Flashing brake lights on some trucks

[roadman65]

The other day I was noticing that some vehicles now have in addition to the normal brake lights on the back, that it had a red flashing stop light.

Then again I was leaving my subdivision and thought I saw an accident scene at the intersection outside my community.  However, it was again a work truck, not even a city, state, or construction contractor, but just  a regular private business truck.  It had two additional red lights (LED) that would flash alternatively a bright color when the brake pedal was depressed.

Then much later in the day, I saw a jeep with its third brake light a bright red LED flashing as well.  This vehicle was not a business transport, but a private vehicle.

Is there another change in laws now that we are now going to have to have a flashing red brake light on all of our vehicles just like the present high mount stop light was an addition back in the mid 80's?  If so what purpose is this? 

Like I said it looks from a distance like a fire truck dispatched at a scene or in transit.  Why indeed would we need to cause more misunderstandings and add more useless features to our vehicles as we have plenty already.   That annoying strobe light on school buses for one.  Then thank goodness we have had Lynx Buses in Orlando get rid of their high mount yellow flashers on top of the bus, also created to be an additional brake light that would flash when the bus's brake pedal was depressed as this was causing confusion to cars behind it due to us not knowing if the bus was broken down or picking up passengers instead of just stopped.  Now Lynx has two steady red stoplights on the top of the rear of the bus where those false emergency flashers once were.

Hopefully this will be a bust and not live long as I guarantee that many people will think that accident scenes will be taking place at every intersection, or worse yet people will think actual emergency vehicles will be stopped cars.

[jeffandnicole]

I've seen something similar on mass transit buses as well.  It gets your attention...which I guess is the point of the quick flash.

[roadman]

Interesting.  When NHTSA was doing the original field studies on the third brake light, one version of the light they tested was flashing.  As I recall, the studies showed no statistical difference in driver reaction to the steady light vs. the flashing light.  So the steady light (which was easier to implement at the time) was adopted as the standard.

Could it be that, almost 30 years later, the third brake light has lost its effectiveness because drivers have become so used to seeing it.  And that this might be a way to increase the effectiveness of the light?

[agentsteel53]

Could it be that, almost 30 years later, the third brake light has lost its effectiveness because drivers have become so used to seeing it.  And that this might be a way to increase the effectiveness of the light?

what happens when we get used to that?  giant foam novelty hand?

[on_wisconsin]

Flashing break lights (on any motor vehicle) are somewhat common outside of North America.

[jakeroot]

Flashing break lights (on any motor vehicle) are somewhat common outside of North America.

The key is, only under heavy braking. And after a few strobes, they go back to a steady red.

I can't verify the authenticity of this thread on City-Data, but one user indicates that he saw two new Mazda CX-5s with flashing CHMSLs. This was back in March. I would assume that if it was true, and all new Mazda CX-5s had this feature, the thread would be longer than ten posts.

[bassoon1986]

Our 2011 Toyota Corolla has this feature. I haven't seen it much on other vehicles between living in Dallas when we bought the car 2 years ago and now in central Louisiana. To me, it does seem to catch my attention although I consider myself to be an attentive driver already.

[roadman]

On a related note, has anybody noticed the new turn signals on the back end of some cars that have a red LED brake light 'ringed' around the amber turn light?  To my eye, it is outrageously distracting and defeats the whole point of having a separate amber turn signal on the back.

[roadman65]

Hey its better than those clear stop lights that some foreign cars were using in the late 90's that had a red bulb inside of it instead.  How soon the law got after people who used them that it did not take long to go back to the red reflective cover as it always was.

The purpose of the red lens is so your headlights reflect off of them at night when the other car is parked or sitting still with the motor off at railroad grades.  The manufacturer did not think that one out when they decided to change that one out.  However, I am glad that either the states or feds passed the law over turning that one.

[jakeroot]

Hey its better than those clear stop lights that some foreign cars were using in the late 90's that had a red bulb inside of it instead.  How soon the law got after people who used them that it did not take long to go back to the red reflective cover as it always was.

You mean like this 2015 Toyota Sienna?

[Pete from Boston]

People turn the lights off when stopped at railroad grades at night?  What the hell is in the drinking water in Florida? 

[Scott5114]

I don't really care for automatically flashing brake lights, since I would tend to interpret it as a warning that something particularly drastic is happening ahead. I will sometimes manually flash my brake lights (i.e. tap the brake pedal) when I am in a situation that someone coming up behind me might need to give extra attention to, like when I'm the last car on a slow-moving exit ramp queue that has backed up onto the mainline.

[SteveG1988]

I personally feel that having amber turn signals is safer, since it not only is brighter than red, but it is also easier to differentiate what the person is doing at that moment. Plus, having it as a seperate bulb versus a combined one means that it is less likely to burn out.

Also, NHSTA has a rule, is it cost effective to incorperate a safety feature. For example airbags were too expensive until the late 90s to mandate, but they did mandate passive restraint, which could either be automatic seatbelts or airbags. the CHMSL is so cheap to intergrate that even though the effectiveness of it has degraded, it still saves some life.

[spooky]

People turn the lights off when stopped at railroad grades at night?  What the hell is in the drinking water in Florida? 

Seriously. People say it's God's Waiting Room because of the old people, but it seems that Darwinism plays a role as well.

[roadman]

Hey its better than those clear stop lights that some foreign cars were using in the late 90's that had a red bulb inside of it instead.  How soon the law got after people who used them that it did not take long to go back to the red reflective cover as it always was.

You mean like this 2015 Toyota Sienna?

Clear lens with colored bulb arrangements normally have a colored reflector built into the housing as well.  The front and rear turn signals on my 2012 Focus have clear lenses, but amber bulbs and reflectors.  The bulb hitting off the reflector gives better light output than the colored lens used to.  For example, when I'm preparing to exit a freeway at night, I can see the reflection of the turn signal in the overhead BGS - even if the sign is 15 years old.

[roadman65]

People turn the lights off when stopped at railroad grades at night?  What the hell is in the drinking water in Florida? 

I did not mean to say that they do that, but using it as other reasons why the red reflector is needed in addtion to a car being parked.

FYI in the older days, people did used to turn the engines off at draw bridges and railroad grades to conserve fuel.  Of course many would leave their headlights on, as so would I as  to avoid being rear ended.  There were, incidentally, folks who turned their lights out completely for whatever reason they have.   That is freaky and I would be afraid to do that myself.

You also have stalled cars that cannot even use the emergency flashers either.  For instance your electrical system fails you will not have power for that and believe me I saw a stalled vehicle on a freeway once that was that way.   Even though the reflectors do not work totally, the principle behind them is to be seen. 

Then of course you have that occasional person with tail lights that are not working, but his headlights and front lights do work, where the reflector does bring your attention to the fact he is there in front of you.

[Pete from Boston]

I'll turn the car off if I know the line has 100-car trains, but not the lights. 

I do appreciate the possibility of losing power, as I had a faulty battery connection strand me where I was stopped at a light on a busy highway.  However, I also carry two reflective triangles.

[jeffandnicole]

Then of course you have that occasional person with tail lights that are not working, but his headlights and front lights do work, where the reflector does bring your attention to the fact he is there in front of you.

Then you have the more-than-occasional incident where someone has DRLs and starts driving at night, forgetting to turn on all their lights.  I finally saw someone get pulled over for this. 

[roadman]

Then you have the more-than-occasional incident where someone has DRLs and starts driving at night, forgetting to turn on all their lights.  I finally saw someone get pulled over for this. 

When I first got my 2012 Focus, I would ocassionally forget to turn my lights on at night (usually after stopping at a store mid-route) because the instrument lights come on automatically when you start the car (which my 15 year old Contour didn't do).  Heven't been pulled over (knocks wood) for it yet though.

[agentsteel53]

I hate when lights turn on, but I hate it even more when lights don't turn off.  I've turned off the ignition.  I've turned off the light switch.  I've taken the keys out.  I'm walking away from the vehicle - when will the lights finally turn off???

[Pete from Boston]

With all of this technology, I wish that someone would finally implement a system by which the car can tell that there is oncoming traffic, and dim the high beams that the ignorant driver has lazily left on.  I feel like this problem has grown over recent years, though I cannot pinpoint why.  I also feel like drivers are far less attentive to things like a blast of high beams in their direction to call attention to the problem.

[Roadrunner75]

I had a Corolla that had automatic headlights that could not be disabled.  Very frustrating, if for some reason I wanted to turn the lights off.  My later cars have had the option to disable them - my Camry even had a 'DRL Off' setting which was the only way to disable the automatic lights.  With the Camry, I never used the auto lights feature and would either have everything, including the DRLs off, or turn them on manually at night.

[jakeroot]

I haven't touched my lights since I bought my car in late 2011. Still on auto...still working. On the rare occasion that I do turn them off (drive-thrus mostly), I always forget to turn them back on (so I get rude gestures the whole way home until I finally realize my infantile error).

Interestingly, as some of you might know, I do valet for a local hotel, which means I work with headlights on a daily basis. Some of new models seem to have a feature where there isn't an auto setting for the lower-end models, but where the headlights will turn off when the car is locked using the fob or smart key, even if the lights are set to "on". A little confusing, but I'm getting used to it. I recall the current-gen Elantra ('14 to present) have this feature.



Not related to the above conversation...

North America (minus Mexico) is the only place where I've seen amber headlamp reflectors (not just bulbs) required for the front indicators, but not for the rear (where the brake-light can flash for the indicator). In all other jurisdictions across the globe, the opposite is true: front headlamps need not have amber reflectors for the indicator (all that's required is an amber bulb), but the rear must have a flashing amber indicator.

Here's the front-end of the everywhere-else-spec Hyundai Sonata (on the left), compared to the USA/Canada spec on the right. Notice the difference?

[roadman65]

With all of this technology, I wish that someone would finally implement a system by which the car can tell that there is oncoming traffic, and dim the high beams that the ignorant driver has lazily left on.  I feel like this problem has grown over recent years, though I cannot pinpoint why.  I also feel like drivers are far less attentive to things like a blast of high beams in their direction to call attention to the problem.

My dad's Lincoln Town Car had one that automatically put on the high beams when no glare was detected and as soon as a car would approach the other way would dim itself all via a sensor on the back of the rear view mirror.

It gave him problems at times and would never turn out the brights, which is obvious why this feature never took off.  I know that you mean we have one that takes control of theirs, but if we were to perfect that one right and have it on every car, we would not have the problem.

To answer your question why people do not react any more to the tap of the beams is probably the same reason why people nowadays make abrupt lane changes like it is nothing and should be allowed.  You would figure that one person every now and then would be doing this, but it is everywhere and almost one out of every 20 cars on the road do it.  I cannot pin point why either, but nonetheless life is full of mysteries which most happen on the road.

[Brian556]

I recently saw a DCTA bus with amber/blue flashing brake lights. This is the color combination used for warning lights on DOT and contractor trucks around here. Completely ridiculous on a bus.

Flashing brake lights need to be banned unless they only flash during hard braking. The middle brake light should have manual flash option for traffic stopping on a rural freeway.

The middle brake light is way more important at night. In the daytime, the two primary brake lights are sufficient to me, and are more visible. At night, however, if the middle brake light is out, it can be rather difficult to discern whether a vehicle is braking or not. The cops really need to start pulling over people who don't have them working for that very reason.

Just a thought...it might be a good idea to make brake lights another color such as purple so that they are more obvious at night. Now that LED lights are becoming common, it would be feasible to have purple brake light LED's in the same light section as the tail light.

Rear turn signals should be required to be amber. The color difference is a big issue when the flashers are used at night. Red flashers suck. Even though they are flashing, they still blend in with all the taillights of other vehicles.

In my opinion, some of the newer cars have brake lights with too little surface are illuminated. There needs to be a minimum.

It makes no sense that our government allows vehicles to have different color rear turn signals, and allows vehicles to be made without daytime running lights. We need much more stringent and consistent vehicle lighting standards.