, day speed limit in black, night speed limit in retroreflective lettering that was white except where it overlapped the day speed limit digits and so was retroreflective black).

[agentsteel53]

The Superdome opened on August 3, 1975.  Could that sign be dated to then instead of 1966?

probably.  given that the sign indeed says Superdome, then that must be it.  I don't remember who told me 1966.

1975 is very late for a black sign, but I know the city of LA was putting them up as late as 1977 so it's not unheard of.

[agentsteel53]

That sign needs to put out of its misery -- it looks as though it was green and then they painted over it with black. And now, it's wearing off and thus looks terrible.

Also, the sign looks like an a la carte setup. The letters are split up into two or three and then the arrows are all alone as well.

What is up with that? How old is it?

Alps can tell us for sure, but it's on the Turnpike Extension (I-78), which I believe opened in 1956.