The future of the Traffic signal

[Tom895]

What is the future of the Traffic signal?  Well,  with new techologies traffic signals are going to more smarter for driverless cars will able predict how long the red light going to change to green. Traffic signal  will able  share infomation via wireless to driver.

[TEG24601]

I would suspect that within 20-30 years, our traditional traffic signals will be replaced with LED screens, like the variable speed signs, with symbols to indicate the action that traffic should take.  These could simply be squares to replace the existing 3 light installations, or could be an entire billboard sized sign, to make adjustments, give special actions for bikes, relay messages, etc.  Much like the two phase lights were still used in some locations until very recently, it will likely be another 20-40 years before the 3-phase lights are completely replaced.


That being said, I also see a larger number of alternate intersections, mainly roundabouts but perhaps even Michigan Lefts/Superstreets being installed to increase the flow of traffic and reduce the amount of time sitting at lights, and the overall need for traffic signals.

[Revive 755]

I would suspect that within 20-30 years, our traditional traffic signals will be replaced with LED screens, like the variable speed signs, with symbols to indicate the action that traffic should take.  These could simply be squares to replace the existing 3 light installations, or could be an entire billboard sized sign, to make adjustments, give special actions for bikes, relay messages, etc.

I very much doubt that one large screen would replace having three to five separate indications - there's many more ways for that screen to malfunction compared to just having an indication burn out or get stuck on.

I suspect in 30 years traffic signals will pretty much look the same as today, but hopefully function much better with more intelligent controllers/software.

Well,  with new techologies traffic signals are going to more smarter for driverless cars will able predict how long the red light going to change to green.

I have my doubts about that as well.  With today's technology we could easily provide information on how long until the light turns green via a countdown display for many signals.

[JoePCool14]

I would suspect that within 20-30 years, our traditional traffic signals will be replaced with LED screens, like the variable speed signs, with symbols to indicate the action that traffic should take.  These could simply be squares to replace the existing 3 light installations, or could be an entire billboard sized sign, to make adjustments, give special actions for bikes, relay messages, etc.

I very much doubt that one large screen would replace having three to five separate indications - there's many more ways for that screen to malfunction compared to just having an indication burn out or get stuck on.

I suspect in 30 years traffic signals will pretty much look the same as today, but hopefully function much better with more intelligent controllers/software.

Well,  with new techologies traffic signals are going to more smarter for driverless cars will able predict how long the red light going to change to green.

I have my doubts about that as well.  With today's technology we could easily provide information on how long until the light turns green via a countdown display for many signals.

The LED screen idea is also very costly, IDOT doesn't have that kind of money.

[freebrickproductions]

I think the current design will stick around for another 50 years. It's a design that's been proven to work well, and it also allows for the colorblind to be able to tell the indication better. The only thing I see changing about them in the near future is the signals getting thinner because most companies don't provide parts for incandescent signals any more.

[corco]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

Even then in whatever transition period, I'd expect we start retrofitting traffic lights with wireless transmitters, so that adjacent driverless cars know what the signal is and when it will change without having to rely on visual signals. As far as the design itself, those who still drive their own cars would presumably see something that looks the same as it does today.

[Joe The Dragon]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

and then you will need to build pedestrians under / overpasses after that.

[US 41]

Hopefully they are eventually timed better so that you don't have to stop at every light going through town.

[tradephoric]

Hopefully they are eventually timed better so that you don't have to stop at every light going through town.

If i go the posted speed limit, the lights should be timed so that i don't get stopped at a red light.  Simple enough request.  The problem is, the guy in the other direction is thinking the exact same thing.  There are very few roads in America where good two-way progression is even possible.

Typical time distance of a high speed arterial:

[corco]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

and then you will need to build pedestrians under / overpasses after that.

Not necessarily, but maybe. Jaywalking would likely become a lot more dangerous/illegal. Or all humans will have transponders on them that alert adjacent cars that there is a pedestrian around. My smartphone already knows when I'm walking- that technology pretty much exists already. Obviously we're talking 1-200 years out, so who knows, but I do expect robots to have more or less taken over the world from a traffic management perspective, with humans basically doing as the neural hive mind tells us. Just depends on how much free will we're willing to give up in the name of efficiency. Judging by the trends of the last 100 years, I'm not optimistic.

[Alex4897]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

and then you will need to build pedestrians under / overpasses after that.

Not necessarily, but maybe. Jaywalking would likely become a lot more dangerous/illegal. Or all humans will have transponders on them that alert adjacent cars that there is a pedestrian around. My smartphone already knows when I'm walking- that technology pretty much exists already. Obviously we're talking 1-200 years out, so who knows, but I do expect robots to have more or less taken over the world from a traffic management perspective, with humans basically doing as the neural hive mind tells us. Just depends on how much free will we're willing to give up in the name of efficiency. Judging by the trends of the last 100 years, I'm not optimistic.

I'd assume vehicles would still have sensors checking for obstacles ahead, which would include pedestrians whether they be legal or not.

[vdeane]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

and then you will need to build pedestrians under / overpasses after that.

Not necessarily, but maybe. Jaywalking would likely become a lot more dangerous/illegal. Or all humans will have transponders on them that alert adjacent cars that there is a pedestrian around. My smartphone already knows when I'm walking- that technology pretty much exists already. Obviously we're talking 1-200 years out, so who knows, but I do expect robots to have more or less taken over the world from a traffic management perspective, with humans basically doing as the neural hive mind tells us. Just depends on how much free will we're willing to give up in the name of efficiency. Judging by the trends of the last 100 years, I'm not optimistic.

Why stop with transponders?  Imagine a neural-chip in each and every person implanted where the spinal cord meets the brain, providing direct internet access to your brain and telepathic control of anything with a computer chip.  Of course, the downside is that authority could track your every move, read your mind, and even control your actions and re-write your memories.

[Alex4897]

I suspect the eventual, long term result is that they go away entirely. It will probably be easier for driverless cars to communicate with other cars to know where they are and how to flow most efficiently, in a sort of neural network/hive mind, than to design driverless cars that can recognize every single road sign/signal/lane markings/etc, though that requires all/a vast majority of cars to be driverless, so I'd guess that's at least 100 years out. Perhaps manually driven cars will be retrofitted with a HUD or some screen that fills the needs that signs/lane markings/traffic lights do now, with instructions from adjacent auto-cars that guide the human driver to drive safely in a new, computer managed traffic flow.

and then you will need to build pedestrians under / overpasses after that.

Not necessarily, but maybe. Jaywalking would likely become a lot more dangerous/illegal. Or all humans will have transponders on them that alert adjacent cars that there is a pedestrian around. My smartphone already knows when I'm walking- that technology pretty much exists already. Obviously we're talking 1-200 years out, so who knows, but I do expect robots to have more or less taken over the world from a traffic management perspective, with humans basically doing as the neural hive mind tells us. Just depends on how much free will we're willing to give up in the name of efficiency. Judging by the trends of the last 100 years, I'm not optimistic.

Why stop with transponders?  Imagine a neural-chip in each and every person implanted where the spinal cord meets the brain, providing direct internet access to your brain and telepathic control of anything with a computer chip.  Of course, the downside is that authority could track your every move, read your mind, and even control your actions and re-write your memories.

I'm fairly certain there are several movies and TV series explaining why that's a bad idea.

[jakeroot]

A video produced a couple years ago detailing a driverless car intersection:

http://vimeo.com/37751380

(not sure if you can embed Vimeo...can't figure it out)

[roadman65]

The big question is when NYC is going to get rid of the old signal controllers and also start using detector loops like the rest of the world.   Plus start to use mono tube mast arms instead of the double guys that they still even have specially made for them for newer installations even post 9-11 where many mast arms were destroyed by the fall of the towers.

Right now all signals are on set timers, even in Staten Island where the loops could be used as well as parts of the Bronx and Queens.  I know, too, that the double guys are part of nostalgia and it helps near the city's borders to determine if its legal to make a right turn on red despite NYC's unusual default NTOR.  If you see span wire, you know its okay as you are in Nassau or Westchester where its legal, but if you see those double guys you know to stay put until the light turns, but other than those two I think NYC could move forward.

[SidS1045]

The big question is when NYC is going to get rid of the old signal controllers and also start using detector loops like the rest of the world.

How about never?  Does never work for you?

Detection loops, used to trigger traffic signal cycles, are exactly what NYC doesn't need, particularly in the most congested parts of the city.  The free flow of traffic is accomplished, insofar as possible, by *not* allowing side-street traffic to turn a signal red on the main streets.  Until you've lived and driven there, you will not understand.  It's currently possible to traverse Manhattan Island from north to south (or the reverse) in an incredibly short period of time, if you're on a one-way avenue.  Why would you tamper with that?

[jakeroot]

The big question is when NYC is going to get rid of the old signal controllers and also start using detector loops like the rest of the world.

How about never?  Does never work for you?

Detection loops, used to trigger traffic signal cycles, are exactly what NYC doesn't need, particularly in the most congested parts of the city.  The free flow of traffic is accomplished, insofar as possible, by *not* allowing side-street traffic to turn a signal red on the main streets.  Until you've lived and driven there, you will not understand.  It's currently possible to traverse Manhattan Island from north to south (or the reverse) in an incredibly short period of time, if you're on a one-way avenue.  Why would you tamper with that?

Agreed. It drives me nuckin' futs when I'm driving along a 50 mph highway in the country and a car pulls up to a signal and changes it. What a waste of gas! At least have a time-out period, not just instant gratification for the 1% of people using the side road.

[roadman65]

I did not say Manhattan?  In Staten Island and parts of the Bronx if you read the print!  Anyway, as far as equipment goes, they still use the old analogue controllers.  You can still update the equipment and not have the detector loops.

Ans yes, I have driven NYC and its a nightmare already.  I do like the fact you can drive 10th Avenue and go for blocks without hitting a red signal.  True, crosstown is much different, but something has to give.  You cannot have both ways as letting crosstown be the default would then have the avenues be the one's to stop at every block.

The signals, though, on Fifth Avenue could be modified with some mast arms as many intersections use side mounts with one of the two main signal heads on the near side of the intersection.  Now living in Florida where we have the traditional side by side placement of heads, I can tell you having one on the left and the other on the right is better as standard placement is not seen when transiting behind a truck. So opposing mast arms are great in my opinion, but some on that particular artery do not even have them, so NYC should do that there. 

[SidS1045]

I did not say Manhattan?  In Staten Island and parts of the Bronx if you read the print!

Staten Island and the Bronx still have main thoroughfares whose smooth flow would be tanked completely by starting to use detection loops on the side streets.

The signals, though, on Fifth Avenue could be modified with some mast arms as many intersections use side mounts with one of the two main signal heads on the near side of the intersection.  Now living in Florida where we have the traditional side by side placement of heads, I can tell you having one on the left and the other on the right is better as standard placement is not seen when transiting behind a truck. So opposing mast arms are great in my opinion, but some on that particular artery do not even have them, so NYC should do that there.

The signals on Fifth Avenue are deliberately not on mast arms for aesthetic reasons.  Commercial vehicles are banned from Fifth Avenue between 26th and 85th Streets and 86th to 125th Streets, so getting stuck behind a truck and being unable to see the traffic signal in those areas is not an issue.

[mrsman]

I did not say Manhattan?  In Staten Island and parts of the Bronx if you read the print!

Staten Island and the Bronx still have main thoroughfares whose smooth flow would be tanked completely by starting to use detection loops on the side streets.

The signals, though, on Fifth Avenue could be modified with some mast arms as many intersections use side mounts with one of the two main signal heads on the near side of the intersection.  Now living in Florida where we have the traditional side by side placement of heads, I can tell you having one on the left and the other on the right is better as standard placement is not seen when transiting behind a truck. So opposing mast arms are great in my opinion, but some on that particular artery do not even have them, so NYC should do that there.

The signals on Fifth Avenue are deliberately not on mast arms for aesthetic reasons.  Commercial vehicles are banned from Fifth Avenue between 26th and 85th Streets and 86th to 125th Streets, so getting stuck behind a truck and being unable to see the traffic signal in those areas is not an issue.

So commercial traffic is allowed for one block between 85th and 86th?  Why is that?

[vdeane]

Probably because 86th ends at 5th Ave even though it's the major east-west highway for the next few blocks, with 85th taking over that role on the other side of 5th Ave.  Central Park disrupts the grid.

[jakeroot]

Probably because 86th ends at 5th Ave even though it's the major east-west highway for the next few blocks, with 85th taking over that role on the other side of 5th Ave.  Central Park disrupts the grid.

That reminds me...Central Park is a disruptive asshole and needs to be dealt with. I vote for paving it over and building a large soda bottling plant. It will employ thousands of thirsty New Yorkers.

/sarcasm

[6a]

What about this?

http://youtu.be/2_QsY7govq0

[roadfro]

The big question is when NYC is going to get rid of the old signal controllers and also start using detector loops like the rest of the world.

How about never?  Does never work for you?

Detection loops, used to trigger traffic signal cycles, are exactly what NYC doesn't need, particularly in the most congested parts of the city.  The free flow of traffic is accomplished, insofar as possible, by *not* allowing side-street traffic to turn a signal red on the main streets.  Until you've lived and driven there, you will not understand.  It's currently possible to traverse Manhattan Island from north to south (or the reverse) in an incredibly short period of time, if you're on a one-way avenue.  Why would you tamper with that?

Detectors don't necessarily mean that one car pulling up on the side street automatically and immediately turn the major street red.

Modern controllers can be set so that when side street traffic is detected, it will have to wait for a specific point in the cycle before the cross street is served. This aids in progression. With detection, the controller can also be set so if there is no side street traffic detected then the side street phase is completely skipped to allow more time for the main street--on old, timed signal controllers without detection, you must always serve the side street regardless of whether a vehicle is waiting or not. Modern controllers with detection can also skip pedestrian phases if nobody is there to push the button.

Modern controllers also have the benefit of being able to communicate with a central network system to help keep time and coordination plans in sync. For traffic incidents, operators can remotely change the signal settings to help keep traffic flowing. Even if you devise perfect signal timing and progression within a corridor, a electromechanical controller that doesn't properly keep time can cause one signal to fall out of sync and mess up progression along the corridor.

[roadman65]

I agree with this statement.  You can set detectors not to respond immediately!  On Hylan Boulevard on Staten Island and on the Grand Concourse, modern signal technology would help improve the steady flow.

Back to Manhattan, Central Park West has many signals that are on one way streets inward that are only there for pedestrians as the park is to the opposite side of the street.  How much unnecessary stops does one make for nobody even crossing the street vehicle or pedestrian?  You could advance one more block if you have the buttons installed where the pedestrian activates the signal and also it can be delayed till the next cycle for the light on CPW to turn red keeping sync with the rest of the signals.

Like someone once said on this forum how behind in the times NYC is with technology as he pointed out it was rather recently NYC got fiber optic cables installed.  The same with traffic signals I can see and I believe he said the same thing when he posted that.

BTW, those side mount signals on Fifth Avenue look horrible.  Mast arms would improve the look around Rockefeller Center tremendously!  Plus some intersections like at 42nd Street have them already put in place as well as a few other intersections rather recently too.